Kashmiri Leaders visit Pakistan

[Bang Galore]

Cry me a river

A quick search on Google reveals that FIR was not filed on time due to Omar's reluctance, this is why the SP was transferred for not filing the FIR on time. The bodies bore marks of scratches and struggle, this alone is reason enough to file the FIR. This pretty much confirms it that he was afraid of his masters in Delhi, thats why he showed reluctance. There is no case to process, after all the stakeholders in this case want to live their lives peacefully or else they risk facing the might off 700 000 men armed to the teeth. Indian special laws pretty much guarantee that Indian soldiers are shielded from any prosecution for the excesses they commit.

You have an opinion and therefore you are trying to fit facts to tailor to your jaundiced view. You suggest that the bodies bore marks of a struggle, opinion elsewhere suggests differently. No proof to support your view as the view being correct. Your references to masters in Delhi reflects the ridiculous position that you start out from, a neutral observer you are not. Your opinion is well, just that, your opinion.

I love this wrapped back handed slap referring to Hafiz Saeed. I wish you would actually apply your advice to your own self. Is there any piece of evidence that Hafiz Saeed is guilty of mass murder. Has India been able to prove this in the Court of Law? Oh wait i forgot, in this case the rule of law goes right out of the window for a citizen of the world's so called largest democracy. I have no love for Hafiz Saeed, but i do believe in the court of law and due process.

Prove in the court of law? which court? Yours? Unless you are blind or intellectually dishonest, there is ample evidence to prove that Hafiz Saeed is guilty of terrorism. Unless, of course, you are one of the chaps still asking for proof against Bin Laden.

Last i read, IOK was a disputed territory and as a muslim my heart goes to any muslim who has been denied justice.

Since you have made it clear that your concern is only for those of your religion, expect no particular interest from us about the premium that we must place on such declarations of support.

The case was too murky. One of the ladies bore marks of sexual assault and scratches. There was no conclusive evidence to support that these ladies were drowned in the river.

If the case was murky, there is no basis for blindly asserting that your view, an admittedly biased one, is the correct one.

You know whats even more sad, the apologists whom try to justify the wrong doings. Its even sadder to watch respected Indian members justify the excesses committed by the Indian forces in Kashmir. I find it disgusting that heinous crimes such as rape or murder are justified, and even in some cases with the consent of senior officers they are covered up.

No one is defending a clear cut case of excess committed. In a self admitted murky case, you can have two opinions and there need be no motives impugned. If I were to do that, I could argue that you are cynically exploiting the death of two women to support your losing cause. Same holds for your defence of an internationally named terrorist. Certificate issuing is both unnecessary & pointess.

 

[Bang Galore]

Its too early to write him off, how can you conclude he cant create a consensus in his favour, or in the favour of BJP/NDA. The court has to call him guilty of collusion of rioters, untill that happens, he is clean.

I wan't talking about whether or not he can create a consensus in his favour (though even rthat is debatable) but whether his method of politics lends itself to the art of compromise.. The courts have to prove nothing, he is either guilty of collusion or of being incompetent, the choice is yours.

Everything depends on votes, if tomorrow, BJP (under Modi gets the nos.) then even Nitish (who is opposing himself) will start wagging his tail around Modi.

Extremely unlikely. Nitesh Kumar is more likely to split from the NDA & join the UPA than end up committing electoral suicide by supporting Modi.

And please, what leadership qualities or consensus building qualities does the current PM have that Modi dosent have ?

The current PM has run a coalition, however badly, for the better part of 9 years. Modi has yet to prove that he can run any coalition for any length of time.

A PM must definitiely have a tongue, Modi has it. I am not sure about the current PM.

Everyone has a tongue, controlling it is an art by itself.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Granted. You are calling Omar Abdullah a stooge when he is elected by the people of Kashmir over the more separatist Mehbooba Mufti. Yeah right. I suppose voting is not something you can understand easily for someone from Pakistan. You all do understand the Kalashnikov easily.

Most of those who want to join with Pakistan are welcome to leave and if they choose to wield weapons- they will be shot.

And resistance against the occupation forces (sissies) will never just disappear

But surely more mass graves and fake encounters and all that which you are famous for would not subside either.



Sorry if my post butt hurt you. But you can't impose your will on people that are largely and for the most part against you.

 

[SamantK]

And resistance against the occupation forces (sissies) will never just disappear

But surely more mass graves and fake encounters and all that which you are famous for would not subside either.

Only in the minds of misguided and brainwashed people. We are famous for many things, last time I checked, you have never highlighted any. I will discard your rants purely on the basis of bias.

Sorry if my post butt hurt you. But you can't impose your will on people that are largely and for the most part against you.

You must be living in a parallel universe thinking Indian's might get butt hurt from your rants.

Do you know who we are? The largest democracy in the world, even with many downsides, it is something you have never experienced.. So another myopic view and can be discarded..

 

[Paan Singh]

And resistance against the occupation forces (sissies) will never just disappear

But surely more mass graves and fake encounters and all that which you are famous for would not subside either.



Sorry if my post butt hurt you. But you can't impose your will on people that are largely and for the most part against you.

Army have cleaned up so called resistance upto much extent n one of the reason is pakistani internal problems thats why its in indian interest to keep pakistan busy in inner belt.
India never had intention to occupy pakistan territory.

 

[Contrarian]

And resistance against the occupation forces (sissies) will never just disappear

But surely more mass graves and fake encounters and all that which you are famous for would not subside either.

Why this need to call anyone names? "Occupation Forces", "sissies".
Desperate resorts of those on the losing side maybe?
Do you think it makes an iota of difference? You wish and you hope that it may be the case. For these may be the only weapons you can wield.

Sorry if my post butt hurt you. But you can't impose your will on people that are largely and for the most part against you.

Your opinion one way or another cannot hurt me or anyone else for that matter.

The facts on the ground however- a dying insurgency, sure deaths of most terrorists, India staying and playing for keeps, a Pakistan reducing its support for terrorism, Pakistani Presidents and Prime Ministers agree'ing to put Kashmir on the 'backburner'- all would hurt you though.

 

[notorious_eagle]

You have an opinion and therefore you are trying to fit facts to tailor to your jaundiced view. You suggest that the bodies bore marks of a struggle, opinion elsewhere suggests differently. No proof to support your view as the view being correct. Your references to masters in Delhi reflects the ridiculous position that you start out from, a neutral observer you are not. Your opinion is well, just that, your opinion.

Whatever floats your boat my friend. You can accuse me of being biased, when in fact you are the one who is trying to spread Indian propaganda over here. But i don't blame you considering how much brainwashing is received by the average Indian through the media. I am just stating what the truth is, there is no proof to look at here, all we need to look at is the actions of this particular individual and they speak for themselves.

Prove in the court of law? which court? Yours? Unless you are blind or intellectually dishonest, there is ample evidence to prove that Hafiz Saeed is guilty of terrorism. Unless, of course, you are one of the chaps still asking for proof against Bin Laden.

Wow. Talk about lying right to my face. It appears that your bias is severely clouding your judgement. Can you show me that proof where i can get the slam dunk that HS is a mass murderer. I have gone over the dossiers send by GOI, there is not a single court in this world that would convict HS for a criminal offence. Pakistani authorities arrested HS on request of the Indian authorities. After that Pakistani authorities requested the Indian counterparts to hand over the evidence so they could nail HS. Indian authorities didn't produce any evidence, the courts had no choice but to release him. But ah well, whats the point of explaining rule of law to you intellectually because those Indian goggles on your eyes won't let you look at things from a neutral perspective.

Since you have made it clear that your concern is only for those of your religion, expect no particular interest from us about the premium that we must place on such declarations of support.

Straw Man Argument, Nice . Picking bits and pieces out of my argument. In this case, i was clearly referring to Kashmir where the muslims face systematic bias from the occupying force. You are than welcome to go back and see my posts condemning the treatment meted out to Ahmadis or Hindus here in Pakistan.

If the case was murky, there is no basis for blindly asserting that your view, an admittedly biased one, is the correct one.

Off course, as long as you keep those Indian goggles on your eyes this is exactly what you will see .

No one is defending a clear cut case of excess committed. In a self admitted murky case, you can have two opinions and there need be no motives impugned. If I were to do that, I could argue that you are cynically exploiting the death of two women to support your losing cause. Same holds for your defence of an internationally named terrorist. Certificate issuing is both unnecessary & pointess.

Read the above

 

[karan.1970]

And resistance against the occupation forces (sissies) will never just disappear

Wanna Bet ??

But surely more mass graves and fake encounters and all that which you are famous for would not subside either.

You bet...

Sorry if my post butt hurt you. But you can't impose your will on people that are largely and for the most part against you.

Wanna Bet ??

 

[Umair Nawaz]

or we can say indian leaders visit pakistan.

No u cant say that.

Why?? Do you treat them differently than how you treat rest of your country? If the answer is no...then why does rest of your country burn , half your countrymen separate and form a new country?

HAHAHA u mean indian conspiracy of agartala n involvement in internal matters of Pakistan, in Eastern Side.
Good Weldone.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

There is a simple explanation for why Pakistan side of Kashmir is more peaceful than Indian side : because India does not create problem for Pakistan in Pakistan administrated Kashmir, like how Pakistan does it for India in Indian Kashmir.

In contrast you can see, how things turned sore for Pakistan, when India did create problem for Pakistan in East Pakistan.

So major portion of Kashmir's trouble can be traced back to Pakistan.You are not part of the solution but part of the problem

DUDE im a Kashmiri
Im from Dist. Bagh Azad Kashmir.
There has been countless indian spies arrested in Azad Kashmir !!!
But the main reason why u were unsuccessful there was because of strong intelligance network there and people's support for ISI there.
Do u know that in our valley people sometimes handed our 'strangers' to the intelligence officers themselves n 50% of them used to spies when the intelligence used to interogate with them!!!!
Even my family has also done that. They used to cross LOC in the night times n used to go into the villeges close to the Loc area n people used to get suspect them the 'strangers' in the villeges n used to inform the near army post or intelligence officers that they used to know personally.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

I reject your claim. Kashmir is just as peaceful as Pakistan as of now. 1.4 million tourists visited Kashmir this year.

Its just a Claim dude.
We dont believe it.
Moreover those people r idian nations who had visited there as tourists and they feel that its part of their country although its not!!!
Also NO international Humantarian organization is present there nor even Amnesty International who can work independantly there n report the groud situation to the World!.
The only reports we have from there is from Indian gov or indian media, thats all.

Indian kashmir is more peaceful than any big city of pakistan these days. You can campare kashmir with karachi, swat...

What a lie

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Excellent work.

Pakistan should invite more Kashmiri separatist leaders to Pakistan for discussions.

India has been doing the same with regards to Sri Lanka, even allowing blatantly pro-LTTE conferences in Tamil Nadu to go ahead.

Give the Indians a taste of their own medicine.

China should invite separatist leaders from Assam and the North East for discussions in Beijing.

Dude there is a misconception in yr mind as they r not separarist leaders but r Leader of Kashmiri people themselves n also we consider Kashmir to be very Integral part of Our Country.

And what will you do if India starts supporting BLA ?

India already is

 

[ares]

DUDE im a Kashmiri
Im from Dist. Bagh Azad Kashmir.
There has been countless indian spies arrested in Azad Kashmir !!!
But the main reason why u were unsuccessful there was because of strong intelligance network there and people's support for ISI there.
Do u know that in our valley people sometimes handed our 'strangers' to the intelligence officers themselves n 50% of them used to spies when the intelligence used to interogate with them!!!!
Even my family has also done that. They used to cross LOC in the night times n used to go into the villeges close to the Loc area n people used to get suspect them the 'strangers' in the villeges n used to inform the near army post or intelligence officers that they used to know personally.

So basically you are saying Indian spies have been arrested in Pak adm Kashmir ..as they were trying to incite trouble and further you acknowledge Pakistani sent it people to Indian Kashmir with the same objective.

Then why do you people cry a river for Kashmiri people, now that there is trouble in Kashmir, you were the ones who incited it.

Not that it can get you anywhere because a important lesson from creation of Bangladesh, you should have learnt is ..No matter, how much local population is against you, victory can only be achieved by strength of arms. ie East Pakistan did not become Bangladesh till the time..India invaded and defeated Pakistani army there.

Another thing you need to realize is spying is different from cross border terrorism. India might have sent spies into Pak adminn Kashmir , but it did not sent men militants wielding gun, shooting people, planting bombs into Pak admin Kashmir. Unlike Pakistan...which has terror training camps in its parts for more than two decades now, regularly aids and abets their training and their crossing into India.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

or on the second thought,maybe u r right.the people of northern areas dont know how to protest,because the male literacy there is 13% and female literacy is 3.5%
Human Rights in Pak-Occupied Kashmir: Screams of the Oppressed
this is unlike our jammu and kashmir,where literacy is 68%.
File:India literacy rate map en.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
J&K literacy rate soars by 13% in last decade

Havnt we told u to give credibal proof not yr indian propaganda n wikipedia whose chief editor is an indian national.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

just tell me when u can access youtube.

First u tell me has yr gov stopped arresting muslim girls on comments on fb on indian shutter down on the eve of death of Hindu terrorist leader and also arrest of her non muslim friend just because she liked her comment in a public forum

This is a perfect example of '' LOOK WHO IS TALKING''
So much for freedom of speach n human rights.