Jordanians celebrate the 8th anniversary of saddam Hussein execution

[Ahmed Jo]

Well monarchs in certain European countries (Monaco, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein etc.) still have actual power in theory but in practice it's not big because most European countries have a well-functioning parliament and a independent judiciary.

I agree with what you are saying in the context of the ME but ideally a monarch (head of state) can serve as a uniting force without actually displaying political powers.

Also that is a few decades away. If not longer in the case of KSA at least. There is much more political freedom in Jordan than in KSA.

Norway is a good model for a desired end result. The king is briefed by the government weekly and the government is required to hear him out. He also has the leverage of abdicating if he doesn't get his way. This happened in World War Two when hitler demanded that Norway surrender, the king said he would abdicate if the government did.

 

[Azizam]

Jordan is a great country

But I think that ousting of Saddam Hussein is wrong. It just made the whole region unstable and paved the way for the carnage that we see today. He was not an angel but he kept the country relatively stable and prevented religious extremists from gaining any power.

Why do Palestinians support Bath party? A bit strange. I thought they were hardcore Islamists like hazzy.

 

[al-Hasani]

The oil we gave them with 18$ price
Yet they love the one who killed and opressed us

But I admit that the new government are useless and losers and cowards not like the old iraqi regime

Problem with certain people in the Arab or Muslim world (and world overall) is that most are ignorant. If they grow up with a certain viewpoint it is really difficult to challenge them and force them to rethink their positions. For instance if a person mets a person of x or y origin, religion, ideology and has a bad experience with this person he or she tends to generalize.

I was a bit like that when I was younger (well I am still in my earliest 20's so I will change too -which we all should constantly). You should not really take the comments of some Jordanians seriously and Jordanians should not take comments seriously from a minority of Iraqis that wish harm to them.

I really have started not to take the internet too seriously. Most people don't act like this in real life. Many people are also saying one thing on the internet to provoke while this might not even be their real opinion.

 

[Ahmed Jo]

Problem with certain people in the Arab or Muslim world (and world overall) is that most are ignorant. If they grow up with a certain viewpoint it is really difficult to challenge them and force them to rethink their positions. I was a bit like that when I was younger (well I am still in my earliest 20's so I will change too further). You should not really take the comments of some Jordanians seriously and Jordanians should not take comments seriously from a minority of Iraqis that wish harm to them.

I really have started not to take the internet too seriously. Most people don't act like this in real life. Many people are also saying one thing on the internet to provoke while this might not even be their real opinion.

Yes, I believe those are known as 'trolls'. An example would be good ol' hazzy.

 

[Aepsilons]

Jordan is a great country

But I think that ousting of Saddam Hussein is wrong. It just made the whole region unstable and paved the way for the carnage that we see today. He was not an angel but he kept the country relatively stable and prevented religious extremists from gaining any power.

Why do Palestinians support Bath party? A bit strange. I thought they were hardcore Islamists like hazzy.

Something happened to Saddam after 1990. Something "off" happened with him, if we are to analyze his decision making process. Prior to his decision to invade Kuwait, most of the Arab World was warm with him. Then he decided to invade Kuwait, routed the Kuwait Royal Family, then he positioned most of his 600,000 Iraqi Army and its Tank Corps on the border of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. What was the intention of that? He threatened Saudi Arabia --- the largest producer of oil in OPEC -- and had occupied Kuwait. Can we really blame why Jordan's late King Hussein reacted appropriately to Saddam's unpredictable behavior ?

I'll agree with you that Saddam held Iraq together. But he became increasingly unstable and his decision making -- suspect -- later in his tenure.

 

[al-Hasani]

Jordan is a great country

But I think that ousting of Saddam Hussein is wrong. It just made the whole region unstable and paved the way for the carnage that we see today. He was not an angel but he kept the country relatively stable and prevented religious extremists from gaining any power.

Why do Palestinians support Bath party? A bit strange. I thought they were hardcore Islamists like hazzy.

The question of Saddam Hussein vis-a-vis his removal being good or bad for Iraq and the region as a whole is a difficult question to answer. It depends who you ask. If you ask the Iraqi Shia Arabs they will rejoice as they suffered under him. Same with the Kurds. If you ask most Sunni Arabs and many minorities such as Assyrians etc. they will say another thing and praise him for being secular etc. Also Saddam had different periods during his rule. At one point he was an Pan-Arabist. Then he became an Iraqi nationalist that mixed pre-Islamic Semitic history of Mesopotamia with Arab Islamic history and during and after the Iraq-Iran war he wanted to appear more religious and started a "religious campaign" within Iraq.

Iraq will be better off on the long without Saddam. I have no doubt about it. What is going on in Iraq today will just make them stronger and hopefully the Iraqi people will realize their faults and not repeat them again.

That's because Saddam Hussein was a fierce supporter of Palestine. He donated millions if not 2-3 billions to the Palestinian cause, the Palestinian community in Iraq had it better than anyone else because they received preferential treatment etc. So that's why they like him. He was one of the few leaders that actually tried to do something for the Palestinians. Whether you agree with his methods or not. He also lived heavily on anti-Zionist rhetoric which obviously appease most Palestinians.

Give this documentary a try;

P.S.: Lastly Azizam I would appreciate if you lowered your anti-Islam rhetoric. It is a shame that you paint all 1.7 billion Muslims (it seems so at least) with the same brush as a few bad apples out there or some trolls on PDF. If you want to see "real Islam" in action then go visit a sufi monastery in the mountains of Yemen for instance.

Yes, I believe those are known as 'trolls'. An example would be good ol' hazzy.

Not sure if he is a troll but he changes opinions like other people change socks. I change socks at least once a day sometimes twice if I have done sports or frequented the gym. I hope that you got the point with this comparison. I had long and serious discussions with him and I know that he is capable of serious talk but I don't agree with everything that he writes obviously or believes.

 

[Ahmed Jo]

Something happened to Saddam after 1990. Something "off" happened with him, if we are to analyze his decision making process. Prior to his decision to invade Kuwait, most of the Arab World was warm with him. Then he decided to invade Kuwait, routed the Kuwait Royal Family, then he positioned most of his 600,000 Iraqi Army and its Tank Corps on the border of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. What was the intention of that? He threatened Saudi Arabia --- the largest producer of oil in OPEC -- and had occupied Kuwait. Can we really blame why Jordan's late King Hussein reacted appropriately to Saddam's unpredictable behavior ?

I'll agree with you that Saddam held Iraq together. But he became increasingly unstable and his decision making -- suspect -- later in his tenure.

You're exactly right. After 1990 I suspect the absolute power got to him and that's why he started acting irrationally. What was the saying "absolute power corrupts absolutely" or something like that.

 

[al-Hasani]

You're exactly right. After 1990 I suspect the absolute power got to him and that's why he started acting irrationally. What was the saying "absolute power corrupts absolutely" or something like that.

He was actually an absolute ruler the second he became president in 1979.

See this video as the best example to show this;

For the non-Arabic speakers here - a shorter version;

 

[Guynextdoor2]

These who live on Iraqi oil at the same time bite the hand that feeds them

Like the arabic saying(if you feed your dog to much he will eat you)

You really liked Saddam man?

 

[Azizam]

The question of Saddam Hussein vis-a-vis his removal being good or bad for Iraq and the region as a whole is a difficult question to answer. It depends who you ask. If you ask the Iraqi Shia Arabs they will rejoice as they suffered under him. Same with the Kurds. If you ask most Sunni Arabs and many minorities such as Assyrians etc. they will say another thing and praise him for being secular etc. Also Saddam had different periods during his rule. At one point he was an Pan-Arabist. Then he became an Iraqi nationalist that mixed pre-Islamic Semitic history of Mesopotamia with Arab Islamic history and during and after the Iraq-Iran war he wanted to appear more religious and started a "religious campaign" within Iraq.

Iraq will be better off on the long without Saddam. I have no doubt about it. What is going on in Iraq today will just make them stronger and hopefully the Iraqi people will realize their faults and not repeat them again.

That's because Saddam Hussein was a fierce supporter of Palestine. He donated millions if not 2-3 billions to the Palestinian cause, the Palestinian community in Iraq had it better than anyone else because they received preferential treatment etc. So that's why they like him. He was one of the few leaders that actually tried to do something for the Palestinians. Whether you agree with his methods or not. He also lived heavily on anti-Zionist rhetoric which obviously appease most Palestinians.

Give this documentary a try;

P.S.: Lastly Azizam I would appreciate if you lowered your anti-Islam rhetoric. It is a shame that you paint all 1.7 billion Muslims (it seems so at least) with the same brush as a few bad apples out there or some trolls on PDF. If you want to see "real Islam" in action then go visit a sufi monastery in the mountains of Yemen for instance.

Not sure if he is a troll but he changes opinions like other people change socks. I change socks at least once a day sometimes twice if I have done sports or frequented the gym. I hope that you got the point with this comparison. I had long and serious discussions with him and I know that he is capable of serious talk but I don't agree with everything that he writes obviously or believes.

I'll give them a try.

I've heard that it was Iran that tried to export its revolution to nearby countries, especially Iraq by using Iraq's Shia population, and as a result of that Saddam tried to counter is by appearing religious. Is that true?

If I am the sort of person that generalises Muslims, I wouldn't like Jordan would I? I admit I was a bit harsh and will try to tone down.

Nevertheless, I believe that Islamic world is walking on a dangerous path that could be very dangerous for all of us. One way or another there should be a long term solution for this otherwise the issues are getting worse everyday. You live in Europe so I hope you know what I am talking about. The fact that there are over 1 billion Muslims in the world makes it even worse. But let's spare this thread.

Something happened to Saddam after 1990. Something "off" happened with him, if we are to analyze his decision making process. Prior to his decision to invade Kuwait, most of the Arab World was warm with him. Then he decided to invade Kuwait, routed the Kuwait Royal Family, then he positioned most of his 600,000 Iraqi Army and its Tank Corps on the border of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. What was the intention of that? He threatened Saudi Arabia --- the largest producer of oil in OPEC -- and had occupied Kuwait. Can we really blame why Jordan's late King Hussein reacted appropriately to Saddam's unpredictable behavior ?

I'll agree with you that Saddam held Iraq together. But he became increasingly unstable and his decision making -- suspect -- later in his tenure.

That's the story of almost every ruler who has enjoyed absolute power for too long. Power makes people think that they are immune to danger.

 

[al-Hasani]

I'll give them a try.

I've heard that it was Iran that tried to export its revolution to nearby countries, especially Iraq by using Iraq's Shia population, and as a result of that Saddam tried to counter is by appearing religious. Is that true?

If I am the sort of person that generalises Muslims, I wouldn't like Jordan would I? I admit I was a bit harsh and will try to tone down.

Nevertheless, I believe that Islamic world is walking on a dangerous path that could be very dangerous for all of us. One way or another there should be a long term solution for this otherwise the issues are getting worse everyday. You live in Europe so I hope you know what I am talking about. The fact that there are over 1 billion Muslims in the world makes it even worse. But let's spare this thread.


That's the story of almost every ruler who has enjoyed absolute power for too long. Power makes people think that they are immune to danger.

You should.

True. Although the birthplace of political Islam is Egypt. It's where the MB originated and many of the modern ideas of Jihadism and Islamic movements. The Jihadists that you see today are practically all following Qutbism.

Sayyid Qutb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Qutbism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hassan al-Banna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Islamism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not all Islamic movements are bad. Some are, believe it or not, democratic and do not combat democratic systems or secular systems.

Yes, Iran's version of Shia Islam is a 35 year old version of Shia Islam that intends to achieve hegemony and create proxies in Shia areas around the globe that are loyal to the "Supreme Leader and Grand Ayatollah". Most traditional Shia clergy (Najaf and Karbala are the heartland of Shia Islam) in Southern Iraq oppose and always opposed the Iranian Mullah system and rule.

You should read up on this;

Guardianship of the Islamic Jurists - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Must watch video of the good old Sayyid Ayad;

Yes, many of the Shia Islamist parties were and are getting support from Iran. They don't hide it either.

Actually what you are talking about is a tiny minority and most of such people have other problems and just use religion (their twisted violent interpretation) as a way out. Here in Copenhagen and Denmark overall there is close to no problems with Muslims. There are also only a few handful ghettos and the problems there have nothing to do with religion actually but mostly high unemployment rates and crimes. Not really that "Islamic". Not surprising when many of the migrants were war refugees or came from the lowest social classes.

In France the situation is a bit different but overall the vast, vast majority of the 5-6 million Muslims in France or people of a Muslim background are loyal and ordinary citizens. Once again the French equivalent of ghettos take all the headlines. Read up on the phenomenon of banlieues.

Banlieue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[SALMAN F]

You really liked Saddam man?

What do you mean

 

[Azizam]

@al-Hasani The only problem I have about Islam is that there is substantial numner of Muslim-majority countries in the world that has laws designed to squeeze non-Muslims in thosd countries out of existence. For instance they prohibit non-Muslim male from marrying a Muslim female and they also prohibit apostasy and as you know according to the law of those lands, children inherit religion from their father. Now this is completely unacceptable and it makes the "few bad apples in the basket" argument seem quite invalid. We constantly get told to remove Islamophobia but how about Muslims remove infedelophobia too? If non-Muslims get some breathing space in most Muslim-majority countries, I will be quite happy to agree with you.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

What do you mean

Wan't he too cruel a dictator for you guys? Plus his sons were completely out of control was it not?

 

[SALMAN F]

Wan't he too cruel a dictator for you guys? Plus his sons were completely out of control was it not?

I am against saddam did you read my post??