Military's role in the identity of Pakistan

[Karla M]

Very interesting, your history resembles ours in many ways ie the imposition of apartheid by outsiders in our case a tribe known as the aryans (Not Nordic) .Well basically the prominent tribes of punjab (ones who own land , well represented in the army) are the MEZITO of punjab, and the low caste tribes, whose paternal heritage is from this land, they in many ways are under represented in all important aspects of life ie politics, the military (in pak military on your enrollment form you are asked to state your caste, if one is a Kammi(low caste) then more than likely his origins will preclude him from having a succesful career). Even though i am not familiar with the dynamics of mexican society i presume the pure aztecs and maya are under represented in government institiuitons and have little of the national wealth.
You also made a point about how some mexican would give a speech about how proud they are of their mezito origin, but they would probably not have a clue to which civilization they have connections too, nothing could be more true of the indian subcontinent where almost every prominent tribe claims aryan or arab descent, when most of them are actually descended from obscure uncultured central asian tribes like the scythians and many other invaders from beyond the hindu kush.
One final point i read some where, a lot of romani gypsies from spain and portugal emigrated to south america especially to brazil, out of curiosity do you know if there was any significant migration to mexico.

there are aztecs no more... either killed or mixed and now mestizos...
maybe a way to see is:

Mexican-- Nationality which includes:

• mestizos -- one ethnicity (mixture of spanish and local civilization) +90% of population (even though we have no idea of our background, we just know we're the result of mixture! so most of us, we know we cant claim to have ancenstry to an specific one) .... so the mexican state education, completely disregarding the rest of castes, (each caste depended of the % of european ancestry) and put them all on this one Mestizos... to create one and only Mexican Identity with a common history trait: being conquested by spain
• indigenas -- the other 60 ethnicities who didnt mix ... and somehow---some of those 60-- unwilling to identify or participate in any kind of Mexican institution...(army, education, society) they just kind of want to be left alone and not to be stolen..maybe some they'll accept if being asked that they're mexican just because they are born under the mexican territory ..but they do not have the feeling of belonging...

Uhmmm.... I dont think it was a significant migration to Mexico, but in my city, you once in a while see some of them... small communities only...

 

[Icewolf]

Karla M sorry for your thread derailment by Indians and I hope you do good on ur project

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

there are aztecs no more... either killed or mixed and now mestizos...
maybe a way to see is:

Mexican-- Nationality which includes:

• mestizos -- one ethnicity (mixture of spanish and local civilization) +90% of population (even though we have no idea of our background, we just know we're the result of mixture! so most of us, we know we cant claim to have ancenstry to an specific one) .... so the mexican state education, completely disregarding the rest of castes, (each caste depended of the % of european ancestry) and put them all on this one Mestizos... to create one and only Mexican Identity with a common history trait: being conquested by spain
• indigenas -- the other 60 ethnicities who didnt mix ... and somehow---some of those 60-- unwilling to identify or participate in any kind of Mexican institution...(army, education, society) they just kind of want to be left alone and not to be stolen..maybe some they'll accept if being asked that they're mexican just because they are born under the mexican territory ..but they have the feeling of belonging...

Uhmmm.... I dont think it was a significant migration to Mexico, but in my city, you once in a while see some of them... small communities only...

what he said is pretty dumb...we have dozens of ethnicities... Pakhtun,Baluch have Iranic origin... than there are tribes/clans in punjab who have similiar origin and migrated here hundreds of years ago... n lost most of their native culture,languages,traditions (some are still followed).... than the hazaras who came from northern afghanistan in the 17-18th centuries... the kashmiris again indo-aryan+central asian origin... the ppl from gilgit baltistan share more culture with central asia .. as they lie between china n central asia...

There is no proof of aryan invasion... that happened thousands of years ago.... ? no proof.. except ancient civilisations like indus,harrapa,mohenjodaro,ghandhara or mahrgarh... these are all theories..


p.s: i feel sorry for the proud Aztec n Mayan ppl... who were massacred by spanish for gold etc...they destroyed them..

 

[Karla M]

what he said is pretty dumb...we have dozens of ethnicities... Pakhtun,Baluch have Iranic origin... than there are tribes/clans in punjab who have similiar origin and migrated here hundreds of years ago... n lost most of their native culture,languages,traditions (some are still followed).... than the hazaras who came from northern afghanistan in the 17-18th centuries... the kashmiris again indo-aryan+central asian origin... the ppl from gilgit baltistan share more culture with central asia .. as they lie between china n central asia...

There is no proof of aryan invasion... that happened thousands of years ago.... ? no proof.. except ancient civilisations like indus,harrapa,mohenjodaro,ghandhara or mahrgarh... these are all theories..


p.s: i feel sorry for the proud Aztec n Mayan ppl... who were massacred by spanish for gold etc...they destroyed them..

thanks for sympathy with our old civilizations i appreciate it ...

Yes... this is what keeps confusing me about Pakistan... ethnicities., tribes, clans...
i cant seem to keep up whenever it's debated

Is it actually a big deal in Pakistan belonging to these tribes and clans? or is it just here because it's a forum and it's meant for debate?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

thanks for sympathy with our old civilizations i appreciate it ...

Yes... this is what keeps confusing me about Pakistan... ethnicities., tribes, clans...
i cant seem to keep up whenever it's debated

Is it actually a big deal in Pakistan belonging to these tribes and clans? or is it just here because it's a forum and it's meant for debate?

just another pissing contest.... its almost kaput in real life apart from conservative families.. who at max dont marry outside...but no racism or any other nonsense..

 

[django]

there are aztecs no more... either killed or mixed and now mestizos...
maybe a way to see is:

Mexican-- Nationality which includes:

• mestizos -- one ethnicity (mixture of spanish and local civilization) +90% of population (even though we have no idea of our background, we just know we're the result of mixture! so most of us, we know we cant claim to have ancenstry to an specific one) .... so the mexican state education, completely disregarding the rest of castes, (each caste depended of the % of european ancestry) and put them all on this one Mestizos... to create one and only Mexican Identity with a common history trait: being conquested by spain
• indigenas -- the other 60 ethnicities who didnt mix ... and somehow---some of those 60-- unwilling to identify or participate in any kind of Mexican institution...(army, education, society) they just kind of want to be left alone and not to be stolen..maybe some they'll accept if being asked that they're mexican just because they are born under the mexican territory ..but they have the feeling of belonging...

Uhmmm.... I dont think it was a significant migration to Mexico, but in my city, you once in a while see some of them... small communities only...

there are aztecs no more... either killed or mixed and now mestizos...
maybe a way to see is:

Mexican-- Nationality which includes:

• mestizos -- one ethnicity (mixture of spanish and local civilization) +90% of population (even though we have no idea of our background, we just know we're the result of mixture! so most of us, we know we cant claim to have ancenstry to an specific one) .... so the mexican state education, completely disregarding the rest of castes, (each caste depended of the % of european ancestry) and put them all on this one Mestizos... to create one and only Mexican Identity with a common history trait: being conquested by spain
• indigenas -- the other 60 ethnicities who didnt mix ... and somehow---some of those 60-- unwilling to identify or participate in any kind of Mexican institution...(army, education, society) they just kind of want to be left alone and not to be stolen..maybe some they'll accept if being asked that they're mexican just because they are born under the mexican territory ..but they have the feeling of belonging...

Uhmmm.... I dont think it was a significant migration to Mexico, but in my city, you once in a while see some of them... small communities only...

thnx to your state schools a sense of nationhood seems to have been largely achieved, as i am not aware of any insurgencies that want to breakup your country, unfortunately the same cannot be said for pakistan, we have tried to build a nation based on common faith but never the less we have had baluch insurgencies ,sindhi nationlists, movements for an independent pakhtunkwa (which to be fair has somewhat dissipated) many would argue that india is instigating the baluch, that may be true to an extent , india may be adding fuel to the fire, but the fire was already there.
Any way wish your law enforcement agencies the best of luck against those damn cartels, they are a true parasite. and i am really looking forward to watching Heli the new mexican movie about the cartels.

just another pissing contest.... its almost kaput in real life apart from conservative families.. who at max dont marry outside...but no racism or any other nonsense..

you my dear chap are living in a utopian world

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

thnx to your state schools a sense of nationhood seems to have been largely achieved, as i am not aware of any insurgencies that want to breakup your country, unfortunately the same cannot be said for pakistan, we have tried to build a nation based on common faith but never the less we have had baluch insurgencies ,sindhi nationlists, movements for an independent pakhtunkwa (which to be fair has somewhat dissipated) many would argue that india is instigating the baluch, that may be true to an extent , india may be adding fuel to the fire, but the fire was already there.
Any way wish your law enforcement agencies the best of luck against those damn cartels, they are a true parasite. and i am really looking forward to watching Heli the new mexican movie about the cartels.


you my dear chap are living in a utopian world

how many ppl do you see talking about aryan invasion or im better thn everybody else? in urban cities... not many...

 

[Sugarcane]

Well basically the prominent tribes of punjab (ones who own land , well represented in the army) are the MEZITO of punjab, and the low caste tribes, whose paternal heritage is from this land, they in many ways are under represented in all important aspects of life ie politics, the military (in pak military on your enrollment form you are asked to state your caste, if one is a Kammi(low caste) then more than likely his origins will preclude him from having a succesful career).

There is great saying that when you are full of BS than it's good to keep your mouth shut.

 

[django]

And on this forum I suppose you are the great arbitrator of truth

 

[Karla M]

thnx to your state schools a sense of nationhood seems to have been largely achieved, as i am not aware of any insurgencies that want to breakup your country, unfortunately the same cannot be said for pakistan, we have tried to build a nation based on common faith but never the less we have had baluch insurgencies ,sindhi nationlists, movements for an independent pakhtunkwa (which to be fair has somewhat dissipated) many would argue that india is instigating the baluch, that may be true to an extent , india may be adding fuel to the fire, but the fire was already there.
Any way wish your law enforcement agencies the best of luck against those damn cartels, they are a true parasite. and i am really looking forward to watching Heli the new mexican movie about the cartels.

yes... mexican identity and nationhood was a big achievement for the government

thanks for wishes on drug war ...but most politicians get a share from drug cartel leaders if you happen to like this topic haha you would find interesting listening to "narco-corridos" which are songs telling the real stories of how politicians are actual friends with those drug leaders... come to parties and all that stuff ...government want to ban them of course

just another pissing contest.... its almost kaput in real life apart from conservative families.. who at max dont marry outside...but no racism or any other nonsense..

ahh, ok... then you're saving me a lot of headaches and a bunch of readings!

 

[halka_kutta]

yes... mexican identity and nationhood was a big achievement for the government

thanks for wishes on drug war ...but most politicians get a share from drug cartel leaders if you happen to like this topic haha you would find interesting listening to "narco-corridos" which are songs telling the real stories of how politicians are actual friends with those drug leaders... come to parties and all that stuff ...government want to ban them of course



ahh, ok... then you're saving me a lot of headaches and a bunch of readings!

I hope you also write about ancient Pakistani civilizations like Harappa, Rig Vedic period and Gandhara. For good 800 years bhudism also flourished on this land.