Lal Masjid- Shifting Truth from Lies-Pervez Musharraf

[Bhairava]

dear sir,
I understand what you are saying
but the method and execution was totally different
re blue star it was indiscriminate and bloodier where the forces showed no restrain

the Lal Mosque case was different. the utmost are and effort was made to release and let go the maximum students, the same students who might have taken part in the rioting, stoning and torching of public and private property.

the Red part answers the Blue part.

you cant possibly compare Lal Masjid's casualties with Op.Blue star.

Many reasons:

• The militants there were given army training by Maj.Gen Shabeg Singh (of Mukthi Bahini fame) and you can guess how well they were trained.Indeed during the fighting he was there fighting and leading the militants .Was that the case in Lal Masjid ??
  
  
• You cannot possible compare the 20-25 militants (according to some Pak members) to about 500 heavily armed militants in Blue star.
  
  
• Indian army were not trained for that kind of operation like the SSG for the reason tactics get evolved and better with time and there is a good 20 years between the incidents.
  
  
• The weapons - the weapons used by the Khalistani militants were on par with the weapons used by the Indian Army.Im not sure if I can say the same about the Lal Masjid terrorists.

I can go on..but I guess you would have got what Im trying to say.

p.s.: I consider Op.Blue Star a blot on my country.A tree that should have been nipped in the bud., but allowed to grow and then brought down using chain-saws and bull-dozers.

Sorry for digressing from the topic.But I thought I need to clarify.

 

[toppys]

dear sir,
I understand what you are saying
but the method and execution was totally different
re blue star it was indiscriminate and bloodier where the forces showed no restrain

the Lal Mosque case was different. the utmost are and effort was made to release and let go the maximum students, the same students who might have taken part in the rioting, stoning and torching of public and private property.

We also claim the same but what to do when no one comes out. That is sikh. They fought excellent for what they stood for, we were not facing mullahs but the best general we had.
In both cases the integrity of nation was under question, the only reason for justfying the blood bath.
In india it caused large problems in military which has big sikh base. We should be thankful to them that it did not become big. Did something similar happen in Pakisthan?

 

[Hutchroy]

For an Objective and Unbiased Analysis of the Lal Masjid Episode please read the following by The Islamabad Policy Research Institute :

LAL MASJID CRISIS

EDITOR : DR NOOR UL HAQ

ASSISTANT EDITOR : MISS FARHAT AKRAM MUGHAL

Also check on the Pakistani English News Media for the Month of June 2007.

 

[Pukhtoon]

darkwave: Musharraf did the right thing, They wanted bullets & a ticket to heaven, They got it

What About the Bajaur Maddrassa Attack ?

there were children four years old 5 years old they were also

terrorist ?

I think it was Bajaur Attack and then the Lal masjid operation Bcoz

of which Pakistan is suffring.I will not mention here all those who got

killed from last few years in Tribal areas.

Setting in a AC room on a Chair writing all these **** that they

were taliban and bla bla bla.Its very easy !!

 

[Mujahid]

Death to the bloody Lal Masjid takfiris, this topic has been ragged too much and discussed many many times.

Now we should move ahead.

 

[Mujahid]

 

[HAIDER]

Very surprising these mullah had made public life miserable in Islamabad. Interfering in business. My family friend experience, a girl said, she been stopped by these mullah on her way to work, take out all music cds from her car and broke it and told her next time cover yourself, otherwise we ll take tough action......well, Islamabd should have no Madrassa. A school right under the nose of ISI office and they were openly bring weapon in school.

 

[graphican]

Was there anything else that GoP could have done? i dont think so. gov was facing the hardcore enemy which had decided to kill and be killed.

Ahmed,

This wasn't an attack on the survival of Pakistan, neither these terrorists were in position to harm any interest of Pakistan. There was no time's constraint in that operation which was compelling to go for brute force at a time when 15 terrorists were among 200 innocents. By giving time, Government was able to reduce number of people from 1500 to ~200.. could more time not had reduced this number even further?

Who on earth could favour terrorists, those must have been punished and sevearly so but who on earth is in the favour of killing 200 girls, kids and women among 15 terrorists? People who hate Muahraf don't do so for he killed terrorists, but for he killing terrorists along with scores of innocents who were women and children.

I don't know what GoP could have done otherwise but what it did was absolutely blunder by undergoing this operation at wrong time. Look what this incident turned into, for God sake we had to fight a full-fledge war against people who made this incident their base and brainwashed millions others.. And what was base of their brainwashing that 15 terrorists were killed by GOP? They made killing of innocent kids their foundation and this opportunity for brainwashing was provided by this flawed operation. I regret there were children of 12-15 years who lost their lives because of one inappropriate person was on decision making chair who couldn't see beyond his nose.

Wasn't he the same guy who did Bugti Operation? Was that operation a success? What is the result there afterwors? Is Baluchistan so peaceful after that or was that counter-productive and we are still facing its consequences? Do we still think if we had a chance, we would do exactly the same that we did in Lal-Masjid or in Baluchistan with Bugti? If we think we could have done something better with both of them, how as Musharaf right when he did them then?

 

[ARSENAL6]

Y'know when I go to a Mosque I go and pray, Learn Islam and the way of the Prophet Mohammid (Pbuh) and who he lived and to socialise .
I don't come here and bring anti-tank guns

I don't know where in Islam that says to bring in weapons ?

Second I would like to add

What is the point of Madrassa seriously ?
are these schools are design to put our children astray from Islam ?

 

[muse]

Pakistanis in general have a very tolerant attitide towards those who challenege the authority of the State, in particular those Pakistanis who take succor from a curious understanding of religion, not as a vehicle of FAITH in God, but as a vehicle of polical and social mass mobilization in a effort to subvert the state.

Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafsa "students" took the law in to their own hands, carried out vigilante attacks justifed this behaviour not by the law of the land but their religious ideology, a direct and dangerous challenege to any state -

This wasn't an attack on the survival of Pakistan, neither these terrorists were in position to harm any interest of Pakistan

- This kind of "sentiment" does not see the internal threat in the same way it sees the External threat, they imagine that Pakistan needs not be saved from these political-religious fanatics, are they right?

Then there is the case of the Murderous Sardar, Bugti - Why didn't he surrender to authorites? Well, to Pakistanis of a particular opinion (political-religious) it's more important that one be a rebel, than a law abider -- as for their view of the state, they like the firm and intolerant law of their political-religous worldview, but somehow, when the state of Pakistan exercises it's sole, exclusive authority, they play innocent.

Is it any wonder some wonder if Pakistanis have not raised to a new level, the suggestion of running with the rare and hunting with the hounds.

This confusion must end and it will be easier if those who refuse to abide by the law are made to suffer the full consequences of their choice.

 

[graphican]

- This kind of "sentiment" does not see the internal threat in the same way it sees the External threat, they imagine that Pakistan needs not be saved from these political-religious fanatics, are they right?

Muse,

We are talking of solution to the problem of terrorism. Every Pakistani, including people who condemn Lal-Masjid operation wanted terrorists to be punished and law of the country to be the authority, no differences on that. But has the operation achieved these goals? I am not looking at individual strands of this event and who did what and what not. what I see is that operation remained counterproductive, it didn't produce the results Musharaf originally intended.

Do we question why is Musharaf still trying to explain and defend he was right then? Why he had to? Do you not see his action was widely unaccepted in the country? It is for the one simple reason that the same extremism which he was trying to quinch, flourished 100s of times more. Is that a success or failure?

This incident is not the only incident that is on the table for us to decide. Every single initiative he took went against the interest of Pakistan. Kashir? Afghanistan? Enlightend Moderation? NRO? Chief-Justice? The Imported Prime Minister? Debt driven economy? BB's assassination? There should be few things upon which we could say okay these were better in his time. If you like to compare his time with This government then you are comparing bad with worse.. but is only a bad our faith or alternatively a worse? Do we not think of anything that is slightly better than Musharaf?

 

[ARSENAL6]

Muse,

We are talking of solution to the problem of terrorism

Education

Not education from the west but from Islam
Not Madrassa but from deep thinking in Muslim scholas and thinkers alike . Where is the research on Islamic discovery ? Where are the people who can teach the meaning what ALlah(swt) intended for us to do on this earth from the Holy Quran ?


Plus if every Muslim was educated on that level, Islam was intergrated on a govt. level then terroism will be surely be reduced.

 

[banned]

For those chanting Operation blue star should not forget that the wahabi crown also have a jewel..the siege of Makkah. Lunatics exists everywhere and if they break law and order then force is the only way to bring them down. When will people of Pakistan rise against these mullahs?? I think taking law in hand to protect the country is a worth while attempt. Now I am not advocating that we all carry weapons to shoot on sight but we need a strong media campaign to discredit these people and infuse a horrible image against them in rising generation by exposing their black tactics.

 

[Nahraf]

dear sir the damage far out weighs the benefits we got from this funding. not only it radicalised our society but also made the lives of minority sects & religions a constant nightmare. these fanatics are so much obsessed with threats & intimidation quoting Quran in every second sentence but sadly it doesn’t go down their own throats.

This all goes to prove the fact that Pakistan has low education budget and very high defense budget. The parents sends their children to free Madrasahs and many do not have properly trained staff. On this forum everybody wants Pakistan to order super duper fighter jets or ships costing gazillion dollars while we have neglected education. There are many good Madrasahs and some bad ones too as are schools. You cannot paint all of them with the same brush. The other issue is that it Pakistan Army and ISI that have facilitated the presence of militants in Pakistan. The teachers in many of these Madrasahs are not militants in most cases.

 

[rafay321]

Lal masjid operation was just defamed and used to topple Musharraf so nawaz, zardari and co can come in and start their looting of tax payers money and foreign aid.

Musharraf was running the country much better. Its just that our political and feudal class didnt liek him and he did commit some mistakes which caused his downfall which do not include lal masjid. His grave mistake was to fire the CJP.


LAL masjid operation was clean and against these terrorists holding guns and abducting citizens. The mulla brothers did it to save their thousands acre land from being taken away from them in the prime location of the capital. It was alloted to them by Zia ul Haq, whose orders carry no weight today.


P.S blue star has nothing to do with this. Blue star was against a sikh minority. This small operation was against terrorists. Govt gave more than a week so that INNOCENT children can come out and they dsid. Those left behind were just terrorists with no civic sense at all.