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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 5]

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JF-17 is maturing faster then we thought. It's a good sign for Pakistan and the future of our Aviation. Now I have no doubts that it will someday compete with the newest F-16s in Marketing.

I have a Question regarding the new Radar upgrade.
It is said that the range of KLJ-7V2 is around 130-140KM. What size target range is this for...... RCS 3m2 or 5m2 ?
 
actually yes, more than twice IIRC ;)

Chinese were probably going easy on JF-17, so that PAF doesn't feel bad that JF-17 isn't a very good plane? or PAF doesn't feel shitty about themselves?

I don't know, my conspiracy theory part of brain has become active all of a sudden...probably because its 5:22am here and I haven't slept yet :D

But again, how do air force know that they are benefiting from exercises and increasing their capability, or they are winning because other side isn't trying its best?

JF-17 is maturing faster then we thought. It's a good sign for Pakistan and the future of our Aviation. Now I have no doubts that it will someday compete with the newest F-16s in Marketing.

I have a Question regarding the new Radar upgrade.
It is said that the range of KLJ-7V2 is around 130-140KM. What size target range is this for...... RCS 3m2 or 5m2 ?

140km for RCS of 3m^2 seems too good.

Its the bold one.
 
2 times out of 3. Even if we don't know the flight regimes and the roes, it is still a good number.


i can tell you with certainty that Chinese pilots praised PAF's aggressive posturing during engagements. Bettering an su-27/30 in dogfight is in itself an achievement.

JF-17 is maturing faster then we thought. It's a good sign for Pakistan and the future of our Aviation. Now I have no doubts that it will someday compete with the newest F-16s in Marketing.

I have a Question regarding the new Radar upgrade.
It is said that the range of KLJ-7V2 is around 130-140KM. What size target range is this for...... RCS 3m2 or 5m2 ?


that's not yet known, maybe in some upcoming interview we might see some "shallow" figures ;)
 
JF-17 is maturing faster then we thought. It's a good sign for Pakistan and the future of our Aviation. Now I have no doubts that it will someday compete with the newest F-16s in Marketing.

I have a Question regarding the new Radar upgrade.
It is said that the range of KLJ-7V2 is around 130-140KM. What size target range is this for...... RCS 3m2 or 5m2 ?
Most probably 3m2 coz its 5m2 is already 120-140km
 
130-140km is for 5m2 the other figure in one of the interviews roughly 111 km iirc is for 3m2. The figures correlate too if I am not mistaking...
 
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JF-17 is maturing faster then we thought. It's a good sign for Pakistan and the future of our Aviation. Now I have no doubts that it will someday compete with the newest F-16s in Marketing.

I have a Question regarding the new Radar upgrade.
It is said that the range of KLJ-7V2 is around 130-140KM. What size target range is this for...... RCS 3m2 or 5m2 ?

140km for RCS of 3m^2 seems too good.

Its the bold one.

a not so old post .... on this topic by @Tempest II

130km for a 5sqm target corresponds to 114km (near enough 60nm) for 3sqm.
 
130-140km is for 5m2 the other figure in one of the interviews roughly 111 km iirc is for 3m2. The figures correlate too if I am not mistaking...

Roughly yes, I've not heard of that 140km figure before, but taking 130km for a target that shows 5m^2, a target showing 3m^2 can be detected at 114.4 km according to my calculation.

Taking 111km for 3m^2, 5m^2 comes out to be 126km.

So these are roughly in the same ball park.
 
Roughly yes, I've not heard of that 140km figure before, but taking 130km for a target that shows 5m^2, a target showing 3m^2 can be detected at 114.4 km according to my calculation.

Taking 111km for 3m^2, 5m^2 comes out to be 126km.

So these are roughly in the same ball park.

As noted in tempest's post the figure was in nautical miles, ie, 60nm. For 114.4 km that's roughly 61.77 nm. One can expect the person giving the interview rounded it up.

So it makes a lot of sense to conclude ~114km for 3 m2 and 130km for 5 m2.
 
parwaaz.jpg
 
There was also a debate last week on the forum on the H-4 with some suggesting it was an A2A weapon.

The old confusion, since some reports call it a BVR weapon, instead of Stand off weapon.

I have a Question regarding the new Radar upgrade.
It is said that the range of KLJ-7V2 is around 130-140KM. What size target range is this for...... RCS 3m2 or 5m2 ?

Puls doppler radars are evaluated against 5m2 targets and the official brochure of the KJ7 confirmed that too. The upgrade also are meant to add more radar modes, not the detection range, or a new technology, it's still the same radar.
 
Just found this interesting information..

F-17 THUNDER (FC-1/ Super-7)


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Type: Single seat Multi-role Day/Night all weather light weight Fighter

History:

The origins of Super-7 programme can be traced back to the early 1980s, when Pakistan was looking for a new fighter to replace the F-6. The PAF initiated project Sabre II, to upgrade the Chengdu F-7M with a Western engine and Avionics. In January 1987, Grumman Aerospace of US was selected as the main contractor and several other western companies competed to provide the engine and avionics. However, by 1989 the project costs had escalated and the project was deemed a high financial risk by the PAF. In addition, the Chinese relations with the West broke down following the Tiananmen Square protest. Therefore the “Sabre II” project was cancelled. However, Chengdu continued it efforts to improve the F-7M airframe by re-designing air intakes on the sides of the fuselage etc. hence the name Super-7.

The PAF opted for a less ambitious option of acquiring the F-7P Skybolt, an upgraded version of the F-7M. The programme was to support the fleet of F-7P Skybolts with over a 100 F-16 Fighting Falcons.

In the meantime the US was frustrated with Pakistan 's refusal to stop its nuclear weapons development programme and in1990, US imposed military and economic sanctions under the Pressler amendments. This prevented the delivery of F-16s to the PAF, which Pakistan had already paid for.

The PAF was still looking for a modern and capable aircraft to replace the F-6. In February 1992 China Aero Technology Import Corporation invited the PAF to invest in the FC-1 programme, in return Pakistan would enjoy exclusive co-production rights. The PAF got Government approval in October1994 and Pakistan joined the FC-1 programme in1995. Pakistan was to select a Western company by the end of 1995 to provide and integrate the avionics for the FC-1. A letter of Intent (LOI) was signed between Pakistan and China in February 1998 covering airframe development, Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation was selected as primary contractor and Mikoyan Aero-Science Production Group of Russia was contracted to provide the Klimov RD-93 turbofan engine.

The design work progressed very slowly over the next 18 months due to the US and Western sanctions against Pakistan following Pakistan 's nuclear tests in May 1998. This also prevented delivery of any avionic systems to the PAF from Western companies.

In June 1999 Pakistan and China signed a joint development and production agreement to co-develop the FC-1 on a 50-50 partnership. As stated above the project was moving extremely slowly, until in 2001 when the PAF made a major decision to separate the development of the platform from the avionic systems. From that moment on the project started to make progress. It is worth remembering that separating the development of airframe from the avionic systems in 2001 was largely due to the visionary approach of the late Air Chief Marshall Mushaf Ali Mir.

Pakistan named the aircraft “Thunder” and gave it the designation “JF-17” (Joint Fighter 17). The JF-17 will replace the current and aging fleet of A-5s, F-7s and Mirages by 2015. With its multi-role all weather ability the JF-17 is suitable for land, sea and air operations.
 
H-4 is so confusing... so many contradictory articles!!!




Pakistan tests air-to-air missile
From Our Correspondent
ISLAMABAD — Pakistan successfully test-fired an indigenously manufactured, air to air, anti-aircraft missile on Monday.
According to the credible sources, the missile, fired from a fighter jet, successfully targeted a flying object. This H-4 missile is made by a subsidiary organisation of NESCOM and it is the most advanced version of H missiles.
According to the sources the missile was fired on its target from a Mirage plane over the Arabian Sea. One of the salient feature of the H-4 missile is that it can hit even the out of sight target. The successful experiment of the air to air missile will go a long way in countering the enemy’s air supremacy

http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/april-2003/22/main/top10.asp


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Published 2003-12-18 00:00:00
ISLAMABAD, Dec 17: Pakistan Air Force has integrated the H-4 out-of-sight target bombs in its arsenal of fighter aircraft, official sources said.

The incorporation of H-4 bombs have added to the capability of the PAF to hit out-of-sight targets from a distance of up to 120 kilometres to evade enemy radars during air strikes. A lighter version of the bomb, H-2 model, can hit the out-of-sight targets from a range of up to 60 kilometres.

“It is a step towards adding the Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missiles to our arsenal for defensive purposes and to address the strategic imbalance in the region,” sources said.

The indigenously produced H-4 bombs is an achievement of the National Engineering and Scientific Commission (NESCOM), which works in close collaboration with Pakistan Missile Organization and the Air Weapons Complex.

“Three successful tests of H-4, with the latest conducted this year, produced satisfactory results leading to addition of arsenal in the fighter jets,” the sources said.

The H-4 bombs have been made through indigenous efforts by modifying the technological design of South African T-Darter BVR missiles. Till the induction of JF-17 Thunder in 2006, with a provision for BVRs, the H-2 and H-4 bombs could be carried by Mirage fighter jets. The H-4 infrared device is said to be comparable to that of the AA11, AA12 and Python 4 in the Indian arsenal.

Moreover, the sources said, fighter aircraft in PAF’s arsenal have the “provision” to be fitted with precision-guided munitions and BVR missiles.

When asked about advantages of BVR in Indian arsenal, PAF spokesperson Air Commodore Sarfaraz said: “We are aggressively trying to utilize whatever equipment we have to its optimum operational limits through professional training and by pursuing high standards of maintenance.”

Mr Sarfaraz said: “We are aware of our technological needs and are vigorously trying to meet those requirements either through procurements or indigenous developments.”

The European and the US suppliers were currently not willing to share the technology with Pakistan. However, contacts were being established with China, defence sources said, adding that JF-17 Thunder (to be inducted in 2006), F-16s and the Mirage aircraft in Pakistan’s fleet all had the provision to be fitted with BVRs once the technology and the missiles would be acquired.

PAF adds new bombs to its arsenal - DAWN.COM

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Air Weapons The PAF is also looking for an advanced weapons package to accompany its new advanced fighters. It expects that AMRAAM and JDAM will part of a future F-16 sale, and also expects that either European or Chinese advanced weapons will accompany a potential JAS-39 or J-10 purchase. But in the meantime Pakistan is also trying to develop its own advanced aircraft weapons. Some reports mention a project called "H-4," which appears to be a long-range precision guided bomb. Some sources speculate that South Africa’s 300km range MUPSOW or Torgos turbojet powered cruise missile may be the template for the H-4, while another source speculates it has a range of 120km. The smaller South African Raptor may be the basis for the "H-2" guided bomb has a range of 60km. Pakistani officials say this weapon is in service. Regarding air-to-air weapons, Pakistani officials noted their current commitment to active-guided BVR missiles. They noted a previous attempt to develop a semi-active guided AAM, but had discarded this program. Other recent reports note after long doubts that this program had succeeded, that China did develop a semi-active guided missile during the 1990s called the PL-11 that was based on captured U.S. and purchased Italian AAMs.


International Assessment and Strategy Center > Research > Report On the International Defense Exhibition and Seminar (IDEAS)

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Pak Air Force inducts BVR missiles
PTIDec 18, 2003, 04.45pm IST
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ISLAMABAD: Pakistan Air Force has inducted H-4 Beyond Visual Range missile which could strike a target from a distance of 120 km without visually citing it, evading enemy radars.

"It is a step towards adding the Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missiles to our arsenal for defensive purposes and to address the strategic imbalance in the region," Pakistan daily Dawn quoted PAF officials as saying.

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http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2003-12-18/pakistan/27196693_1_missiles-pakistan-air-force-inducts

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Denel of South Africa is offering Pakistan a package of air-to-air weaponry for its planned Chengdu Super 7 fighter being jointly developed with China. It includes a proposed joint development of a datalink-equipped radar-guided beyond visual range (BVR) missile.

The Pakistan air force confirms it is evaluating a range of active-guided BVR missiles, including the newly proposed T-Darter development by Denel's Kentron. The air force's Super 7 chief project director, Air Vice Marshal Hamid Khawaja, describes the South African missile as "very impressive on paper".

T-Darter is understood to be a further development of Kentron's radar-equipped R-Darter now in low-rate production and Ramjet-powered S-Darter or LRAAM. The new proposed air-breathing missile would incorporate a datalink for mid-course guidance updates and effective target engagements at ranges in excess of 50km (27nm).

Denel offers Pakistan missile deal - 2/24/1999 - Flight Global

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