Military's role in the identity of Pakistan

[INDIC]

Yes Doda is outside of kashmir valley, but the kashmiris have historically colonized that area and make significant part of the population there and maintain their kashmiri/kashur language and culture in regions such as kishtwar which is indeed outside kashmir valley. Your former minister Ghulam nabi azad is a pure kashmiri (kashur speaking) from Doda district who has been elected MP from that area many times I believe.

Ghulam Nabi Azad is always referred as Jammuite and not as a Kashmiri in political circles of Jammu and Kashmir.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Where did I state that Rajas are light people? Stop being so insecure of your looks man. On average, Potoharis and Rajas for that matter are a few tones lighter than Punjabis. Have you ever been to Potohar, or ever seen a real Raja? Kammis from Potohar claim to be Rajas sometimes.

Our english teacher in FSC was a raja, i must say he was quite light skinned with good facial features.

 

[livingdead]

@Karla M did you get enough material here and how will you know who to trust and who not to?
I hope you use other material and use this forum posts as secondary source.

 

[ghoul]

Where did i call raja kami? Point me towards post, give me post number in this thread. Its not hard to locate one post it is? Ghakkars are not rajputs, i dont know what they call themselves now. Historically ghakkars were never under rajput umbrella.

Earlier it was the brahmins who allocated race/titles. Now it's Sayyids. For example Pir Pagara declared Bhuttos to be Araeeins, which is why a lot of people think of Benazir Bhutto as an araeein, but Bhuttos themselves claim a jat/rajput origin. I think it all came down to the caste system. To be classified as a rajput, I believe you had to belong to the "kshatriya" caste, i'e no farming or business running. Jatts are renowned farmers, hence did not get labelled rajputs. Another example is that of the Chauhans of Rajasthan. They were originally white huns or scythians, but got "transformed" into rajputs by lighting a ritual fire on the mount abu. The indian rajputs would know of this.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Not sure about gujjars, but afghanis are always called beggars, tandoor owners and back-stabbing beghairats.

hmmm...,O.K

 

[Sugarcane]

Again same medieval debate - I guess OP started thread for some other purpose

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

Earlier it was the brahmins who allocated race/titles. Now it's Sayyids. For example Pir Pagara declared Bhuttos to be Araeeins, which is why a lot of people think of Benazir Bhutto as an araeein, but Bhuttos themselves claim a jat/rajput origin. I think it all came down to the caste system. To be classified as a rajput, I believe you had to belong to the "kshatriya" caste, i'e no farming or business running. Jatts are renowned farmers, hence did not get labelled rajputs. Another example is that of the Chauhans of Rajasthan. They were originally white huns or scythians, but got "transformed" into rajputs by lighting a ritual fire on the mount abu. The indian rajputs would know of this.

Actually there is very good proof of Bhuttos being punjabis arains. Now only after few generations they have shifted their identity to Sindhi. Punjabi Khatris/sheikh are also Kshatriyas historically but now known for business.

Syed don't give titles because jats, arain, gujjars are not titles like rajput. Don't confuse Syeds with brahmins who used to give titles.

 

[ghoul]

hmmm...,O.K

Sir, if you want respect then give respect. You can't call everyone in Punjab names, and biddati and stuff and then expect any respect for yourself.

 

[Karla M]

@Karla M did you get enough material here and how will you know who to trust and who not to?
I hope you use other material and use this forum posts as secondary source.

there are so many new elements... like tribes, clans etc that I didn't even consider before, ... I can do a deeper research on them from scientific papers ...at least now i know there is a huge diversity and i cannot speak of one and only "identity"

like I said I am not used to all these names of ethnicities, languages, tribes that you're so familiar with...
to be honest, im a bit embarrassed to recognize that i basically know nothing

 

[ghoul]

Actually there is very good proof of Bhuttos being punjabis arains. Now only after few generations they have shifted their identity to Sindhi. Punjabi Khatris/sheikh are also Kshatriyas historically but now known for business.

BB called herself a rajput from Rajasthan though.

 

[Shahmir]

BB called herself a rajput from Rajasthan though.

BB was a big liar, she was half-iranian she hardly knew about castes and tribes. If she had done some research then she would have known that her grandfather Shahnawaz Bhutto has been reported to have chaired All india Arain organization as being member of arain community.

 

[Karla M]

Again same medieval debate - I guess OP started thread for some other purpose

I think my big mistake was to name "Punjabization" to this thread....

What i actually wanted was to discuss the elements that i should put in the chapter of Punjab....

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

BB called herself a rajput from Rajasthan though.

Then what her grand father was doing in All India Arain conference before partiton? Now they will never accept their punjabi arain origin.

While BB is Half-Kurd and Half Punjabi Arain. Accepting punjabi origin is political sucide for their politics. Other provinces are not like Punjab where Kashmiri origin, and Pashtun origin are leaders of major parties in Punjab. And Arains are Punjabi exclusive groups, hardly if any arain in Sindh. So they had to claim some other origin.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Sir, if you want respect then give respect. You can't call everyone in Punjab names, and biddati and stuff and then expect any respect for yourself.

I dont expect and demand respect from unknown people on internet. I dont mind the way you express your views against Afghans, its good thing that you are frank and not politically correct. I am not here to distribute gulab jamans or making friends, i want "responses".

 

[livingdead]

there are so many new elements... like tribes, clans etc that I didn't even consider before, ... I can do a deeper research on them from scientific papers ...at least now i know there is a huge diversity and i cannot speak of one and only "identity"

like I said I am not used to all these names of ethnicities, languages, tribes that you're so familiar with...
to be honest, im a bit embarrassed to recognize that i basically know nothing

dont be embarassed, you probably know more now than any non pakistani in western hemisphere
and frankly many people from neighbouring countries(Indians or chinese or afgans) wont know a great deal either about these clan things.