I expected no better of you IceCold -- You are again and again resorting to personal results -- and your below post shows that you cant handle it when the same is dished back to you !
Whatever suits your little fantasy world, fact is i dont need to influence the out come of debate over a person who thinks out of his *** and not head. And this by the way stands true for the majority of your BR inspired kind who comes here for a single purpose.
No comments -- You dont have anything to add say so ! -- Dont say you dont need to influence the out come of debate --because thats what the forums/discussions are for !
Your first line is hardly surprising since you know what PAC is. Why dont i feel surprised here the know all attitude is pretty evident from your post but then again i dont expect anything different.
You can check all the posts of the previous posts of mine -- I try to make my point if i know the details but at the same i am willing to be corrected ...ofcourse you resort of all sorts of personal insults/generalization of my country men--which is typical of a loser !
Running is circles are we??? First i answered the avionics question by stating a fact based on a link and instead of refuting it you decided to run around and pick up the engine part, when i refuted that, you ran back and picked avionics again.
Putting words in my mouth here are we !!
This is my second post on the matter--
"Icecold i have been long enough on this forum to know that Kamra has begun production of avionics -- but what kind of avionics are we talking about ? avionics covers a wide range of spectrum -- right from Hud - to as complex as radar".
You never responded to that. You gave some points about overhauling some engines -- i responded to that, doesnt mean that i choose to ignore the avionics part. You on the other hand is so pathetically out of place that you dont even know what you are talking about , and as usual when you have nothing to say you mumble some ****.
Tell me something MR know all Indian how do you know that the avionics development started by kamra is hud lcd and not radar, did they share their info with you and also how do you know that no country will ever share details about a radar with us???
The Link i gave clearly stated that PAC has started developing indigenous (does the word sound familiar because Indians often like to use) avionics along side Chinese.
I do not know if Kamra has all the details for radar nor if it has access to complex avionics issues. If i knew then i would not have brought the part over there . But it is clear that even you dont, yet you keep on harping the point that Kamra builds its own complex avionics , has the ability to do any engine overhaul , yada yada , etc
However what i do know is -- how it works around the world ..and how manufacturing nations zealously guard their IP's -- Be it french, american , russian , etc...
Further PAF was trying to negotiate with French on avionics -- You really think frenchies will indulge you with Avionics know how -- at most they will do is to teach you guys on how to integrate/maintain the avionics ---
As regards to Indigenous -- clutching straws here are we ? I can see that You are now trying desperately to salvage your pride-- but lets see indigenious -- hmm lets see from a indian perspective -- LCA is a indigenous plane , but hey it has GE 404 engine, so if there are issues with GE 404 issues then we contact americans, we have EW issues then we have to Israelis --- but still the plane is indigenous-- Similarly just because Kamra is co producing JF 17 doesnt mean that it will have all the techincal know how ! Producing a air craft is different than building one on its own.
Further if you have details please furnish it for my knowledge.
I dont need to have clues about engine but since you know everything Tell me how do you know what wasnt included in the overhaul? Also let me get this straight according to you an over haul is replacing nuts and bolts, pistons seriously......how old are you? Do you even know what a jet engine is? I am surprised at your knowledge, we are talking about F-16s and its overhauling and you are mentioning pistons lol. Learn a bit about jet engines before arguing over something you have absolutely no clue about.
You dont know a jack and yet you are a senior member on this forum -- seriously how did you get there ? I gave the example so that senior member like you can comprehend what i am talking and not to take the words of an example and Yell ' Hey this guy doesnt know what he is talking about'...
Hmm let me try again --
What is a Engine overhaul in laymans terms ? -- courtesy wiki
"An engine overhaul means putting the engine back to factory specifications. This generally involves new piston rings, bearings and gaskets. When done by a competent engine builder the engine will perform as new."
What does this mean for Jet engine overhaul ?
Depends on whos doing it -- if its a manufacturer then it take on overhauling then it takes on a whole new meaning but if a aeronautical firm like 'Kamra' or 'HAL' ..takes it on then its different since they never have the entire details for over haul. So what does this mean for Jet engine overhaul -- This is normally undertaken before MTBF or definetly after MTBF -- very similar to defination restoring the engine back to the new factory standars -- which includes Taking out the engine from A/C , dismantling the engine, replacing the worn parts , replacing the components , checking for flaws, checking for cracks on componets , cleaning out the engine and refitting the engine on aircraft. All these are taught by the engine manufacture. All these are complex tasks and in no means Mean feat -- and takes about 6-8 months to do a overhaul -- it also increases MTBF since the parts that will be used will new (and probably made with better materials due to advancement in technology)....
Now -- If a engine were to suffer a air intake choke or suddenly shut down in mid flight due to some core engine problem then in all probability it will be the manufacture who will sort these out and not the firm.
A decent video on propeller aircraft overhaul -- Note these are propeller aircraft and relatively less complicated.
Aircraft Engine Overhaul Documentary (wait for bars and tone) Video by ? «TRAVI ? - MySpace Video
I am not concerned about Iran but can you back your claim up that PAF cannibalized its F-16s? To set the record straight all 45 are flying with one lost.
You are not concerned-- because you are caught hook line and sinker. I said clearly in my post the cannibalization of F16 during one of the discussion on Kaiser tufails blog where somebody had asked a question and kaiser replied to it -- unfortunately the comments got purged -- but as i repeatedly pointed out i dont have confirmation on it but let me search again.
However these are comments on Kaiser's blog which led Kaiser to answer the question --
"F-16 CAPs could not have been flown all day long as spares support was limited under the prevailing US sanctions"
"After one week of CAPs, the F-16 maintenance personnel indicated that war reserve spares were being eaten into and that the activity had to be ‘rationalised’, a euphemism for discontinuing it altogether"
But the point here is --- a nation like Iran can manage with more sever sanctions than Pak has ever had can manage to keep its tomcats in air then it shouldnt be a big deal for Pak do it -- So point to out that 'Hey we kept our F16's in air during sanctions is reflective of Kamra's capability is mere fallacy !'
You were hardly asking questions rather stating your so called facts and even when i have refuted them with links, you are still here running your mouth. What does that tell us about you?
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What links ? Ohh you mean those links which said Kamra has started avionics manufacturing , kamra overhauled F16 engines -- do you really want to counter with those links , is that even a refute...you are truly delusional...dont hide behind the fact that you are a senior member and can get away with whatever you are saying !!......Well it tells me that you first you dont know anything what you are saying and further if someone respectfully asks you or disagrees with you , you resort to personal rants and generalization. Dont spew **** when you dont know , just accept that you dont know. However if you do know then educate the other member about it without being sarcastic or bringing nationality into picture. Just be prepared to receive what you dish out, if you resort to unnecessart comments !
This is my last post since any further it would turn out to be a flame war, i dont intend to do that unless forced !
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