Kashmir unrest: Sympathisers of radicals in Delhi are a bigger threat than Pakistan, Islamic State

[Spectre]

This is the crux of the entire article perhaps that the unrest in the valley is not necessarily due to the factors political liberals have so far attributed with. Not denying for a moment at all that for the last decade or so the traditional anti-India sentiment and the religious radicalization are both feeding each other, is it not being a too self-satisfying thought that the unrest has nothing to do with the factors like rampart corruption, gross human right violations by both the state and the security forces with the help of draconian laws like PSA and AFSPA? Unfortunately brushing off the root causes of the traditional anti-Indian sentiments without correcting our wrongs is just giving leeway to continue the same blunders again.

Dada we have to establish a baseline.

Rampant corruption is present all over India.

Human rights violations are inevitable where security forces are deployed and where active militancy is omnipresent. Name one situation where it has been avoided? But the important thing I concede is to be more transparent over the aftermath. Guilty should be punished but may be their punishment could be publicised so that victims have closure. Lots of other steps can be taken so that the balance is maintained where security forces are comfortable and confident over their situation and the common people too can rest easy that any violations would be severely dealt with by the army itself

I still agree that AFSPA should stand - reasons given in our earlier discussions.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Dada we have to establish a baseline.

Rampant corruption is present all over India.

Human rights violations are inevitable where security forces are deployed and where active militancy is omnipresent. Name one situation where it has been avoided? But the important thing I concede is to be more transparent over the aftermath. Guilty should be punished but may be their punishment could be publicised so that victims have closure. Lots of other steps can be taken so that the balance is maintained where security forces are comfortable and confident over their situation and the common people too can rest easy that any violations would be severely dealt with by the army itself

I still agree that AFSPA should stand - reasons given in our earlier discussions.

The present violence is NOTHING as compared to the nineties

If we Indians are so SOFTIES we should just surrender to Pakistan

All these Rafales and Sukhois are useless

 

[thesolar65]

OK guys, can you advice me on one thing? Got flight tickets to srinagar for oct three days before that wani was killed. My airline says wait for Aug last, then we will ask you what to do. I mean change the route or cancel the ticket (without cancellation charge). If I cancel it now, they will deduct 2000/- per ticket. Jet and AI have already asked theirs to cancel the ticket from their side.

@PARIKRAMA @ranjeet @SrNair

 

[Spectre]

The present violence is NOTHING as compared to the nineties

If we Indians are so SOFTIES we should just surrender to Pakistan

All these Rafales and Sukhois are useless

It is not about soft and hard, it is not about false sense machismo - if we crack down because of those reasons then it is wrong.

Kashmiris deserve our sympathy and where possible they should be accommodated. Our country is our mother -- tell me which mother is not soft with its children? Yes even the errant ones..

But this softness should not lead to neglect and complacency, limits are there which are uncross-able.

Also the mother loves all her children equally, if Kashmiris use violance then there would not be single tear shed when they get whats coming for them

 

[Stephen Cohen]

OK guys, can you advice me on one thing? Got flight tickets to srinagar for oct three days before that wani was killed. My airline says wait for Aug last, then we will ask you what to do. I mean change the route or cancel the ticket (without cancellation charge). If I cancel it now, they will deduct 2000/- per ticket. Jet and AI have already asked theirs to cancel the ticket from their side.

@PARIKRAMA @ranjeet @SrNair

Violence may end in the near future but it can explode again without warning
in October

I read that the people who were rushing out of Srinagar had to pay 20 THOUSAND
per ticket because of the rush and heavy demand

Why not go to Himachal ; Uttarakhand or Darjeeling if you want to go to Snow clad areas

It is not about soft and hard, it is not about false sense machismo - if we crack down because of those reasons then it is wrong.

Kashmiris deserve our sympathy and where possible they should be accommodated. Our country is our mother -- tell me which mother is not soft with its children? Yes even the errant ones..

But this softness should not lead to neglect and complacency, limits are there which are uncross-able.

Also the mother loves all her children equally, if Kashmiris use violance then there would not be single tear shed.

All this emotional talk is good for speeches and essays

They have no utility when it comes to fighting an ENEMY who is waging a proxy war
through the Kashmiris

India needs the LAND

If Kashmiris want to go to Pakistan they can go

They are JUST waiting for Us to become emotional and MAKE a Mistake

The previous kashmiri interlocutors presented a report in 2012
Google about it

But it was SO fraught with risks that the Congress government developed cold feet

One wrong move and you start the process of Kashmir's secession
and also immediately sow the seeds of India's disintegration

 

[thesolar65]

Violence may end in the near future but it can explode again without warning
in October

I read that the people who were rushing out of Srinagar had to pay 20 THOUSAND
per ticket because of the rush and heavy demand

Why not go to Himachal ; Uttarakhand or Darjeeling if you want to go to Snow clad areas

I have only option : North India. Because my ticket to delhi is not going to be cancelled as I will lose more. Have completed kullu manali shimala. Completed Jaipur, Udayapur and Ajmer. Also Nainital, Haridwar, Dheradun etc. Have got 6 days time. So I have thought of Mt Abu, jaisalmer/jodhpur or other places of Rajasthan. One day for Golden temple/wagha border. All by road from delhi.

 

[Spectre]

All this emotional talk is good for speeches and essays

They have no utility when it comes to fighting an ENEMY who is waging a proxy war
through the Kashmiris

India needs the LAND

If Kashmiris want to go to Pakistan they can go

They are JUST waiting for Us to become emotional and MAKE a Mistake

The previous kashmiri interlocutors presented a report in 2012
Google about it

But it was SO fraught with risks that the Congress government developed cold feet

One wrong move and you start the process of Kashmir's secession
and also immediately sow the seeds of India's disintegration

Oh sweet child - you dont win by playing enemy's games. Pakistan wants India to fight its own - that adds legitimacy to the cause of Kashmir.

You dont win by lighting fires in your own home but in your enemy's home, so we should look towards assimilating them and at the same time talk about getting back P0k. I think anyone who has read Ramayan would know that.

Reduce Kashmir to a Law and Order issue - thats the solution.

 

[scorpionx]

Dada we have to establish a baseline.

Rampant corruption is present all over India.

Human rights violations are inevitable where security forces are deployed and where active militancy is omnipresent. Name one situation where it has been avoided? But the important thing I concede is to be more transparent over the aftermath. Guilty should be punished but may be their punishment could be publicised so that victims have closure. Lots of other steps can be taken so that the balance is maintained where security forces are comfortable and confident over their situation and the common people too can rest easy that any violations would be severely dealt with by the army itself

I still agree that AFSPA should stand - reasons given in our earlier discussions.

That is my friend, I am stressing upon above all. Create a breathing space first, conduct surveys why Kashmir has the most number of school drop outs in recent times (an extra ordinary step taken by Bangladeshi Government after a number of youths got disappeared and later found enrolled in extremist camp), carry out medical investigations about the psychological impact on Kashmiris after decade long series of bloody violence and unrest and to formulate how to heal the scars. We can not outright reject these ideas before blaming them entirely on religious extremism.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Oh sweet child - you dont win by playing enemy's games. Pakistan wants India to fight its own - that adds legitimacy to the cause of Kashmir.

You dont win by lighting fires in your own home but in your enemy's home, so we should look towards assimilating them and at the same time talk about getting back P0k. I think anyone who has read Ramayan would know that.

Reduce Kashmir to a Law and Order issue - thats the solution.

I agree that we should hit back in their country but the problem is what the
bleeding heart liberals are suggesting

That is exactly the opening and the SIGN that the enemy is looking for

Once they believe that we are tiring ; there movement will in fact be even Further energised

We have to break them -- physically and mentally

That is my friend, I am stressing upon above all. Create a breathing space first, conduct surveys why Kashmir has the most number of school drop outs in recent times (an extra ordinary step taken by Bangladeshi Government after a number of youths got disappeared and later found enrolled in extremist camp), carry out medical investigations about the psychological impact on Kashmiris after decade long series of bloody violence and unrest and to formulate how to heal the scars. We can not outright reject these ideas before blaming them entirely on religious extremism.

Why not do a study as to WHY they are so fascinated by Pakistan

Even when the reality of Pakistan is well known to the world

 

[scorpionx]

Oh sweet child - you dont win by playing enemy's games. Pakistan wants India to fight its own - that adds legitimacy to the cause of Kashmir.

You dont win by lighting fires in your own home but in your enemy's home, so we should look towards assimilating them and at the same time talk about getting back P0k. I think anyone who has read Ramayan would know that.

Reduce Kashmir to a Law and Order issue - thats the solution.

Invention is exhausted; reason is fatigued; experience has given judgement; but obstinacy is not yet conquered.

 

[Spectre]

That is my friend, I am stressing upon above all. Create a breathing space first, conduct surveys why Kashmir has the most number of school drop outs in recent times (an extra ordinary step taken by Bangladeshi Government after a number of youths got disappeared and later found enrolled in extremist camp), carry out medical investigations about the psychological impact on Kashmiris after decade long series of bloody violence and unrest and to formulate how to heal the scars. We can not outright reject these ideas before blaming them entirely on religious extremism.

I agree but at the same time latter should not be ignored. Religious radicalization is not a cause - Perhaps so but it is certainly a reality which we cannot deny.

Why I took an issue and created this thread is this - Many people for whatever reason are ignoring this facet of Kashmir and laying down all the blame on India's conduct.

Often times you would see doctors treating the symptoms when the underlying disease is too difficult too cure. Kashmir is like that - WE, everyone of us are at fault where the genesis of the problem is concerned BUT what can we do but take care of the symptoms when the cure is lethal. I think you know what I am getting at but not saying explicitly.

Invention is exhausted; reason is fatigued; experience has given judgement; but obstinacy is not yet conquered.

Time conquers all.

 

[livingdead]

I have only option : North India. Because my ticket to delhi is not going to be cancelled as I will lose more. Have completed kullu manali shimala. Completed Jaipur, Udayapur and Ajmer. Also Nainital, Haridwar, Dheradun etc. Have got 6 days time. So I have thought of Mt Abu, jaisalmer/jodhpur or other places of Rajasthan. One day for Golden temple/wagha border. All by road from delhi.

its a risk but if you are going alone..definitely go.... (unless there is sudden surge in violence).

 

[scorpionx]

I agree but at the same time latter should not be ignored. Religious radicalization is not a cause - Perhaps so but it is certainly a reality which we cannot deny.

Why I took an issue and created this thread is this - Many people for whatever reason are ignoring this facet of Kashmir and laying down all the blame on India's conduct.

Often times you would see doctors treating the symptoms when the underlying disease is too difficult too cure. Kashmir is like that - WE, everyone of us are at fault where the genesis of the problem is concerned BUT what can we do but take care of the symptoms when the cure is lethal. I think you know what I am getting at but not saying explicitly.



Time conquers all.

That I never deny and the growing Islamic radicalization must be dealt with strong but careful hands so that innocents don't suffer and their human rights don't get abused. (Unlike the jingoistic suggestions like by bleeding Kashmir)

 

[Spectre]

That I never deny and the growing Islamic radicalization must be dealt with strong but careful hands so that innocents don't suffer and their human rights don't get abused. (Unlike the jingoistic suggestions like by bleeding Kashmir)

Not you but the arrow was pointed elsewhere. As for bleeding Kashmir - in this case it is just a slow suicide and I personally am not a fan.

This why I despair, there is no balance anymore, either people go too far left or too far right and politicians oblige accordingly. Last centrist leader was Vajpayee but then again it was his moderation which sadly led to his downfall.

 

[thesolar65]

its a risk but if you are going alone..definitely go.... (unless there is sudden surge in violence).

No not alone, but with family. And yes, Kashmir some other time. Just waiting for the airline to call and ask us to cancel the ticket, so that we can get back full amount. But from delhi, I am thinking of Rajasthan,,,,places which we have not seen.