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Modi indirectly admits superiority of Pakistan’s air force

There was no US equipment used during PAF missions.

As for F-35 you already know the answer. Nummer one we cannot afford them. Number two even if we could the Americans don’t want to provide F-16s. You do the math on F-35.
Thats why I said, try to do strategic bargaining and come out of this non-sense of A/B/C PEC.
 
After Allah Almighty, we should silently thank Yankees for the recent successes of PAF (TPS77, Vera-E, Aim120, F16, ALQ Jammers,...). Please do not forget our AF was and still organized along the lines of USAF, and we still have alot of doctrinal commonalities.

Only If I may, could I suggest to mend ties with Americans and try to do as much strategic bargaining as possible. The only real solution to Rafale + S400 combo, in my opinion, is this

FFS the Americans will never sell one of their most advanced weapon systems to Pakistan (and thereby China to trawl and inspect) :hitwall::hitwall:
 
After delayed tejas program, they have to keep numbers filled and used Mig21 as Inceptors.
But according to india media 24 PAF jets came, so how they went back unharmed in the presence of SAMs & Mig2000 &, Sukhui near border. ???

That's what I keep thinking. On one hand United States, France and U.K were backing India yet their "HIGH END" War-Machine was no where to be seen. What REALLY happened to their SAM's on a bright sunny morning? Perhaps they're collecting dust or probably went up in ashes. After all PAF sent a RAID party. RIP bharti military

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:sleep:
 
Thats why I said, try to do strategic bargaining and come out of this non-sense of A/B/C PEC.

We are not doing any bargains. Those days have long gone. Pakistan suffers immensely as a result. We cannot give the Americans what they want. It undermines Pak interests. Besides, we have to remain loyal to ourselves. We have to think long term and not short term.

China fulfills Pak requirements perfectly. That too without strings and conditions.
 
I think we now need to take stock of our preparation, and rather than chest thumping be really vigilant. This war was not started by us but if they cross over we will finish them with the blessing of Allah. However we need to adopt humility in victory as Allah does not like boasting. A muslim believes victory and defeat are from Allah the most high and mighty so we should prepare hard and then look towards HIM for success insha Allah.
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Bro the professional soldiers in the Armed forces have not chest thumped, they have gone back to their plans and training
 
A bad workman always blames his tools.

Big success for Pakistan. Just goes to show money and quantity isn't everything.

If only skill,bravery etc was for sale.

You can buy a capable machine but you cannot buy skill, knowledge of your and enemies fighter plane's strength and limitations and fighter doctrines.

Even the F-22 will go down if faced in an extremely un-favourable scenario, piloted by an in-experienced commander filled with blind jingoism with an average sortie rates.
 
No. While the MKI is definitely a formidable aircraft its maintenance & operational costs are a nightmare. Even the Russians didn't produce much of them for their own air force. They capped it at ~120 jets in favour of Su-35. IAF is right when it says it needs another frontline aircraft. They need something that is relatively spending more time in the air than on the ground at a lesser cost. My belief is they'll immediately cap the MKI programme if it has not been done so by now once Rafales are inducted. Of course, 36 won't do. They'll have to place more orders. Lockheed would like India to cap Rafale at 36 & buy their F-16/F-21 jets as their international sales overall, not just that of F-16s, have been severely limited over the years. IAF needs at least 100 more multirole jets that would replace not just the legacy jets but would be there to fill in space of Mirage-2000s and MiG-29s after their retirement in 15 to 20 years time (at least).

Problem with Rafale is that it was controversially eliminated in the Indian MMRCA competition then controversially brought back into the race, & even more controversially won the tender. If I were to select I would have chosen Gripens. They are cost effective to be procured in large numbers. India could have easily had 200 of them alongside American weapons, such as AMRAAM.

While we joke about the LCA programme, it is indeed sensible for India to build an indigenous jet that serves this purpose. The Mark-II programme, if managed effectively, can do a good job, just as JF-17 has done. What the Indian government needs to do is reduce the strict civil-scientific bureaucratic control over HAL's production & appoint senior IAF & IN officials to oversee the development of LCA Mark-II. IAF & IN should be the primary organizations to conduct capability assessments, not HAL or DRDO.

Brilliant note.

Among other very sharp insights is your remark about the Gripen; it is a mystery why it was not chosen years ago, at around the same time that the Hungarians chose it. The IAF would have been sitting pretty by now.

I could not agree more with your post. Especially the bits about HAL.
 
Really impressive support they have extended to us during the recent crisis. Isnt it. Amazing...

We don’t doubt China’s support and intent. When the rest looked the other way China has always stood side by side with Pakistan. There are only a handful of countries that belong in the China tier as far as Pakistan is concerned.
 
We don’t doubt China’s support and intent. When the rest looked the other way China has always stood side by side with Pakistan. There are only a handful of countries that belong in the China tier as far as Pakistan is concerned.
If you talk about standing with us, its and will be only the Turks and nobody else.
 
If you talk about standing with us, its and will be only the Turks and nobody else.

Turkey has always stood by us and is a brother, but China has also stood by us and included us in their strategic programmes
 

VERY catty.

What Pakistan has shown in this short engagement is that its Air Force highly motivated and very well trained.

So India needs motivation and highly skilled training to counter PAF. No matter which platform they have including Rafale, they are no match to Pakistani pilots. This is not a boast. This is just stating fact.

Indian Air Force is very demoralized after Wednesday. They have replaced their Air Chief of the Kashmir airspace. This in itself is an admission of failure regardless of what their media pukes.

Check his date of birth.
 
Turkey has always stood by us and is a brother, but China has also stood by us and included us in their strategic programmes
Bro, I am really dissapointed by the diplomatic (non)support of China during the current crisis. At least they could have shown a bit more tilt towards us.

I think, Turks should be our main avenue for the western hi tech weapons and training support of our armed forces. Also just in the selfish self interest, we should try to get back in touch with Americans. They are, and will be the master of military tech for the foreseeable future. Its really unfortunate that our interests came on a collision course some time after 9/11. But we, just for the sake of Pakistan's interest, if not for any bon-homie, should try to get in terms with Yankees and bargain as hard we can.

Well, these are my thoughts based on the recent developments, both on military and diplomatic fronts.
 

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