MRCA conteders narrowed to Eurofighter and Rafael: IAF

[ganimi kawa]

^^very likely to be a speculation !

The acid test will be the follow up article that she has promised.

 

[dbc]

European jets may contain American parts but it is better than buying an American jet.

better? in what way?

 

[Ras]

better? in what way?

I guess a Gripen without the engine is better than a F-18!!

 

[sancho]

India does not sell or share her fighters so what is the big deal?

Exaclty, then why don't you provide the radar source codes?
Why are inspection of the fighters need?

Don't you thrust us? Why should we?

Unlike what DBCs theory says, it has nothing to do with lack of confidence, it is just the opposite, we don't want to be treated just like any other export countries we want more than usual, more ToT to improve our own developments, offsets to improve the indigenous industry with JV and participations, less restrictions to be not dependent on other countries.
So we know exactly what we want and now it's on you to show how much you can compromise to your usual dealings, with other export countries. The Russians and Europeans already offers what we asked for, so the ball is in your hand to offer at least something comparable.

 

[dbc]

I guess a Gripen without the engine is better than a F-18!!

Better is a relative term, I'm interested to see what the IAF and the Indian government consider better. Each of the contenders come with strengths and weakness in certain areas. On pure technical consideration, I'd pick the F-16, F-18 or Rafale. Of the three, the Rafale represents the biggest technical risk from a technology maturity point of view and I believe it will be more expensive to own and operate.

 

[flanker143]

sorry guys for unintentionally derailing the thread......this all started with my little joke which wasn't meant to hurt anyone ....

 

[Dash]

Why are we so much afraid of sanctions from US?.
havent we changed our policies to the west?, and if we have then we shouldnt be afraid of sanctions...

India is not a country anymore to be bullied..

 

[redpearl75]

Well, to that I'd like to say that when it comes to technology F-16 and F/A 18 E/F are good but can not be relied upon completely as both the aircrafts are almost 30 years old since the time it got inducted. No matter what it has to offer I personally don't find either of these aircraft up to the mark. On top of that there is a very high possibility of US putting up several sanctions upon the Indian government in future and none of us are 100% sure bout it weather US will put those or not. And if that’s the case then possibly the entire fleet will be grounded if IAF goes for either F16 or 18s. If not the entire fleet but still we can not risk such a situation as it has happened in the past. US is still not completely a reliable source for acquiring military hardware when it comes to a deal like this. As India seeks a complete assistance in this acquisition. Though the US govt has already stated that whichever aircraft is selected, the entire technology transfer will be there including the complete assistance and technology transfer of the Hughes APG-73 or Raytheon APG-79 radar. But still F/A 18 E/F is an underpowered aircraft but no doubt is one of the best contenders. Im putting the F 16 out of the complete race as there’s no point in keeping an aircraft which has already reached it’s maturity and can barely be upgraded in the coming future.

---------- Post added at 11:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 AM ----------

On the other hand the Swedish Gripen is an ultra light aircraft and should not be considered in this race though has great many features in it. It’s maximum weapon load is close to around 7200 kgs which is really and amazing a deciding fact as it’s close to that of F 16, F/A 18 and, the Eurofighter also more than that of the Mig 35 which is around 6000 Kgs. The real impressing fact about the Gripen is that carrying such a load of weapons it’s MTOW is some 16.5 Ts making it the lightest and the most potent aircraft in this race. Saab and Selex Galileo signed an agreement for joint development of the Raven AESA radar based on Selex Galileo's AESA Vixen and PS-05/A. Sounds good to me. Gripen with that combination is the best contender.

---------- Post added at 11:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:44 AM ----------

Now we also have the Eurofighter which I think will be a complete waste of money as it’s a very expensive fighter though very good indeed still very expensive with a price tag of 91.2 Million $ for what it has to offer equivalent of two Gripens that is., 48 million $. Whereas the Rafael comes with a price tag of around 67.2 Million $. There’s no doubt in the fact that Eurofighter is technologically very advanced and has many added features but the biggest turn offs with it is the price tag. Still if it gets selected, I’ll be more than happy but I am completely in favor of the Rafael though. A good combination of Rafael and the Gripen will be the best to have.

 

[redpearl75]

We are not afraid of the US sanctions but it’s just the fact that if there are any sanctions in the future what we can possibly do? Sue US for that…? Cant… And why is there a need to go for something that’s already at it’s maturity in terms of technology. F/A 18 is a great aircraft but it’s underpowered and is not suitable for the IAF as per the requirements we have. India is not afraid of the sanctions but it is of obsolesce which currently is the major problem rite now.

 

[Tejas-MkII]

I would suggest go for 200 and divide them b/w EF and Rafale.

EF:126
Rafale:74

yeah, yeah .. i know there is no split of order and all those stuff but that is not the hardwritten which we have to follow.

Now if we go for above configuration there is lot benefit we can get.

First there will be commonality b/w LCA-MkII and Ef if EJ get chossen.

Also french have some say in EADS and they are involve in Meteor projet which go to both EF and Raf,so common weapon.

Also IN go for their seperate MMRCA and they can very well chose Rafa.,then no. for Rafa will go to about 120.With this no. of Rafa we can very much indulge french into the kaveri project and develope that for further variant of LCA,MCA and even Rafa.

Another thing will be speedy delivery with two production sources and HAL we can induct all these fighter around 2022.

As far as maintenance and logistic we can ask both the vendors to have common radar,IRST,EW,etc...,as much as possible.

And all these goodies will be going into LCA to some extent so it will further decrease the logistic issue.

Well all n all it all can be mere speculation....

 

[Dash]

We are not afraid of the US sanctions but it’s just the fact that if there are any sanctions in the future what we can possibly do? Sue US for that…? Cant… And why is there a need to go for something that’s already at it’s maturity in terms of technology. F/A 18 is a great aircraft but it’s underpowered and is not suitable for the IAF as per the requirements we have. India is not afraid of the sanctions but it is of obsolesce which currently is the major problem rite now.

Hi Readperl75

I wasnt talking about F-18s at all, Its certainly not the best.
What I am talking about is, if there were again sanctions (which is unlikely), then it could be anywhere.

Apart from a fighter jet we have so much in our inventory already which can plague the system. what do we currently use for precission bombing, GPS?, is that sanction proof?, what if you will be given wrong co-ordinates and it it true they can, during a war and you go bomb some civilian building??....then repercations??

sanctions can come in many form.

As far as F-18 is considered, its a bomber basically and not a fighter. So thats out of question, look at its G-load factor and you will come to know, why we dont want it. and you also will agree with me so no problem

 

[redpearl75]

Last but not the least the mighty Mig 35 which the Russians claim is the best variant of the MIG 29 family with much more powerful engines, a whole new package of avionics, increased weapon load, and options to get it upgraded with avionics package form other nations as well. Though it’s the closest to what the IAF currently operates and will be very much familiar with the aircrafts but still I thing it’s high time that IAF looks out apart for the Russians. Though they have been a great supporter and arms provider and has helped us in lot many ways developing what we already have but at the price tag of 38 Million$ it’s again a great deal to look for. But I will say that these 126 fighters should contain a mix of at least 2 different fighters. Let’s keep our fingers crossed and wait and watch what happens….

 

[jha]

Although this is also a speculation but i dont think US will let go of such a lucrative deal to Europeans so easily...Europeans are ahead because of their offers..EADS has offered a partnership..who knows what will obama offer..Maybe the shelved engine for F-35 ( not my idea )...

A lot of maneuvering is left..lets see who wins this dogfight..

 

[Dash]

Maybe the shelved engine for F-35 ( not my idea )...

Is that true?

 

[jha]

Is that true?

I knew this question will be raised..
Bhai saab this is not my speculation..someone in other forum had this thought and i found it a probable option....