Lal Masjid- Shifting Truth from Lies-Pervez Musharraf

[Ahmad]

^^ please tell me in brief what he says, i cant watch the videos.

 

[missiledefence]

i personally have a very different stance on all this. i would rather keep religion or constitution aside and look at the following factors.

1.intelligence failiur:

a. ghazi brother were not tailed for a long time.
b.there was absolutely lack of signals intelligence , so the future plans of the islamists were not in the knowledge of ground forces
c.signal intel was soo poor that on 5th of july (the operation started on 4th), one of the madrassah student was talking to geo. by that time ghazi was dead and he there were guns being heard from the telephone call.
d.there were no real negotiations.our goverment failed to force any valid ISLAMIC SCHOLAR to join negotiations.

2. combat operation failiur:

a. ISI lost too many men in the event. also , too many students are still missing or killed. either its an SSG flaw or the ISI flaw.it was no where a sleek commando operation. we should keep in mind the recent russian action on hijacked plane or the one they did by putting anesthesia in a theatre in moscow siege.

b. the death of col haroon was also a show of lack of operation prepardness or lack of signal intel. he was supposedly fired from one of the minerate and the sources say that the guy had NV. so the point is, why this serious consideration of a miscreant at lal masjid was ignored in mission planning. didnt the SSG had NVEs.

c. SSG has all the luxury of time. still, they started of with a commando action , but in the end it was an a pure INFANTRY ASSAULT.they took weeks before hand to deploy explosives to gain entry in the compund but obviously all the attempts failed other wise the miscreant would have been resolved earlier.

d. white phosphorus. now. thats the easiest way of handling a situation like this. you fire them inside the basement. let it turn into oven for a while. wait out side for a day or two and the in entre the building. i think it was only white phosphorus which ultimately let the army has a facesaving. by the why DG ispr said they used WP. he used the world WP in a press conference.

my suggestion:

1. politically it was advisable that the goverment would have agreed to all terms and later on , the ISI could have taken out ghazi brothers along with a dozen other miscreant , and it could have been all over.

2. ghazi brother should have been tailed and abducted just like many other including famous aaia siddiqui. i dont know why do they let him roam free with all the noise for atleast a month.

 

[Ahmad]

Lo ji Musharraf ki zubani suno,

In the video below he's confessing himself what he did to the people out there and I'm not a supporter of Musharraf but one thing is for sure, he never lies. You guys got to watch this video (it's in Urdu though).

you can never be a politician if you do not lie.

 

[missiledefence]

i am pro pak army. but i am not pro Musharraf. also, i am not pro kiyani , because , kiyani was pro musharraf. i am from a family where half of the people are serving in the army, including my father who is one star.

so here is one video i made an year ago after the operation. its no way pro taliban or anti army. but, the whole situation created some big worm wholes in my mentality which only ISPR could fill, but it failed.

please have a rational view.

also if you watch part 3 , you will clearly know that i am not supporting lal masjid here.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

pakistan has lal masjid india has blue star

dear sir,
I understand what you are saying
but the method and execution was totally different
re blue star it was indiscriminate and bloodier where the forces showed no restrain

the Lal Mosque case was different. the utmost care and effort was made to release and let go the maximum students, the same students who might have taken part in the rioting, stoning and torching of public and private property.

 

[GUNNER]

There was one General, Gen. Ayub who handeled 1971 and handled so well that we lost a part of our country. Then there was another great Gen. Musharaf who handled the Baluchistan so well that insurgency errupted and is still there. The same great Gen. did Lal Masjid after which whole country had to undergo a limited war in Fata and rest of tribal areas.

1. Ayub Khan resigned in 1968. Yahya Khan was president in 1971. In anycase, the Bengal problem lingered on since 50's and the blame should be fairly distributed among politicians, bureacrats and the military.

2. Musharraf wasn't solely responsible for Baluch insurgency. It was there wayback in the 60's. Infact, Bhutto was the first one to send the army in. All Musharraf managed to do was to ignite the fifth insurgency. Here again, he cannot be blamed alone.

3. As far as Lal Masjid Op is concerned, i think it came at the right time. It showed the true face of the enemy that has lurked amongst us for too long now. And the war in FATA had started pretty early. Lal Masjid Op just intensified it.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I just can't believe that there are still people who support the acts of holiness done by Maulana Aunty, Musharraf did the right thing, They wanted bullets & a ticket to heaven, They got it

No thanks to the cold war, Saudi funding of madrassahs and their salafi faith resulting in sectarian intolerance & violence and leading to ultimately the taqfiri ideology we saw the day when these fanatics have taken the society hostage.
These people have so much money & funding from outside that they are willing to take on the state. I have seen from my own eyes how moderate Sunnis turned into intolerant, mocking & dismissive salafis during the course of time. Pindi & Islamabad is no exception where lal masjid has played the part of masjid Zarar. Molana aunty enjoys the support of tens of thousands of such people who want to turn Pakistan into a utopian Salafi paradise where there will be regular public lashings & executions in order to satisfy their vengeful & fearsome ideology. This is the reason why the Burka mullah had the audacity to declare the funeral prayers of the army men as haram who had died fighting the TTP. The same TTP who has time and again butchered their captives. And their victims include women and children in not one not two but hundreds of incidents.

PMLn milked this situation to its advantage hence they call Taliban their own brothers and claim to share their ideology. These remarks during elections and to date didn’t get unnoticed and so people voted for them.

My comments might seem harsh but I am sorry to say that TTP is the result of the Saudi version of faith that came as a side effect when we accepted their money during the Zia era and now it pretty much rooted in our society. Harassing other faiths and religions is a norm, taking law into own hand is a common practice and even supported with a fatwa and justifying terrorist actions is a practice.

 

[Hulk]

As an outsider it is difficult to digest that SSG will go and kill kids and women without a reason. That story does not sound correct, these people are commandos not terrorist. I do not think they would have done that, impossible, neither a President gives detailed instructions as to who needs to be killed.

 

[GUNNER]

Most of the people tend to ignore the fact that while head of the state would have given the go-ahead for use of force, as in the case of Lal Masjid, Musharraf would not have gone through the knitty gritty of the Op. How the resistance in the compound was to be neutralized would have been left to the commanders on the ground. And even after the planning, no operation can be executed to perfection.

 

[Rank]

hahah what Agencies doing at that time ???? Lal Masjid near to ISI office

QUESTION IS HOW THOSE WEAPONS TRANSFERED TO LAL MASJID ?? its mean Agencies sleeping ???

 

[missiledefence]

No thanks to the cold war, Saudi funding of madrassahs and their salafi faith resulting in sectarian intolerance & violence and leading to ultimately the taqfiri ideology we saw the day when these fanatics have taken the society hostage.
These people have so much money & funding from outside that they are willing to take on the state. I have seen from my own eyes how moderate Sunnis turned into intolerant, mocking & dismissive salafis during the course of time. Pindi & Islamabad is no exception where lal masjid has played the part of masjid Zarar. Molana aunty enjoys the support of tens of thousands of such people who want to turn Pakistan into a utopian Salafi paradise where there will be regular public lashings & executions in order to satisfy their vengeful & fearsome ideology. This is the reason why the Burka mullah had the audacity to declare the funeral prayers of the army men as haram who had died fighting the TTP. The same TTP who has time and again butchered their captives. And their victims include women and children in not one not two but hundreds of incidents.

PMLn milked this situation to its advantage hence they call Taliban their own brothers and claim to share their ideology. These remarks during elections and to date didn’t get unnoticed and so people voted for them.

My comments might seem harsh but I am sorry to say that TTP is the result of the Saudi version of faith that came as a side effect when we accepted their money during the Zia era and now it pretty much rooted in our society. Harassing other faiths and religions is a norm, taking law into own hand is a common practice and even supported with a fatwa and justifying terrorist actions is a practice.

i agree with you . but bro, the madrassahs were in control of us until the alqaeda got integrated. alqaeda are sophisticated,educted, rich , motivated elements.

its alqaeda who introduced technology to taliban like people in syria, africa , pakistan and southern philippines. now, the taliban + alqaeda is a lethal combination. this alliance is totally different from what it was ten years ago.

we need to rise to a new level to combat this combo. see, we are such losers. we dont even have SWAT. when there is a disaster, there is absolute shemozel.we need to practically improve our police and special forces. also, i think as far as signal intel is concerned, ISI is definitely not impressive. also we hardly have any thing for geo spatial intel. can you beleiv , pak army use google earth to plot maps and to get cordinates. we dont even have map info in army or police.

 

[Durran3]

hahah what Agencies doing at that time ???? Lal Masjid near to ISI office

QUESTION IS HOW THOSE WEAPONS TRANSFERED TO LAL MASJID ?? its mean Agencies sleeping ???

Dude how delusional Are you? movement of arms between various terrorist organizations has been happening for a very long time. The stupid excuse that the ISI office is near the mosque is such a false argument its not even funny. In Peshawar my house is pretty close to the ISI office (which recently got blown up), does that mean that i am involved with the ISI?

Fact is this isn't something new that arms and weapons are being discovered in Madrassa's and mosques. Its not a new phenomenon and in fact has been happening for a very long time. Pictures speak a thousand words, and those masked men with guns against our army is not a Staged drama, you people just can't get enough of conspiracy bullshit.

 

[niaz]

Sir Niaz,

I am not in Amy but I am a soldier for this country who was born here and who prays to die defending it. Our difference of opinion aside, your comments like above indicate you overstepped. I protest and request to take your words back.

Honourable sir,

I am not a fan of Musharraf even though I prefer him to all the current lot. My reason for not liking him is that he had vowed to take off his uniform but he went back on his words. If instead of Musharraf it was Zaradri or Sharif or anyone else for that matter, my stance on Lal Masjid would have been the same.

Initial problem occurred because some mosques built on illegal lands were demolished. One among these was a very old mosque. Students from the Jamia Hafsa took over a government building next door and refused to vacate until their demands were met. Gov’t offered to build the mosque at another place but Ghazi brothers insisted that it must be at the same place. Even Imam of Kaaba tried to mediate but in vain.

No government can be called a government if its writ does not even run in the Capital. People forget that no stone was left unturned to resolve the situation amicably. In this particular case, two brothers; who took control of the mosque after their father was killed by some inside the mosque; were trying to forcibly impose their will on the State of Pakistan; backing it up with guns and refusing to budge from their position.

If you have an issue with the state authority, proper way is to go thru the courts not use guns or lathis. If Ghazi brothers had appealed for contributions to fight their case in the Supreme Court, I would have probably contributed because I also don't like mosques being demolished without justification.

However, I consider everyone, regardless of the age, sex, ethnicity or religion who opposes writ of the State by force of arms an enemy of my country. Those who support actions of such traitors are also not without blame. I will not take my words back for in my book Pakistan comes first.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

i agree with you . but bro, the madrassahs were in control of us until the alqaeda got integrated. alqaeda are sophisticated,educted, rich , motivated elements.

its alqaeda who introduced technology to taliban like people in syria, africa , pakistan and southern philippines. now, the taliban + alqaeda is a lethal combination. this alliance is totally different from what it was ten years ago.

I agree,
actually ISI and other agencies including civil administration/ bureaucracy was heavily influenced and infiltrated by the people who shared the Taliban salafi ideology. And naturally there was a soft corner for them this is why organisations like Sipah Sahabah openly operated and executed members of public of their target sect without any fear of government reprisals, encouraged by state non-action & indirect agencies support they raised the bar and started attacking the main stream Sunnis notably Beralvi school so we saw Darbars and Shrines coming under attack in addition to imam bargahs etc.. It was only during Musharaf rule that the process of purging the security agencies of these fanatic sympathisers was started but how much we succeeded remains to be seen.

I will like to quote what Queen Noor of Jordan has said about this Taqfiri Idelology
She says it is a medieval, draconian ideology with the resources and access to the 21st century technology and media access.” Which makes a very dangerous combination

Imagine these people beheading their captives, blowing the brains out of women on adultery charges and then broadcasting it and relishing at the sock and fear of us people.

These people are very good at playing the religious card. They pushed the state to the wall. Mocked its authority. Played vigilante, caused chaos and intimidation and continuously bombarded the public with false propaganda.
You might recall that at one hand Abdul Rashid would brag about weapons and food that can last for over 2 months and they have no problem in dealing with siege and then he will complain that why the state came all guns blazing when they had a handful of few kalshenkov. Someone ask them what is the meaning of having a weapon in a place of knowledge and worship?

 

[banned]

Well these people challenging the law and order were definitely terrorist my only regret is Mush wasted a lot of time and valuable soldier. He should have bombed them to ashes right before they even provoked the government. The drama went on for too long and created negative points for Mush. The moulvis were never well wishers of Pakistani state. Even Jinnah was attacked publicly by these salafis and wahabis and near fatally once too. Only if GOP rulers understood this then we would have kept tight curbs on mullah and their mischief. Unfortunately we fueled this fire further by our own hands under the pretext of holy war. These mullahs no matter how much religious card they play are in the game of exploitation for their own benefit. In reality they have no interest in public welfare but only filling their own pockets.