JF-17: Low Level Strike (Concept)

[PakFactor]

Its a good idea but you're famous in the PAF. Everybody already knows all your ideas in that high nosed institution. And the PN also seems to know (my best guess as for some odd reason, things that get discussed on this forum seems to get rectified by the PN on the quick). Which is actually pretty nice.

Just the other day we saw a big shot of the PA on PDF treating you like a legend (which you are). If the juice is worth the squeeze I'll write the article, although it will take considerable time and effort which I would rather spend making $$$.

I've banged my head long enough in PTI think tanks and although some of my ideas did go through, the impact was about at best 1%. Imran Khan's thinking process is like us but his party doesn't want to interfere in military matters. I actually had a request, while in a think tank to research a policy paper on conscription, a paper looking at the best practices of a certain classified country that was specifically requested. (which is one of my pet peeves). Supposedly (and I can't know 100% if that is true, the request came from the PM himself).

The long and short of my experience with PTI think tanks is that nothing really happens. Just a lot of hullabaloo and drawing room conversations. The only silver bullet I found was to use my position in such think tanks and directly Fedex documents to the table of IK, but that worked back in 2012/13 which may not work now that he is PM.

If you can find a way to get this idea to the desk of the naval chief, then this may just be an effective exercise. I really don't have any influence or contacts left in Pakistan anymore. My experience of this kind of lobbying tells me that unless we reach the top, nothing will move.

If you want to share documents I can get them to the PN, I have contacts through my business who are very close to the PM and others as well, a certain doctor I know is extremely close and have contacts each other on a daily basis.

My business when I started was due to these guys in the first place also.

 

[Armchair]

Hi

That was the threat in 2002---that money will start flying out of india never to come back---economic doom.



Hi,

Most pakistani kids are illiterate---. They have no clue what happens when you are afraid of something---.

Fear makes you nervous

Fear makes judgemental errors

Fear makes wrong decisions

Fear creates panic in ranks

Fear makes a person not complete his job

Fear makes you make wrong decisions

Fear creates panic

Panic spreads like wild fire and consumes others that are around you

Panic results in chaos.

Strikes on mumbai will create panic chaos fear at the same time---.

The Indians worship money, not their fake idols. We hit their pockets, its going to hurt them more than anything else. Remember, in the book The Bear Trap, the CIA officer tells the ISI that the Indians would sell their mothers for the right price.

Fear is key and far more effective on people without any real ideology and value systems. It is a primary instrument of war. But we are speaking to a brick wall here - Pak armed forces are indoctrinated with a certain mindset. A mindset that cannot be reasoned easily except from within, in the most extreme of circumstances.

Hi,

We will both write a joint detailed article on the subject matter and put out our effort together---if that is okay with you---.

See---my hunch was right about you---. There is more to you that what is visible---hehehe. You go ahead make the money---.

Alright, it will be a pleasure to write an article with you Mastan Khan. I grew up reading your posts : )

 

[MIRauf]

Hi

That was the threat in 2002---that money will start flying out of india never to come back---economic doom.



Hi,

Most pakistani kids are illiterate---. They have no clue what happens when you are afraid of something---.

Fear makes you nervous

Fear makes judgemental errors

Fear makes wrong decisions

Fear creates panic in ranks

Fear makes a person not complete his job

Fear makes you make wrong decisions

Fear creates panic

Panic spreads like wild fire and consumes others that are around you

Panic results in chaos.

Strikes on mumbai will create panic chaos fear at the same time---.

Hi MK, I am sure many poster here recognize what PAF did last year on Feb 27th, and its fear impact on IAF, complete chaos on their side. I agree that PAF needs a heavy Strike Platform to occupy IN and part of IAF to protect its ports and coastal cities, but I am not sure if JH-7A is the platform for PAF. If PLAAf/PLAAN gifts them to PAF / PN then its another story, but for that to happen the SAC needs to increase J-16 production to replace them. However that replacement part depends up on PLAAF / PLAN, just as the JF-17 Production is dictated by PAF.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi MK, I am sure many poster here recognize what PAF did last year on Feb 27th, and its fear impact on IAF, complete chaos on their side. I agree that PAF needs a heavy Strike Platform to occupy IN and part of IAF to protect its ports and coastal cities, but I am not sure if JH-7A is the platform for PAF. If PLAAf/PLAAN gifts them to PAF / PN then its another story, but for that to happen the SAC needs to increase J-16 production to replace them. However that replacement part depends up on PLAAF / PLAN, just as the JF-17 Production is dictated by PAF.

Hi,

Well---JH7A is an aircraft which is the least expensive to be had if pakistan approaches the chinese correctly.

 

[MastanKhan]

You're talking about 80s tech.

Hi,

Our F16's that started with late 60's technology---the mirage 3/5 are 50's technology---the modern upgraded B52 is 50's technology---the F15 also late 60's technology---.

The C130 Gunship---60's technology and not a single current day aircraft to compete with it---.

The HUMAN BEING---how old is a human being---still carries the most deadliest of the disease---.

It is not about how old the equipment is---it is about " does it fall into the utility of the realm it is going to be used in ".

There are some aircraft designs that are like eternal B 52-F16-F15-Mirage 3/5's---and some that did not last too long F-104---and some that lived their lives and then went away Phantom F4-A7-Mig21-Saab Viggen-F86.

It is the ability and the capacity of SOME of the older generation aircraft to be married to modern electronic gizmos and modern weapons that has given life to older aircraft beyond their original expiry date---.

It was something in their Genetic makeup that they could be upgraded and modified to take on newer modern day equipment and still function and do the needed job---.

Age is just a number---BUT all GENES are not created the same---.

 

[PakFactor]

Hi,

Our F16's that started with late 60's technology---the mirage 3/5 are 50's technology---the modern upgraded B52 is 50's technology---the F15 also late 60's technology---.

The C130 Gunship---60's technology and not a single current day aircraft to compete with it---.

The HUMAN BEING---how old is a human being---still carries the most deadliest of the disease---.

It is not about how old the equipment is---it is about " does it fall into the utility of the realm it is going to be used in ".

There are some aircraft designs that are like eternal B 52-F16-F15-Mirage 3/5's---and some that did not last too long F-104---and some that lived their lives and then went away Phantom F4-A7-Mig21-Saab Viggen-F86.

It is the ability and the capacity of SOME of the older generation aircraft to be married to modern electronic gizmos and modern weapons that has given life to older aircraft beyond their original expiry date---.

It was something in their Genetic makeup that they could be upgraded and modified to take on newer modern day equipment and still function and do the needed job---.

Age is just a number---BUT all GENES are not created the same---.

JH7 is an excellent platform to carry out land and sea heavy strike operations. Don’t see why the PAF didn’t pursue this — equipped with SOWs it’s a beast in its own right. This would have relieved our other ACs of deep strike roles.

 

[alphapak]

Pak Navy could do with atleast 2 squadrons of JH7A or J16's.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

We have talked a lot about the AShM CM400AKG for the JF17---if it would carry one missile or would it carry two missiles---. And then there was the interview of the PAF AVM stating one missile on center line---.

Looking thru the web---I see that there are different versions of the the Parent YJ12 missile---.

At the upper end is the 2500 kg missile---.

Then one source mentions an export variant of some 900 KG ( around 2000 lbs ) in the form of CM400AKG

and then another source mentions a 400 KG ( around 900 lbs ) CM400AKG.

Is there info out there of he weight class of the CM400 AKG in pak inventory other than what the AVM disclosed in his interview years ago---?

 

[Mentee]

Guys while you are at it do ask the PM to activate musherfi local bodies in letter and spirit . This is where the required money gonna come from - - - - - -.

 

[LKJ86]

Hi,

We have talked a lot about the AShM CM400AKG for the JF17---if it would carry one missile or would it carry two missiles---. And then there was the interview of the PAF AVM stating one missile on center line---.

Looking thru the web---I see that there are different versions of the the Parent YJ12 missile---.

At the upper end is the 2500 kg missile---.

Then one source mentions an export variant of some 900 KG ( around 2000 lbs ) in the form of CM400AKG

and then another source mentions a 400 KG ( around 900 lbs ) CM400AKG.

Is there info out there of he weight class of the CM400 AKG in pak inventory other than what the AVM disclosed in his interview years ago---?

There is no relationship between CM-400AKG and YJ-12.
The export version of YJ-12 is CM-302, and maybe Type 054A/P has it.

 

[Deino]

Hi,

We have talked a lot about the AShM CM400AKG for the JF17---if it would carry one missile or would it carry two missiles---. And then there was the interview of the PAF AVM stating one missile on center line---.

Looking thru the web---I see that there are different versions of the the Parent YJ12 missile---.

At the upper end is the 2500 kg missile---.

Then one source mentions an export variant of some 900 KG ( around 2000 lbs ) in the form of CM400AKG

and then another source mentions a 400 KG ( around 900 lbs ) CM400AKG.

Is there info out there of he weight class of the CM400 AKG in pak inventory other than what the AVM disclosed in his interview years ago---?

And thatÄs simply since most of these online sources are wrong (Just to mention Wiki and Deagel)

 

[Armchair]

And thatÄs simply since most of these online sources are wrong (Just to mention Wiki and Deagel)

I'd hazard a guess the CM-400AKG is a 1000 KG class weapon. Just a guess, not the cold hard facts Deino loves.

 

[Deino]

I'd hazard a guess the CM-400AKG is a 1000 KG class weapon. Just a guess, not the cold hard facts Deino loves.

I think this is more or less irrelevant since my only point is that the YJ-12 and the CM-400AKG are not versions of one or the other.

So even if the CM-400AKG is a 1000kg weapon the YJ-12 is still in a very different league.

 

[Readerdefence]

I think this is more or less irrelevant since my only point is that the YJ-12 and the CM-400AKG are not versions of one or the other.

So even if the CM-400AKG is a 1000kg weapon the YJ-12 is still in a very different league.

Hi Deino is it possible from the look of AK missile & offcourse with your experience of writing in defence journals what will or can be the weight of CM AKG if possible to speculate
Thank you

 

[MastanKhan]

@Deino
↑
" Opinion is fine but if one constantly posts fake information, ignores each and every argument and given fact as long as the message does not fit his opinion, as long he constantly attacks others in a most disrespectful way there is no space for this OPINION.

Rules are for everyone, and this includes also an old and formerly respected member.

By the way, he still refuses to reply and argue (https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/jf-17-block-3-updates-news-discussion.594030/page-404#post-12342684 and https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/jf-17-block-3-updates-news-discussion.594030/page-405#post-12344044) but since he's blocked from the true thread, he can maybe answer here if he can in order to restore his reputation?
Click to expand...


Hi,

You guys are blocking me and closing my threads---so here is the reply to your question---.

First of all---that was not my post---so you need to ask the question to that poster---. I agree to what he has written---but if you have any questions---you can direct it to that poster for explanations---.

My agreeing to that poster does not mean that I have to justify everything he wrote---.

I did provide news articles about the chinese stealing the F35 and the J31 copy---.

I am a personal witness to the US congress hearings on Cspan about this issue---I am also a witness to hearings on C-span by the congress about the Israeli Lavi design given to the chinese and the help israeli engineers provided to the chinese---and how the israelis got smacked by the US congress and how israelis turned tail and apologized to Papa for their sorry mistake---.

Now those hearings may have happened before you were born if your are under 30 years of age---.

I have shown you the picture proof of two aircraft Northrop where the first one was a twin engine and later re-designed to be a single engine to compete against the F16---but with more modern options.

If a Bicycle can be made into a tri cycle---why can't a tri cycle be made into a Bicycle---.

If you could not grasp this simple concept of engineering that equipment can be modified to the need and then there is a 20 years old "engineer" coming in support of you---is explaining to you worth my time---when supposedly you are a school teacher by profession---.

I mean to say---you need to get more educated on the engineering side of the issue---.

Your lack of comprehension about the engineering issue really shows how ill informed you are about the subject and you can let the 20 years old engineer know that as well---.

Northrop already has a product out to prove that---.

J-31 design is not a word of GOD that it cannot be changed or modified to meet the need---.