Kill the apostate - 10th grade textbook of Saudi Arabia

[EyanKhan]

Qur'an (4:89) - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."

This could very well refer to a Hypocrite , Not to mention it is out of context , The Quran is not like your every day book and not every idiot can interpret it. Some of the things are discontinued in one place and continued in other.
Having sad that it is very well understood and accept by the educated scholars that no clear mention any particular punishment for apostasy has been stated in Quran
Though some(power hungry mullahs/rulers) interpret the verses differently then others.

 

[OrionHunter]

Kill a person even if he changes his religion to Islam?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

The problem is not that, the problem is, if they say their country their rule for saudis, while openly engage in slandering India n Israel on various issues........that rule of a thumb is no more applied when it comes to India, Israel and the USA...why?

Thats the bone of contention..

What you say is true. But I expect them to be like that. So I don't feel surprised by the inhumanity that is on display.

Kill a person even if he changes his religion to Islam?

Conditions Apply

 

[mehboobkz]

This could very well refer to a Hypocrite , Not to mention it is out of context , The Quran is not like your every day book and not every idiot can interpret it. Some of the things are discontinued in one place and continued in other.
Having sad that it is very well understood and accept by the educated scholars that no clear mention any particular punishment for apostasy has been stated in Quran
Though some(power hungry mullahs/rulers) interpret the verses differently then others.

It clearly narrates by using the the word believers and disbelievers
What hypocrisy has to do here? how did you interpret hypocrisy here?
From where you got this word?
The word munafiq/hypocrite is not even there...
BTW, on Quran its said, its the clear book; Qur’an says: “and We have revealed the Book to you explaining clearly everything (16:89)

Now my question to you only: Why did God come with such a complex book, that laymen have to end up with molivies and imams? Christians have no such problems.

How do people in the Europe and USA understand their Quran?
By not understand the text, it would be a meaningless exercise, right?

How do Bangladeshis read their Quran?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

It clearly narrates by using the the word believers and disbelievers
What hypocrisy has to do here? how did you interpret hypocrisy here?
From where you got this word?
The word munafiq/hypocrite is not even there...
BTW, on Quran its said, its the clear book; Qur’an says: “and We have revealed the Book to you explaining clearly everything (16:89)

Now my question to you only: Why did God come with such a complex book, that laymen have to end up with molivies and imams? Christians have no such problems.

How do people in the Europe and USA understand their Quran?
By not understand the text, it would be a meaningless exercise, right?

How do Bangladeshis read their Quran?

Hypocrites have a specific name - munafiq. That is different from Murti'd or Murtad.
@Zarvan can explain better IMO. Besides religious discussions are banned and will result in YOUR ban.

 

[mehboobkz]

Those who run away by saying "its their country their rules" are against the humanity.
After all those to be killed are humans.

Although I love their such golden principle of "Its their country their rule"...But it is them who violate it, by slandering India, Israel and the USA.

 

[M. Sarmad]

It clearly narrates by using the the word believers and disbelievers
What hypocrisy has to do here? how did you interpret hypocrisy here?
From where you got this word?
The word munafiq/hypocrite is not even there...

What is [the matter] with you [that you are] two groups concerning the hypocrites, while Allah has made them fall back [into error and disbelief] for what they earned. Do you wish to guide those whom Allah has sent astray? And he whom Allah sends astray - never will you find for him a way [of guidance].[4:88]

They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.[4:89]

Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.[4:90]

 

[mehboobkz]

Hypocrites have a specific name - munafiq. That is different from Murti'd or Murtad.
@Zarvan can explain better IMO. Besides religious discussions are banned and will result in YOUR ban.

I will be glad to get banned, provided 2 more people who indulged in this discussion also.
Or they may evade this harsh punishment being Pakistani = preferential stock.

You will see that I, did not, on my own start this discussion, but was dragged by someone who put forth wrong arguments and I felt like taking him head on.

Anyway, bann is welcome.
Its a small price against the safeguard of humanity.

 

[EyanKhan]

Now my question to you only: Why did God come with such a complex book, that laymen have to end up with molivies and imams? Christians have no such problems.
How do people in the Europe and USA understand their Quran?
By not understand the text, it would be a meaningless exercise, right?

Christians have had alot , I repeat alot of problems with their book , go read some history first!
Let's not even discuss the old testament.
The book is complex and simple in its own right.Islam is a very realistic religion. For the laymen there are very simple , clear and precise commands Pray , fast ,charity etc.
Islam has no pope / mullah system , one does not need an Imam to even pray in congregation. Basically the mullahs have use it for their own continued importance and benefit. The layman never needed to depend on the mullah or anything as such.
These days good translations are availaible etc .One can exercise his own intellect very easily especially regarding the fundamental duties.

 

[SQ8]

It clearly narrates by using the the word believers and disbelievers
What hypocrisy has to do here? how did you interpret hypocrisy here?
From where you got this word?
The word munafiq/hypocrite is not even there...
BTW, on Quran its said, its the clear book; Qur’an says: “and We have revealed the Book to you explaining clearly everything (16:89)

Now my question to you only: Why did God come with such a complex book, that laymen have to end up with molivies and imams? Christians have no such problems.

How do people in the Europe and USA understand their Quran?
By not understand the text, it would be a meaningless exercise, right?

How do Bangladeshis read their Quran?

Which is why the bible has multiple different versions.. in itself a problem. And the Quran is simple, if read in context.
One can say these two statements.
Mehboobkz is a Jackass. The previous statement is incorrect.

Either of them read independently take the intended meaning out.. one says you are a jackass and that is that.. the other refers to a previous statement .. which could be taken as any.

In your own link.. the translation that Pickthall puts forward of both the previous verse and the next should clear up confusion.

What aileth you that ye are become two parties regarding the hypocrites, when Allah cast them back (to disbelief) because of what they earned? Seek ye to guide him whom Allah hath sent astray? He whom Allah sendeth astray, for him thou (O MUhammad) canst not find a road.

They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,

Except those who seek refuge with a people between whom and you there is a covenant, or (those who) come unto you because their hearts forbid them to make war on you or make war on their own folk. Had Allah willed He could have given them power over you so that assuredly they would have fought you. So, if they hold aloof from you and wage not war against you and offer you peace, Allah alloweth you no way against them.

Most Islamophobes like to ignore the bolded part. It is clearly self explanatory that YES, you should kill apostates if they become your enemies.. but they should be spared if they pledge not to act against you.. or take refuge with someone you have a pact of no war with. So your entire argument crumbles away right there.

After all, If .. say a Hindu.. was to reject Hinduism and pledge to kill Hindus.. or act against their interests.. would any sane Hindu be ok with him/her doing that and leave them alone?

This could very well refer to a Hypocrite , Not to mention it is out of context , The Quran is not like your every day book and not every idiot can interpret it. Some of the things are discontinued in one place and continued in other.
Having sad that it is very well understood and accept by the educated scholars that no clear mention any particular punishment for apostasy has been stated in Quran
Though some(power hungry mullahs/rulers) interpret the verses differently then others.

It is for both hypocrites and apostates. But people need to read in context

 

[EyanKhan]

It is for both hypocrites and apostates. But people need to read in context

The prescribed punishment for apostates is only when they try to bring harm to the state or community!

 

[Jaanbaz]

What is [the matter] with you [that you are] two groups concerning the hypocrites, while Allah has made them fall back [into error and disbelief] for what they earned. Do you wish to guide those whom Allah has sent astray? And he whom Allah sends astray - never will you find for him a way [of guidance].[4:88]

They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.[4:89]

Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.[4:90]

Quran does not mention killing of apostates. I see you are wasting time with a vicious troll whose only agenda is to start useless religious debates, you really think he knows anything about Quran or Islam? I saw his comments, he just copy pasted a verse and a hadith, i know exactly which anti Islamic website that troll is using. I suggest reporting him for starting religious debates would be a better solution for lonely middle aged perverted troll like him.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Most Islamophobes like to ignore the bolded part. It is clearly self explanatory that YES, you should kill apostates if they become your enemies.. but they should be spared if they pledge not to act against you.. or take refuge with someone you have a pact of no war with. So your entire argument crumbles away right there.

After all, If .. say a Hindu.. was to reject Hinduism and pledge to kill Hindus.. or act against their interests.. would any sane Hindu be ok with him/her doing that and leave them alone?

Very very specious argument, only good enough for an apology, not good enough to actually introduce tolerance to young muslim kids.

What kind of BS are you peddling here Oscar? If a Hindu leaves the faith and acts against Hindu interests (as most new overzealous converts do duh!), NO THEY ARE NOT KILLED, and NO THEY ARE NOT TO BE KILLED FFS!!!

And why should an apostate pledge to not act against muslims (whatever that means, anything can be construed as an act against muslims, who decides, Muslims right? ), what does it mean ''if they become your enemies'' - why the hell would your religion recommend people who are construed your enemies to be killed?

There is intolerance, violence and rigidity oozing from your apology.

 

[Arabian Legend]

Hilarious, The Islam that we taught and spread all over the world is now being lectured by non Arabs and even non Arabic experts. Maybe we need to reconquer and deliver the message once again.

 

[SQ8]

Very very specious argument, only good enough for an apology, not good enough to actually introduce tolerance to young muslim kids.

What kind of BS are you peddling here Oscar? If a Hindu leaves the faith and acts against Hindu interests (as most new overzealous converts do duh!), NO THEY ARE NOT KILLED, and NO THEY ARE NOT TO BE KILLED FFS!!!

And why should an apostate pledge to not act against muslims (whatever that means, anything can be construed as an act against muslims, who decides, Muslims right? ), what does it mean ''if they become your enemies'' - why the hell would your religion recommend people who are construed your enemies to be killed?

There is intolerance, violence and rigidity oozing from your apology.

I am not apologizing at all. Dont even think I have to. So in other words, you are ok with a Hindu relative of yours who has converted.. coming into your house and shooting you and your family in their heads?
Good to know you have your safety covered.

The rest is the post of an Islamophobe.. and NOTHING else.