JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 2]

[Patriot]

I think it was really an engine design problem that the Russians overlooked to keep costs down. I am no engine expert, but I can't imagine any reason why a smoke-free combustion chamber would in any way hurt performance.

The Mig-35 program addressed 2 of the biggest complaints about the Mig-29 - lack of range and a smoke trail for enemy AA to follow directly to your plane. And I can't imagine if you're in a close-up fight with someone in your Mig-29A you would appreciate the long trail that leads directly to your 6.

I was watching Mig35 promo few days ago and the smoke is visible in mig35.

 

[Zarbe Momin]

AOA,
Someone given this link about Air Marshal Shahid Lafit, and the JF-17 program on Pakistanidefence:
I have this believe that institutions should be strong and not person, but if Air Marshal Shahid Lafit had done incredible job for a given task we must respect the persons like this. Most importantly by producing nearly 50% of JF-17 in PAC Kamra, we were going towards selfreliance. What are the factors behind that deal, that we are buying direclty from CATIC, China and on high interest rate. Why?
Another member qouted in same discussion:
"I am little doubful about this article. Javeed Chudhary has written same kind of article against former HEC chairman Dr. Atta ur Rehman when he was desperately trying to engage with developed countries to open engineering universities in Pakistan with collaboration of these countries. Javed went even so far calling all research papers of Rd Ata ur Rehman as work of his students and calling Dr. as thief who stole research of his students".
For first part i will let the members to answer but for second part i will answer myself. I am student in Germany and doing my Master in Chemistry. Last year i met a Pakistani student who came from HEJ Research institue of Chemistry, Karachi. He joined us in Master studies. He was very tallanted. He completed his M.Phil in HEJ Research institue and then left his Phd. The reason was same teachers stole the research work of students and publish them with their own names and also delay the Phd of students to get more research material. After five months he left us and joined a Professor in Rostock university and now he is about to finish his Phd and till now he has successfully published many research papers in very famous journals.
Now there is an alarming question. why in our country so slefish and corrupt upper class rules the country i.e. Politics, defense industry, Education? Why we are doing so with Pakistan?

 

[mean_bird]

AOA,
Someone given this link about Air Marshal Shahid Lafit, and the JF-17 program on Pakistanidefence:
I have this believe that institutions should be strong and not person, but if Air Marshal Shahid Lafit had done incredible job for a given task we must respect the persons like this. Most importantly by producing nearly 50% of JF-17 in PAC Kamra, we were going towards selfreliance. What are the factors behind that deal, that we are buying direclty from CATIC, China and on high interest rate. Why?

We aren't directly buying from CATIC... it has been said multiple time by the CAS and JF-17 project director that we will start production and gradually increase the localized components. According to plan, by 2010-11, we'll produce 50% airframe and 75-80% avionics but the process would be gradual and these figures are not from day 1.

Let's see if they deviate from this plan.

Regarding HEC, its of-topic here but I can tell you Dr. Atta is a very respected researcher world-wide that have earned numerous awards and appreciation.
I won't go any further on this as it will derail this thread.

 

[Zarbe Momin]

Lot of thanks for answering.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Stealth Armament Bay?
What do you guys think of a similar concept to F-15SE?

Well its not possible on current JF-17 model due to Wheel structure. So in order to have a such a armament bay a new design must be in cooperated in the new model such as the Twin rudder concept.
I am not emphasizing on the stealth feature but rather a more secured delivery system which denies the enemy to have awareness of your armament.
IAF airborne radars will detect a fully loaded fighter jet as soon as it takes off which even has the capability to check out what armament it is carrying and they will find out what we are planing to do or what target we are going to hit.
No point of hiding your A2A weapons as it is going to be very obvious to the enemies that our Thunders will be carrying BVR and WVR AAM all time but Air to ground weapons is what should be kept as much classified as possible.
So for example.. the enemy is going to know whether we are going to do SEAD mission with MAR-1 or deep strike with RA'AD or provide Ground support to our troops with Cluster bombs and other smart bombs.

 

[zombie:-)]

Stealth Armament Bay?
What do you guys think of a similar concept to F-15SE?
sLyhhoQmCsQ[/media] - F-15SE Silent Eagle

Well its not possible on current JF-17 model due to Wheel structure. So in order to have a such a armament bay a new design must be in cooperated in the new model such as the Twin rudder concept.
I am not emphasizing on the stealth feature but rather a more secured delivery system which denies the enemy to have awareness of your armament.
IAF airborne radars will detect a fully loaded fighter jet as soon as it takes off which even has the capability to check out what armament it is carrying and they will find out what we are planing to do or what target we are going to hit.
No point of hiding your A2A weapons as it is going to be very obvious to the enemies that our Thunders will be carrying BVR and WVR AAM all time but Air to ground weapons is what should be kept as much classified as possible.
So for example.. the enemy is going to know whether we are going to do SEAD mission with MAR-1 or deep strike with RA'AD or provide Ground support to our troops with Cluster bombs and other smart bombs.

i think the part in BOLD is pure fantasy ....may be MAY BE they might know if a plane is carrying big or large payloads MAY BE but i dont think its possible

how can an awacs confirm what a plane is carrying when the target data on the screen of an awacs controller will be represented as mere dots on a graphical scale he might notice a slightly larger RCS of the enemy aircraft but it might also be carrying drop tanks

 

[zombie:-)]

Stealth Armament Bay?
What do you guys think of a similar concept to F-15SE?
sLyhhoQmCsQ[/media] - F-15SE Silent Eagle

Well its not possible on current JF-17 model due to Wheel structure. So in order to have a such a armament bay a new design must be in cooperated in the new model such as the Twin rudder concept.
I am not emphasizing on the stealth feature but rather a more secured delivery system which denies the enemy to have awareness of your armament.
IAF airborne radars will detect a fully loaded fighter jet as soon as it takes off which even has the capability to check out what armament it is carrying and they will find out what we are planing to do or what target we are going to hit.
No point of hiding your A2A weapons as it is going to be very obvious to the enemies that our Thunders will be carrying BVR and WVR AAM all time but Air to ground weapons is what should be kept as much classified as possible.
So for example.. the enemy is going to know whether we are going to do SEAD mission with MAR-1 or deep strike with RA'AD or provide Ground support to our troops with Cluster bombs and other smart bombs.

sorry but i forgot

how can you put huge A2G weapons inside the plane its almost impossible ...
dont worry AWACS are not that advanced yet

 

[MZUBAIR]

Pakistan is not getting 36 J-10/FC-20 this year.

The order is altered.

Now Pakistan is getting almost 50 J-10/FC-20 "high-tech" variant, to be delivered to the PAF in 2014-15, some speculate that this could be a version of the upgraded J-10B model.

On March 7th 2009, at agreement signing ceremony of JF-17 Thunder aircraft, Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood Ahmed said the agreement between Pakistan and China for the delivery of High-Tech aircraft J-10 was intact and these aircraft after improving them further would be delivered to PAF in 2014-15. He said these aircraft are being modernized in accordance with the PAF’s requirements and delivered under the title of FC-20.

Currently PAF is focusing to develop Full-fledged production of JF-17 in Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, Kamra.

Planned Upgrade of JF-17 till 2015.

The first 50 JF-17s entering Pakistan Air Force service will most likely incorporate only Chinese avionics and other systems.
Extendable in-flight refueling probes will be added soon.
Minor airframe modifications to add two more external hardpoints have also been mentioned by some sources.

Greater use of composite materials in the airframe to decrease weight.
Chinese Infra-Red Search and Track (IRST) system, possibly the Type Hongguang-I Electro-optical radar originally developed for the Chengdu J-10 fighter by Sichuan Changhong Electric Appliance Corporation. JF-17 is already compatible with this system but currently it must be carried externally in a pod mounted on one of the hardpoints.
New engine; most likely the Chinese WS-13 TianShan, although the PAF is considering fitting European powerplants such as the French Snecma M88 to its aircraft.

Minor airframe modifications to reduce the aircraft's radar cross-section by adding stealthy features.

Beyond the initial 50 PAF JF-17s, the remaining production aircraft may also be equipped with European avionics, radars and weaponry. Pakistan had begun negotiations with British and Italian defence firms over potential avionics and radars for JF-17 during initial development. Some of the radar options for JF-17 are the Italian Galileo Avionica Grifo S7and the French Thomson-CSF RC400 (a variant of the RDY-2), along with the MBDA MICA IR/RF short/medium range air-to-air missiles.


This would make the fighter more attractive.

 

[LCA]

what is the status of JF-17 induction?

1 sqd. suppose to be inducted by end of this month............

 

[MZUBAIR]

what is the status of JF-17 induction?

1 sqd. suppose to be inducted by end of this month............

Pakistan is putting more on upgradations & improvements, so I dont think that 1 Sqd wil be inducted soon.

But it will not take too long, probabily only 1 Sqd would have JF-17 by the end of this year.
(This is in my opinion)

 

[Myth_buster_1]

i think the part in BOLD is pure fantasy ....may be MAY BE they might know if a plane is carrying big or large payloads MAY BE but i dont think its possible

how can an awacs confirm what a plane is carrying when the target data on the screen of an awacs controller will be represented as mere dots on a graphical scale he might notice a slightly larger RCS of the enemy aircraft but it might also be carrying drop tanks

trust me... todays Air borne warning systems can detect every thing what the AC is carrying be it Erieye, Palcon, wedgetail, KJ-2000 etc.. do you even know that fighter jets are also identified by the characteristics of its engine... thats where DSI comes in and pretty much hides it...

 

[Myth_buster_1]

sorry but i forgot

how can you put huge A2G weapons inside the plane its almost impossible ...
dont worry AWACS are not that advanced yet

duh..... thats pretty obvious..
what i am trying to imply here is... extend the belly airframe to in cooperate one internal hard point for each side which should be enough in size to house any A2G armament in PAF inventory and share the aerodynamics of CFT.

 

[anoopsaxena76]

trust me... todays Air borne warning systems can detect every thing what the AC is carrying be it Erieye, Palcon, wedgetail, KJ-2000 etc..

Hi,
Sorry I was, still am, ignorant about it. Can you let me know the source for this information please?

Thanks,
Anoop.

 

[anoopsaxena76]

He doesn't need to give you the source because he knows it, If you still insist do some research on the web on your own you will get your answers. Thankyou

Sir,
You are highly respected here on this forum, and I include myself in those who respect you.

However I do disagree with you on two points.

1.) This is a forum. He may know it and it may be the truth. If the information is out in the public domain, and not classified, he should respond to a request with the source.

2.) I do not like to confront. I did not know about it, and hence I requested, after searching on the net. Now it could be that I did a bad search. But I did.

My point is, very humbly, are we going to tell people to look it up if they request for such information. Was I being rude in my request?

Thanks,
Anoop.

 

[Muradk]

Sir,
You are highly respected here on this forum, and I include myself in those who respect you.

However I do disagree with you on two points.

1.) This is a forum. He may know it and it may be the truth. If the information is out in the public domain, and not classified, he should respond to a request with the source.

2.) I do not like to confront. I did not know about it, and hence I requested, after searching on the net. Now it could be that I did a bad search. But I did.

My point is, very humbly, are we going to tell people to look it up if they request for such information. Was I being rude in my request?

Thanks,
Anoop.

Sorry yar I was in a different state of mind to early in the morning perhaps normally AWACS are defense-less against a fightgers so it will turn on its ECM after the short has been taken at him it will take a 1/10 of a sec for it to know whats coming towards it and how to counter it.