JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[Umair Nawaz]

Actually check my join date and number of posts. I have spent enough time here. Go yourself to wiki page of Raad. I went and searched for "terrain" and did not find any match. Sure there are terrain hugging claims for babur, but they always quote one official statement which mentions babur to be a low flying, terrain hugging missile. Other than that, no info on these missiles.



If you did not agree with me, you should have proved me wrong, instead of insulting me for no reason.

Prove u wrong
ru crazy or something, just having 381 posts n join date of October 2011 dont make u scientist here.
These things r those which r giving a big pain in yr backs thats why we c u going again n again for BMDs or ADS or more sophisticated aircrafts.
Moreover the r military weapons which r kept secret in our country so its obvious u will never know abt full capabilities abt them, until or unless the will fall in yr homes in the future with a nuke warhead

 

[abdulbarijan]

Do indians have doubt that brahmos is not a super sonic missile ....NO

Do indians have doubt that there might be corruption in army....YES



Did i say they are anti ship?? You said Babur and raad dont have terrain hugging. and i said you dont know what you are talking about...go read the threads.

No need to try and convince somebody that cant even take Official and independent sources which just happens to be amongst the most trusted information links in the open (Janes)...

Plus, its hilarious when the card " Many people from your side dont believe in official stories" is played after all, we do know about how "trusted" official stories are from the other side ...

Lets just see this for an example...

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/05/indian-politician-says-sonia-gandhi-has.html

So where is the official belief that MMRCA was totally transparent etc, which leads me to believe that

-Brahmos doesn't have 2.8 Mach of speed,
- LCA isn't even on 4th generation level (oops i messed up, thats what the IAF airchief said, but they dont believe him do they) and i can go on naming quite another few, however the fact is grapes are quite sour for some people that were just boosting about how they were going to hypersonica in 2017, only to find out their adversaries have already reached that mark .....

So now, the entire Indian fan brigade is saying "Speed is not that effective" while they were boosting from day 1 of Brahmos testing, that speed triumphs maneuverability and terrain hugging....only to make a U turn after Pakistan gets a weapon that tops their "deadly speed" ..

 

[mjnaushad]

Dude, don't try to be a smart ***. Go to your thread about attack on kamra and see how many people believe the official statement there. Maybe if you had a free media then.......

Also you forgot one thing, neither raad nor babur are anti ship missiles.

Do indians have doubt that brahmos is not a super sonic missile ....NO

Do indians have doubt that there might be corruption in army....YES



Did i say they are anti ship?? You said Babur and raad dont have terrain hugging. and i said you dont know what you are talking about...go read the threads.

 

[Jango]

Another example of this deformation.

...and the conspicuous skin wrinkles, which are often mis-identified as evidence of aging, but were actually present when factory fresh and are due to tension from wing flex and weight (called Wagner tension field).

Photos: Boeing B-52H Stratofortress Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

I asked about this from someone in the aviation industry, and he explained that it as due to multiple reasons.

One is the deformation due to simple use, the stresses involved and the pressures etc. Second is that as the aircraft flies in the atmosphere, it experiences friction form the various particles in the atmosphere and everything else, and so the aircraft is gradually being 'chipped away', slowly. The aircraft body and skin itself suffers some slight scratches here and there, and rivets, bolts and screws as well and are all replaced during a life of an aircraft, and although they do the job, they do not have the exact snug fit of the original factory fitted screws. So overtime, deformations occur. And then the third reason as I have mentioned in the above quoted section...wing flex and Wagner tension field (no idea what that is ).

 

[Tempest II]

Just 2 months ago: http://www.missilethreat.com/archives/id.7708/detail.asp

"HCSM also enables warfighters to leverage HARM's supersonic speed and standoff capability to rapidly and accurately engage time-critical targets".

Here is a document from end 2007 http://www.ndiagulfcoast.com/events/archive/33rd_symposium/day2/05_XR NDIA 10-11 Oct Final.pdf . On page 12, please note that hypersonic missiles are presented as an area to research and an opportunity. They are for operating in “Anti-access Environments”, I.e. they are difficult for the enemy to stop/defeat.

Here is another http://cuttingedge.org/news/n1449.cfm

“… … According to the Defense Advanced Research Project Agency, the U.S. military is developing a new hypersonic robot missile reported to be capable of traveling in excess of six times the speed of sound and armed with its own miniature smart bombs. … …
… …In July 1999, defense analyst Richard D. Fisher wrote an evaluation of the Russian-built Sunburn missile being sold to China. A senior fellow at the Jamestown Foundation, a Washington based think-tank, Fisher reported that the SS-N-22 may be capable of a dive speed of Mach 4.5 that would help it evade U.S. naval defenses. The Sunburn anti-ship missile is perhaps the most lethal anti-ship missile in the world," wrote Fisher in a review of the Chinese navy. The Sunburn combines a Mach 2.5 speed with a very low-level flight pattern that uses violent end maneuvers to throw off defenses. After detecting the Moskit, the U.S. Navy Phalanx point defense system may have only 2.5 seconds to calculate a fire solution -- not enough time before the devastating impact of a 750-lb. warhead. … … "

Please note that while the low-level is part of the attack strategy, high speed is here being discussed that even the USA was research it, and even using a small warhead in light of the high speed. It is the high speed that is specifically given here as "speed of Mach 4.5 that would help it evade U.S. naval defenses"

More here: http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1398/MR1398.ch4.pdf This article presents a very different angle and advantage of hypersonic missiles, not about the missiles itself being defeated, but that a hypersonic missile reaches the target before the target has moved far. it therefore has a better chance of finding/locking-on and hitting the target.

Thus, we believe that either loitering strike assets or high-speed standoff weapons should be pursued so that targets can be attacked quickly once the detection-recognitiondecision cycle has been completed. ... ... The Mach 4 missile’s MILVAW search a maximum of 69 percent of the on-the-move expanding search area. A Mach 2 missile would require 32 min to arrive and deploy its MILVAW, and today’s subsonic cruise missiles would require well over an hour. At these delayed arrival times, the MILVAW would search only a tiny fraction of the possible target locations, and the perishable targeting data would probably be
of very little value. Thus, to defeat mobile targets from long-standoff ranges will probably require at least Mach 6, and preferably Mach 8, delivery platforms.... .... survivable, enduring strike assets or high-speed standoff weapons will probably be necessary to strike targets quickly once they have been recognized as hostile.

Not difficult. ... ... In tech parlance, Obsolete. ... ... .

Yes Sir, they are difficult. … … No Sir, they are not obsolete.

 

[Tempest II]

A bit more: This study relates to tanks but if your target is moving, this also says the high speed is very desirable

This www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA426717 is from 2004 an asserts that even systems as advanced as AHEAD have very little chance of intercepting a Mach 5+ target

 

[SpArK]

Regarding the RD-93, which China mainly uses to power the JF-17 (FC-1) fighter, Kornev said that Russia has completed deliveries of 100 of the engine under a framework agreement for 500. Negotiations on the next batch are ongoing. “All juridical formalities regarding new sales are agreed upon; our negotiations are purely about commercial aspects, including price,” he insisted.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/chinese-defence/220635-russian-officials-reveal-j-31-engine-describe-sales-china.html

 

[Donatello]

Regarding the RD-93, which China mainly uses to power the JF-17 (FC-1) fighter, Kornev said that Russia has completed deliveries of 100 of the engine under a framework agreement for 500. Negotiations on the next batch are ongoing. “All juridical formalities regarding new sales are agreed upon; our negotiations are purely about commercial aspects, including price,” he insisted.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/chinese-defence/220635-russian-officials-reveal-j-31-engine-describe-sales-china.html

If the engine order was for 500 originally, then someone in PAF knew about the upcoming J-31, because if 100-150 went to PAF for JF-17, then someone could easily guess where the rest would go (Obviously not for J-11, J-15,16s or J-10s).

In any case, it is good news. Becausue J-31s can be inducted with similar engines.

 

[airbus101]

I think if china has asked the russians that we might buy 500 engines from you but not in full but in batches then that simply means that as long as the paf get the required results from the engine and some other countries buy the thunder only then they will buy more batches coz we need some spares as well as the foreign buying nation to store them as spares in case of any mishap...ALLAH forbid
Thats what I think

 

[fjavaid]

Regarding the RD-93, which China mainly uses to power the JF-17 (FC-1) fighter, Kornev said that Russia has completed deliveries of 100 of the engine under a framework agreement for 500. Negotiations on the next batch are ongoing. “All juridical formalities regarding new sales are agreed upon; our negotiations are purely about commercial aspects, including price,” he insisted.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/chinese-defence/220635-russian-officials-reveal-j-31-engine-describe-sales-china.html

This new is Already posted on page 581 !!!

 

[mymeaningislion]

Actually check my join date and number of posts. I have spent enough time here. Go yourself to wiki page of Raad. I went and searched for "terrain" and did not find any match. Sure there are terrain hugging claims for babur, but they always quote one official statement which mentions babur to be a low flying, terrain hugging missile. Other than that, no info on these missiles.



If you did not agree with me, you should have proved me wrong, instead of insulting me for no reason.

Bro...what do you want....is it necessary that Pakistan have to write all specific and secret details to you ...just to make sure that u believe in what we say...........if you dont want to believe then please stay out ......otherwise will be taken on by the pros here and then you start weening that they are insulting you........it is for your own goodwill....peace......

 

[SBD-3]

From Zhuhai with love

New cockpit for JFT?

 

[farhan_9909]

might be for the jft 3

 

[Thunder_Rider]

JFT Still remains a Mystery

 

[mylovepakistan]

november 23,2009 the first jf 17 assembled at PAC rolled out