JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 5]

[Munir]

Thanx. Our journalists at their best. Can't get their facts straight in defense reportings and that 13.143 was not at Dubai show

So the road so far in JF-17 program.

11-136 was last JF-17 produced in 2011.

12-137 to 12-142, 5 JF-17's produced in 2012

13-143 to 13-150 8 JF-17 produced in 2013

Things were pretty bad for PAF that they had to make a such a drastic cut in JF-17 project and It does show why third Squadron of JF-17 is being put on hold uptill now. Due to very low rate of production

Correct, and this is put aside as a minor problem. The only advantages I see is improving block2 more then previous planned. And probably PAF only wanted to have 3 squadrons that have basic capabilities.

The real issue, besides financial, was the wing testing that had to be done after the crash. Maybe they invested the time in replacing the other wings...

 

[Bratva]

Will JF-17 fail to stop if it didn't had that shute? Are the brakes of JF-17 not effective enough to make it stop?

Parachutes are deployed so brakes don't wear out too much and too early. It's a headache and time consuming process to replace air brakes

 

[SBD-3]

Parachutes are deployed so brakes don't wear out too much and too early. It's a headache and time consuming process to replace air brakes

Rather tyres I guess...

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

Will JF-17 fail to stop if it didn't had that shute? Are the brakes of JF-17 not effective enough to make it stop?

At DAS-2011 after the air display JF-17 landed smoothly without even deploying air brakes let alone the chute.
Pilot slow the aircraft down using the horizontal stabilators.

 

[A.Rafay]

At DAS-2011 after the air display JF-17 landed smoothly without even deploying air brakes let alone the chute.
Pilot slow the aircraft down using the horizontal stabilators.

So the chute is optional.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

Introducing 13-143.

Notice no squadron insignia, most likely the candidate for Naval Squadron

"Tails Choppers" is the next sqn. going to have JF-17 as reported by Alan Warns. First batch of Blk-II probably replace Mirage-VPA3 or stand side by side with them as those Mirages are not very old compared to many other in our inventory. Block-I aircrafts are not really integrated with Naval Warfare / Weapons etc.

Is this the one which was on static display?

13-143 never left for Dubai.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

So the chute is optional.

No, I don't think so.
Drag chute has been used in most of the PAF fighter planes kinds and thats why they opted the same for F-16 Blk-52. Drag Chute reduces the wear n tear of landing gear and air brakes to considerable extent.
It shows the ability of JF-17 that it can land and stops by alternative ways but drag chute is prefered over others.

 

[SBD-3]

Block-I aircrafts are not really integrated with Naval Warfare / Weapons etc.

If that's true then this denies JF-17 Project Manager's statement that "ACM-400 is in service with PAF"

 

[Imran Khan]

If that's true then this denies JF-17 Project Manager's statement that "ACM-400 is in service with PAF"

her shakh per uloo betha hai gulshan ka khuda hafiz

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

If that's true then this denies JF-17 Project Manager's statement that "ACM-400 is in service with PAF"

Similar statement came for SD-10 as well. I went to IDEAS'12 and talked to a JFT pilot about SD-10 & MAR-1 integration and his reply was "IN PROGRESS".
After Kamra attack we have see how much truth they deliver actually. I personally take PAF personals statements with a pinch of salt and believe in facts and figures or if some sort of proof comes up.

We have seen PT-06 undergone several weapon tests and integration but how many have we seen on PT-04. As far as I remember only fuel tank and bomb drops etc. I've been saying this since long that Block-2 is actually based on PT-06 as Block-1 was on PT-04 because it's the only thunder we have seen with full multirole capabilities. I've been saying this since the people here thought Block-2 would be a spaceship or alien craft. lol
Picture is quite clear now as we know what upgrades block-2 is getting and PT-06 seems to have every thing that block-2 is suppose to have except the IFR probe but very little is known about PT-06. One more thing to mention is that PT-06 is out of the scene for long and I am expecting to see it wearing PAF colors just like PT-04 someday, at Kamra.

Many won't agree with me over PT-06 story but time will clear all the things.

 

[Bratva]

Similar statement came for SD-10 as well. I went to IDEAS'12 and talked to a JFT pilot about SD-10 & MAR-1 integration and his reply was "IN PROGRESS".
After Kamra attack we have see how much truth they deliver actually. I personally take PAF personals statements with a pinch of salt and believe in facts and figures or if some sort of proof comes up.

We have seen PT-06 undergone several weapon tests and integration but how many have we seen on PT-04. As far as I remember only fuel tank and bomb drops etc. I've been saying this since long that Block-2 is actually based on PT-06 as Block-1 was on PT-04 because it's the only thunder we have seen with full multirole capabilities. I've been saying this since the people here thought Block-2 would be a spaceship or alien craft. lol
Picture is quite clear now as we know what upgrades block-2 is getting and PT-06 seems to have every thing that block-2 is suppose to have except the IFR probe but very little is known about PT-06. One more thing to mention is that PT-06 is out of the scene for long and I am expecting to see it wearing PAF colors just like PT-04 someday, at Kamra.

Many won't agree with me over PT-06 story but time will clear all the things.

In essence Block-1 can not fire SD-10 or any PGM's.

If that's true then this denies JF-17 Project Manager's statement that "ACM-400 is in service with PAF"

Whatever PGM's or BVR they tested, It is all tested on PT-06. Since PAF officials tactfully claimed all the firings on PT-06 as JF-17 can do this or that. But as danger-zone said, it is becoming clear JF-17 block 1 can only fire dumb bombs and PL-9 missiles.

And as per Project director statement, some of the capabilities of block 2 will be introduced in block 1 can be interpreted as SD-10 A capability would be added later on in block 1.

Hence all in all or in a nutshell, PAF has been deceiving the the general populace ( read phuudu lagana) on many issues. About Block 1 capability, About AWACS fiasco, About 3rd squadron not standing up due to "administrative issue" while not admitting their production capacity is running very low due to "unknown reasons"

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

In essence Block-1 can not fire SD-10 or any PGM's.



Whatever PGM's or BVR they tested, It is all tested on PT-06. Since PAF officials tactfully claimed all the firings on PT-06 as JF-17 can do this or that. But as danger-zone said, it is becoming clear JF-17 block 1 can only fire dumb bombs and PL-9 missiles.

And as per Project director statement, some of the capabilities of block 2 will be introduced in block 1 can be interpreted as SD-10 A capability would be added later on in block 1.

Hence all in all or in a nutshell, PAF has been deceiving the the general populace ( read phuudu lagana) on many issues. About Block 1 capability, About AWACS fiasco, About 3rd squadron not standing up due to "administrative issue" while not admitting their production capacity is running very low due to "unknown reasons"

Yes, they actually followed / aimed F-16 programme for JF-17 .... All the old ones will be upgraded to newer version later on.

 

[Gryphon]

First batch of Blk-II probably replace Mirage-VPA3 or stand side by side with them as those Mirages are not very old compared to many other in our inventory.

Fish,, Where did you come to know that ??

Mirages III / V (Including ROSE) will stay in service at least till 2017. PAF has 5 F-7P squadrons to replace with JF-17. This will be followed by F-7PG or Mirages (excluding ROSE)...

Have you seen reports that (some) Mirages are being upgraded with an air-to-air capability and are capable of firing R-Darter BVR missiles? Besides, PAF has got a new supply of spares...

 

[SBD-3]

Have you seen reports that (some) Mirages are being upgraded with an air-to-air capability and are capable of firing R-Darter BVR missiles? Besides, PAF has got a new supply of spares...

I heard about PAF purchasing MAA-1(A or B?) from Brazil.What other spares were purchased by PAF? (I can think of purchasing RAAF Mirages for cannibalization)

 

[Donatello]

In essence Block-1 can not fire SD-10 or any PGM's.



Whatever PGM's or BVR they tested, It is all tested on PT-06. Since PAF officials tactfully claimed all the firings on PT-06 as JF-17 can do this or that. But as danger-zone said, it is becoming clear JF-17 block 1 can only fire dumb bombs and PL-9 missiles.

And as per Project director statement, some of the capabilities of block 2 will be introduced in block 1 can be interpreted as SD-10 A capability would be added later on in block 1.

Hence all in all or in a nutshell, PAF has been deceiving the the general populace ( read phuudu lagana) on many issues. About Block 1 capability, About AWACS fiasco, About 3rd squadron not standing up due to "administrative issue" while not admitting their production capacity is running very low due to "unknown reasons"

Mafiya,

This post of yours was neither expected nor required of you.

A missile test is not a simple test. It's not like you can fire a missile at a dummy target and say it is integrated. It will take multiple firings from many different parameters to make sure the missiles fire properly.

For example, firing SD-10 from 20 km range to target, is way different to firing it from 50km.
Firing SD-10 at 50,000 ft while going mach 0.9 is different to firing it at say 30,000ft.

Same thing with stand-off weapons.


They have to be tested in ECCM and ELINT environments, check and re check that the rocket motors fire and perform as expected.

AIM-120-C5 amraam costs about $700,000-1million $, but still does not have a 100% kill probability.