JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]
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cw2005
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I have no doubt that Mr. Khan loves Pakistan as much as, if not more than, anyone living there. As a foreigner living in USA, he would have many times been discriminated or at least looked upon with discriminatory eyes. He definitely wants Pakistan to be good, to be strong and to be powerful. As a professional salesman, Mr. Khan needs to talk with confidence because marketing a product and marketing an idea is similar. I believe this forum provides chance for members to voice their opinion and thinking. As far as this is served and the voice is heard, criticism and counter opinion could be neglected. I am not taking side with Mr. Khan as he has been more than once criticizing me. I enjoy so much on this forum and you guys have been doing great jobs to keep it informative. Anyway, let us get back to the JF-17 matter.
muse
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If the criticism is true, then let it makes us stronger. Criticism allows us the opportunity to refine our ideas, our products. Why hide from criticism, we should welcome it and allow it to challenege us and we should challenege in return -- It does nto matter from whom the criticism comes from, what matters is it's content, whether it rings true or not.
Today, we are very pleased with the progress of the JF17, but much needs to be done and all of it requires quality education and research and develoment facilities, indeed, a R&D culture is required if we are to survive and compete - this is just reality, no need to get so hot over this fact.
Pakistani scientists and engineers are working in almost every private and public enterprise in the West, they are afforded greater opportunity -- Wouldn't you like to see ever higher quality of education, R&D and opportunites for Pakistani scientists and engineers inside Pakistan? If yes, what then is your beef with criticism that is calling for just that?
We have to move into every facet of aircraft, helicoper, ship and most importantly propulsion systems and avionics and sensory equipment - we are taking baby or first steps and the road ahead full of excitment and expectations, success, failures and all of it learning - lets get on with that with the realization that we need higher quality education, and R&D culture and better opportunities fo rPakistani scientists and engineers.
Today, we are very pleased with the progress of the JF17, but much needs to be done and all of it requires quality education and research and develoment facilities, indeed, a R&D culture is required if we are to survive and compete - this is just reality, no need to get so hot over this fact.
Pakistani scientists and engineers are working in almost every private and public enterprise in the West, they are afforded greater opportunity -- Wouldn't you like to see ever higher quality of education, R&D and opportunites for Pakistani scientists and engineers inside Pakistan? If yes, what then is your beef with criticism that is calling for just that?
We have to move into every facet of aircraft, helicoper, ship and most importantly propulsion systems and avionics and sensory equipment - we are taking baby or first steps and the road ahead full of excitment and expectations, success, failures and all of it learning - lets get on with that with the realization that we need higher quality education, and R&D culture and better opportunities fo rPakistani scientists and engineers.
araz
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This is true every where.Theoretical knowledge does not prepare you for the real world. Whenever you take your first steps in the real world, you have to struggle .Our problem stems from a hsot of problems some pointed out by Mastan. Add to that the menace of sifaarish and we have a nasty couldren of inefficiency. We lack resources for true research . however, within selected fields when we have put our minds to it we have done well. We produce top notch students however loose most of them to west due to lack of resources and opportunities.
Araz
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That was my point, we have minds but we can't flourish them due to many reasons.
We need to invest in research and we need to prepare our children that way. For that, change the grass root education system. When our education system will be at par of Germany or any other developed country, only than we will be able to produce thinkers and colourful scientists.
Salam to All who willing to give answers of my question and also who dont.
I dont want to make a battle b/w you i have some questions and i ask simply them and wants the answers in the same way, because i think that u peoples are the having the knowledge of known and those which many people not, but unfortunately i am not get the answers.
I am searching about supercomputer in pakistan and the answer what i found is that we dont have any type of this facility, and its a question mark to us to pakistan, to(nuclear, missile, other strategic programs) because these cannot be done without having the supercomputers.
If any one willing to give me answer i will be happy but if not please ignore this post.
W Salam
Danishwer
I dont want to make a battle b/w you i have some questions and i ask simply them and wants the answers in the same way, because i think that u peoples are the having the knowledge of known and those which many people not, but unfortunately i am not get the answers.
I am searching about supercomputer in pakistan and the answer what i found is that we dont have any type of this facility, and its a question mark to us to pakistan, to(nuclear, missile, other strategic programs) because these cannot be done without having the supercomputers.
If any one willing to give me answer i will be happy but if not please ignore this post.
W Salam
Danishwer
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Look now ....
1. you are looking for a super computer in Pakistan on a defense website and in the aviation section.
2. Did you try and SEARCH the forums for those keywords before bursting on the thread with questions ?
3. Did you try and teach your self some thing about super computers? or are you going to be a lazy azz and want mommy to feed and and clean ur diaper here when Uncle Google is only a click away.
Lastly try not to take offense, for I didn't take any for making me scroll 2 pages and still not getting info that I enjoy.
I am all for criticism and I am very critical myself but we should do focused, informed and constructive criticism and just not make generalization. We all know how much of a mess our educational, economic and social sectors are in but there are also significant pockets of excellance. The problem with Mastaan is that he makes incorrect statements while pretending to be authority and an expert. What really riled me up what his specific statement on metallurgy and his statement that it doesn't exist as a discpline in the country. Nuf said
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Dear first of all please behave urself and ur language.
Im just post about the project 33 and after getting reply i post this question with others.
for kind information the major application of super computer is military including space and aviation and metrology. so i dont think so its irrelevant question.
and if u dont have the manners dont post anything cause the otherone can also do the same and its make the forum ..........
I want this post to come in the knowledge of administrator.
start your research from here:
To Design And Develop Supercomputer, Using Parallel Processing Techniques, For Application in High Energy Physics - Pakistan Research Repository
This repository of academic papers, one of many that I am aware of point to the level research done in Pakistan. It has been a challenge for Pakistan to get super computers off the shelf due to sanctions but it has been building and using parrallel clusters for decades.
Also check these out:
http://research.nust.edu.pk/Reseach-Papers.aspx
http://www.pieas.edu.pk/research/oncampusresearch.php
http://www.sms.edu.pk/ASSMSJournals.php
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hataf
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do you have eyes . . . . . .
the thread name is . . . . . Re: JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]
and you are asking about computers
and for your first question i have replied that you need to go through previous posts and you will have your answer . . . .
i think you need to change your name . . . .
because you are not living up to it . . . . .
but if you insist and want help ......
The JF-17 was designed and developed jointly by China's Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation (CAC), the Pakistan Air Force and Pakistan's Pakistan Aeronautical Complex. The project cost was approximately US$500 million,[2] shared equally by China and Pakistan.
Successor to the Sabre II Project
The J-17 project was commenced after China and Pakistan abandoned the Sabre II Project based on the F-7 when the third partner, Grumman Aerospace Corporation, pulled out in 1991 following the political fallout from the Tiananmen Square protests in China in 1989.
The JF-17 project, being an altogether new project not based on the F-7, did not originate from the Sabre II project, but it was the successor to the Sabre II project.
Launch of the FC-1/Super-7 Project
After the abandonment of the Sabre II Project, CAC continued further independent studies into modifying the F-7 by providing low-level funding from its own resources.
In 1991, China launched a project for the modification of the F-7 and re-branded it as the "FC-1" (local designation) or "Super-7" (for export).[17] The F-7 was further modified with the delta wings of the F-7 replaced by new wings of cropped-delta planform, featuring a pair of hardpoints on the wing-tips and leading edge root extensions blending the wings, side-mounted air intakes and fuselage.
Requiring a more capable and modern fighter to replace its fleet of F-7P, A-5C and Mirage III/V,[18] the PAF high command debated joining the Super 7/FC-1 project. The PAF informed the Chinese that it would only be willing to join the FC-1/Super-7 project if was based on a completely new design and not on the F-7. The Chinese agreed to this proposal.
In 1995, memorandum of understanding (MoU) was signed between Pakistan and China for joint design and development of a new fighter. Pakistan and China worked out the project details over the next few years.[19] In June 1995 it was reported that Mikoyan MAPO had joined CAC on the project to provide design support, believed to be using experience from their "Izdeliye 33" (English: "Project 33") design, a small single-engine fighter similar to the FC-1/Super 7.[20] However, there is no evidence to substantiate this claim.
In October 1995 it was reported that Pakistan was to select a Western company by the end of the year which would provide and integrate the avionics for FC-1, which was expected to go into production by 1999. The avionics were stated to include radar, INS, HUD and MFD. Competing for the contracts were Thomson-CSF with a variant of the RDY radar, Sagem with avionics similar to those used in the ROSE upgrade programme and GEC-Marconi with the new Blue Hawk radar, but FIAR (now SELEX Galileo) was expected to win the radar contract with the Grifo S7 because the PAF had already upgraded F-7 and Mirage III fighters with the Grifo 7 and Grifo M3 radars.[21]
After a period of little activity, a letter of intent (LOI) covering airframe development was signed in Beijing by Pakistan and China in mid-February 1998. Russia's Klimov was reported to be offering a variant of the RD-33 turbofan engine to power the fighter and a mock-up of the cockpit was put on display at the Singapore air show.[22]
In June 1999 the contract to co-develop and produce the Chengdu FC-1/Super 7 was signed during a visit to Beijing by then Prime Minister of Pakistan Nawaz Sharif and Chinese premier Zhu Rongji. The project was to be a 50-50 partnership with the air forces of both Pakistan and China being committed to ordering the fighter. Avionics suites were being proposed by FIAR and Thomson-CSF, based on the Grifo S7 and RC400 radars respectively,[23] after GEC-Marconi had abandoned the bidding to supply an integrated avionics suite including INS, MFD, HUD and mission computer, despite previously hoping to use the PAF's Super 7 to launch its new Blue Hawk radar.[24] Design work progressed very slowly over the next 18 months due to sanctions, placed on Pakistan after the country's May 1998 nuclear tests, preventing delivery of the advanced Western avionics systems to the PAF.
In early 2001, however, a major decision was taken by the PAF to de-couple the platform (airframe) from the avionics systems, enabling design work on the aircraft to continue. An added advantage would be that as the platform was developed, any new avionics requirements by the PAF could easily be catered for, not easily possible had the aircraft been designed for late-1990s era avionics.[19] Prototype production began in September 2002 and a full size mock-up of the FC-1/Super 7 was displayed at Airshow China in November 2002.[25] The first batch of Klimov RD-93 turbofan engines that would power the prototypes was also delivered in 2002.[17]
It has been reported by a Chinese source that use of modern computer aided design (CAD) software, likely the French CATIA package, shortened the design phase of the JF-17 as well as the dual-seat model of the Chengdu J-10.[26]
JF-17 Thunder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Just for your info Danishwear, There are three operational supercomputers in Pakistan, two in NESCOM and one elsewhere.
However, for your information, Our missiles were developed by nuclear scientists who had little know how of Missiles, they spent months reading up on literature and experimenting without any so called super computers and result is the Shaheen series of missile systems.
Our Nuclear program has a similar background, sometimes its better to just read about the wheel and make one instead of worrying about reinventing it.
You dont need a supercomputer every time to make such things, I suggest you let it sink in and stop worrying about supercomputer deficiencies.
And as far as Project 33 is concerned, it had little or nothing to do with the JF-17, the general configuration used by the JF is actually a very good approach for a light fighter. The only influence it had was in the approach for the design, otherwise most of the JF has elements borrowed from the F-16 and some by observation of other jets, resulting in a very effective design.
Otherwise if anything, the lineage of the JF is extremely diverse, starting with the Mig-21, to the Sabre-II, then the parallel super 7 project.. and it would go on.
However, for your information, Our missiles were developed by nuclear scientists who had little know how of Missiles, they spent months reading up on literature and experimenting without any so called super computers and result is the Shaheen series of missile systems.
Our Nuclear program has a similar background, sometimes its better to just read about the wheel and make one instead of worrying about reinventing it.
You dont need a supercomputer every time to make such things, I suggest you let it sink in and stop worrying about supercomputer deficiencies.
And as far as Project 33 is concerned, it had little or nothing to do with the JF-17, the general configuration used by the JF is actually a very good approach for a light fighter. The only influence it had was in the approach for the design, otherwise most of the JF has elements borrowed from the F-16 and some by observation of other jets, resulting in a very effective design.
Otherwise if anything, the lineage of the JF is extremely diverse, starting with the Mig-21, to the Sabre-II, then the parallel super 7 project.. and it would go on.
MastanKhan
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Hi,
A lot of people when they see something they don't like, they start seeing red in front of their eyes---that is termed as protecting something that has deficiencies---but ego stops us from from making an admission.
What I am telling you guys is to LIBERATE YOURSELF---open yourself up---understand and accept the shortcomings---and don't fight for FAKE PRIDE. Think with a free mind---think and act without a holier than thou attitude.
You people think that putting BAND AIDS over septic sores is going to heal the wounds---and act as if they don't exist.
Coming back---JF 17---a $500 million project tells a lot about the mindset of its designers and manufacturers. There is nothing original about this project---and there ought to be no shame in admitting it---as a matter of fact it ought to be a matter of pride and honor.
Why a matter of pride---because with our limited resources and energy---we and our friends were able to make something for us that has quite a bit of potency in it.
As Santro mentioned----this aircraft is a product of knowing the F 16---the F 7 PG---the mirage---the Grippen---. I beleive that the JF 17 didnot have the bubble canopy because the swedes would really really have been mad at us if it did---. As I have mentioned many a times that pak millitary industrial complex is not into re-inventing the wheel but rather carrying the baton forward on the run.
Regarding our nuclear program---it is otherwise---our engineers were very well trained in the U S , britain, ---my uncle one of the pioneers of nuc program of pakistan and chief engr of installing the nuc reactor in iran at the end of the Shah's regime---a highly trained scientist was trained in britain and u s---. He worked in the U S at a nuclear reactor in the 60's and one of the 100 who is who nuc scientist in the world---. He got ofered a job by israel at that time---got scared and ran back to pakistan.
All the pak nuc scientists were very well trained scientists by the british and the americans. Their work hours in pakistan were based on their similiar habbits of working in the U S---same hours---same number of working days---same number of days off---exactly the same setup that they had in the U S and britain---this is out of first hand knowledge.
Our nuc scientists of that era had an extremely sound knowledge of science and technology---their exposure to working in the world environment made them superstars----.
And you know what----MY UNCLE USED TO SAY THE SAME THING TO ME AT THAT TIME WHAT I AM SAYING TO YOU--he would say---we have nothing---we have no infrastructure---we are lacking in basic fundamentals---we are lackadaisical---we beleive in fake prophets---we create demigods and when our beliefs are shattered---and guess what---I would come back at him swinging---just like you are at me---.
I had a very hatefull relationship with that man---I was as angry as anyone is with me for saying that we are incompetent. Now with time and work experience---I am where he was 30 years ago---and I can admit without any shame that I was wrong---and it does not make me any lesser of a man.
Some of you should do the same---. The first step towards recovery from admitting that there is a problem---.
A lot of people when they see something they don't like, they start seeing red in front of their eyes---that is termed as protecting something that has deficiencies---but ego stops us from from making an admission.
What I am telling you guys is to LIBERATE YOURSELF---open yourself up---understand and accept the shortcomings---and don't fight for FAKE PRIDE. Think with a free mind---think and act without a holier than thou attitude.
You people think that putting BAND AIDS over septic sores is going to heal the wounds---and act as if they don't exist.
Coming back---JF 17---a $500 million project tells a lot about the mindset of its designers and manufacturers. There is nothing original about this project---and there ought to be no shame in admitting it---as a matter of fact it ought to be a matter of pride and honor.
Why a matter of pride---because with our limited resources and energy---we and our friends were able to make something for us that has quite a bit of potency in it.
As Santro mentioned----this aircraft is a product of knowing the F 16---the F 7 PG---the mirage---the Grippen---. I beleive that the JF 17 didnot have the bubble canopy because the swedes would really really have been mad at us if it did---. As I have mentioned many a times that pak millitary industrial complex is not into re-inventing the wheel but rather carrying the baton forward on the run.
Regarding our nuclear program---it is otherwise---our engineers were very well trained in the U S , britain, ---my uncle one of the pioneers of nuc program of pakistan and chief engr of installing the nuc reactor in iran at the end of the Shah's regime---a highly trained scientist was trained in britain and u s---. He worked in the U S at a nuclear reactor in the 60's and one of the 100 who is who nuc scientist in the world---. He got ofered a job by israel at that time---got scared and ran back to pakistan.
All the pak nuc scientists were very well trained scientists by the british and the americans. Their work hours in pakistan were based on their similiar habbits of working in the U S---same hours---same number of working days---same number of days off---exactly the same setup that they had in the U S and britain---this is out of first hand knowledge.
Our nuc scientists of that era had an extremely sound knowledge of science and technology---their exposure to working in the world environment made them superstars----.
And you know what----MY UNCLE USED TO SAY THE SAME THING TO ME AT THAT TIME WHAT I AM SAYING TO YOU--he would say---we have nothing---we have no infrastructure---we are lacking in basic fundamentals---we are lackadaisical---we beleive in fake prophets---we create demigods and when our beliefs are shattered---and guess what---I would come back at him swinging---just like you are at me---.
I had a very hatefull relationship with that man---I was as angry as anyone is with me for saying that we are incompetent. Now with time and work experience---I am where he was 30 years ago---and I can admit without any shame that I was wrong---and it does not make me any lesser of a man.
Some of you should do the same---. The first step towards recovery from admitting that there is a problem---.
SekrutYakhni
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I have learned one thing in my life!
Do not close the doors of learning. Once you put your ego upfront, your demise is inevitable. Pakistan is not a great country rather a third world country. However, this criticism is like a bullet which will help people wake up. Educated oversees Pakistanis are like gem in your plate, trust me. Let the flood of knowledge come in (Oversees Pakistanis), let it destroy the bad minds because at last the flood of knowledge will act like a fertilizer.
All the genius minds (Pakistani) got their education from abroad which means that their are serious lapse in local education system.
Do not close the doors of learning. Once you put your ego upfront, your demise is inevitable. Pakistan is not a great country rather a third world country. However, this criticism is like a bullet which will help people wake up. Educated oversees Pakistanis are like gem in your plate, trust me. Let the flood of knowledge come in (Oversees Pakistanis), let it destroy the bad minds because at last the flood of knowledge will act like a fertilizer.
All the genius minds (Pakistani) got their education from abroad which means that their are serious lapse in local education system.
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