JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[Beast]

42%.
And why wouldn't they agree.,

Becos China own the half the right of JF-17 and u cannot do anything u want just becos you think so.

China's mistake was taking our leadership seriously. It should've treated them as the fools that they are and, in turn, pursued its own interests by finding the right people to work with from within. The right step would've been to elevate "its guys" to the top and give them the tools necessary to 'clean house' and remove the other factions. Is it invasive? Yes. Is it meddling? Absolutely. But it's a trade the U.S. and U.K have deftly used for decades to ensure their interests; if China doesn't understand it even now, then it'll lose.

China is never interested to meddle the internal politics of other country. Even like North Korea a close allies of China in the past, we all know the corrupted dynasty of Kim family that plague NK. Do we actively seek political parties in NK to rid of them?

 

[Beast]

It's not just that. In fact, that aspect of the relationship is recoverable because the U.S. will drive India to intensify its anti-China focus.

The issue is literally us. We don't have enough internal know-how and capacity to get the most out of the JF-17 program. We're reliant on China, and the Chinese aren't going to help us build our aerospace fundamentals (and rightfully so). China has zero incentive and -- be it for geo-political reasons or just keeping things simple and cost-effective -- have us buy their stuff off-the-shelf as-is.

Turkey, on the other hand, is more willing to help us build our R&D.

Why?

Because they're not as big as China (or US) where they can tap into tons of funding, or rely on domestic orders to drive economies-of-scale. They need partners and are willing to build consortiums with other countries, notably Pakistan, Malaysia, and Indonesia. The TuAF isn't going to get more than 200 MMUs, but if you factor in Pakistan, Malaysia, etc, you could get to 500 units.

However, we can't do jack because we don't have enough know-how and capacity.

So, to get to its actual goal, Turkey is willing to 'upskill' us so that we can one day support their bigger projects.

Of course, nothing's free of strings. For a start, Turkey wouldn't want any of this net-new work happening at PAC, for example. It doesn't want to deal with generals, but rather, actual engineers and other aerospace industry and management professionals. It's going to be through Turkish Aerospace's subsidiary in Pakistan and, potentially, private sector companies in Pakistan.

This JF-17 "study" could be a carrot from Turkey to help us build real fundamentals and to show AHQ that domestic R&D has to work a certain way for it to pay off. The PAF solves some of its issues (e.g., finally getting a grasp of the JF-17) and, in return, Turkey gets to shape our aerospace industry such that we support their interests (the Turks want to build their own Airbus or Boeing; a megacorp with facilities across several countries).

Absolutely poor analysis. Building fighter plane is not gonna be as straight forward as building a small drone. The sophistication of building an advance fighter plane are far greater with emphasize on hosting a manned pilot. Plus where do you suggest to get a decent power plant from who, besides China? The Russian are out of question. US is a big no no. UK and France are more or less the same political as US.

Don't tell me Turkey is going to produce a 4th gen engine soon and we know it's not going to happen.

 

[SaadH]

Solid post.

I remember you making this argument on Pakdef once and H Khan losing his mind. The Turkish train is moving very fast, and I am afraid Pakistan will miss it. From civilian projects like trains, electric vehicles, health care to military domain, Pakistan will do itself a world of favor by partnering with Turkey. But a corrupt rent-seeking elite that only knows how to milk real estate, Dubai properties and other frivolous endeavors can’t be expected to think strategically.

H Khan was/is an idiot of the highest order...a full embodiment of over the top self-aggrandizing complacency, nah rot plaguing all institutions of Pakistan, particularly the military.

 

[mingle]

His own FB profile.

U have link??? Surprise he is on FB twitter is better place

 

[cssniper]

I'm astonished to see the quarrel about PAK-CHINA cooperation here.
Did anyone just remember that Pakistan just obtain JF-17 block3 with the cooperation of China ?
The geopolitics tie between the two countries is much more reliable than some untrustwrothy gossip.
I know the PAK-Turkey relation is also very important , and it's beneficial to invite Turkey to the airplane industry of Pakistan.
But it is clearly inefficient to develop JF-17 program without the help of China.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

For the Night is Dark and full of Terrors.

 

[ghazi52]

.,.,

 

[Flight of falcon]

And who the F are you?

He had some serious psychological issues. He really needed medical help . That’s all I can say.

 

[SQ8]

Absolutely poor analysis. Building fighter plane is not gonna be as straight forward as building a small drone. The sophistication of building an advance fighter plane are far greater with emphasize on hosting a manned pilot. Plus where do you suggest to get a decent power plant from who, besides China? The Russian are out of question. US is a big no no. UK and France are more or less the same political as US.

Don't tell me Turkey is going to produce a 4th gen engine soon and we know it's not going to happen.

No - it comes from years of experience rebuilding F-16s, overhauling and understanding the engine technology.
The decent power plant will come easily from Europe, what guarantees are you giving based on what geopolitical expertise that they wont provide it?

 

[Beast]

No - it comes from years of experience rebuilding F-16s, overhauling and understanding the engine technology.
The decent power plant will come easily from Europe, what guarantees are you giving based on what geopolitical expertise that they wont provide it?

Overhaul aeroplane are different from designing one. Where do you get the airplane grade wind tunnel to verify your design and engine? These testing and verification industries? The industries to produced the require material?

If Turkey has problem getting a germam engine for it's altay tank and u think aeroengine from France or UK is different? UK is basically a lapdog of USA. France has prefer Greece for it's long term foreign affairs.

I will say it bluntly, there is no option for Turkey.

 

[SQ8]

If Turkey has problem getting a germam engine for it's altay tank and u think aeroengine from France or UK is different? UK is basically a lapdog of USA. France has prefer Greece for it's long term foreign affairs.

I will say it bluntly, there is no option for Turkey.

No, apples and oranges - the engine for the Altay is linked to Turkey and Germany looking at geopolitical issues.

UK may be a lapdog or not but its openly stated its willing to share engine research with Turkey.

And , much like China with the Al-31- Turkey can and is approved to use the F-100 to power its fighter

 

[Beast]

No, apples and oranges - the engine for the Altay is linked to Turkey and Germany looking at geopolitical issues.

UK may be a lapdog or not but its openly stated its willing to share engine research with Turkey.

And , much like China with the Al-31- Turkey can and is approved to use the F-100 to power its fighter

Openly stated to share engine research is by instituition. The UK state can easily interfere by a decree to outlaw any sales or cooperation with Turkey once US gives the command. Are you saying Roll Royce can overwrite UK parliament order? Prove it instead of cheap talk.

 

[Bossman]

Ask your mother

I did and she remembers you, you were one of the Kami kamins who with rest of your family including your mother and sisters came to pick up $hit from our dera. Our servants had a lot of fun! Enough said

He had some serious psychological issues. He really needed medical help . That’s all I can say.

You mean HKhan? Is he still in Florida?

 

[Flight of falcon]

I did and she remembers you, you were one of the Kami kamins that with rest of your family including your mother and sisters came to pick up $hit from our dera. Our servants had a lot of fun! Enough said


You mean HKhan? Is he still in Florida?

Yes after his divorce I hear he went crazy. He is very arrogant and a completely bizarre human being. He single handedly caused demise of a great defence site.

 

[arslank03]

Overhaul aeroplane are different from designing one. Where do you get the airplane grade wind tunnel to verify your design and engine? These testing and verification industries? The industries to produced the require material?

If Turkey has problem getting a germam engine for it's altay tank and u think aeroengine from France or UK is different? UK is basically a lapdog of USA. France has prefer Greece for it's long term foreign affairs.

I will say it bluntly, there is no option for Turkey.

turkey is building the second largest wind tunnel in europe for the development of TFX.