JF-17: Low Level Strike (Concept)

[Deino]

As usually ... avoiding a direct reply to a simple question and instead diverting again to another play-ground.

You know yourself that the original poster has no knowledge at all but You agreed with him "on all points". Therefore - especially since You are SOOOOO MUUUUCH knowledgeable in engineering issues (which I never claimed to have) - it is a logic question to ask you why there are so many errors and wrong information like an Italian engine and more that all find your "full agreement"??

As such, I've given up to discuss this FC-31 = F-35 clone-story and if You think it is, I can agree with you, You are correct ... but you are here in a forum, you have to obey to the same rules like any others and if you agree to stupid and false posts you must accept that others come and request an explanation. That's called a discussion after.

So if you avoid an answer, then it's fine, but then you must also accept that slowly no-one besides your fans take you seriously and calling Webmaster for help and then getting banned by himself should also give you a reason to reconsider.


by the way ...

You guys are blocking me and closing my threads---so here is the reply to your question---.

Yes, I think that's the regular result of trolling even for you by the Webmaster! ... and I did not know that these are YOUR threads? At least this would explain your overall rude behavior.

Best

 

[Armchair]

As usually ... avoiding a direct reply to a simple question and instead diverting again to another play-ground.

You know yourself that the original poster has no knowledge at all but You agreed with him "on all points". Therefore - especially since You are SOOOOO MUUUUCH knowledgeable in engineering issues (which I never claimed to have) - it is a logic question to ask you why there are so many errors and wrong information like an Italian engine and more that all find your "full agreement"??

As such, I've given up to discuss this FC-31 = F-35 clone-story and if You think it is, I can agree with you, You are correct ... but you are here in a forum, you have to obey to the same rules like any others and if you agree to stupid and false posts you must accept that others come and request an explanation. That's called a discussion after.

So if you avoid an answer, then it's fine, but then you must also accept that slowly no-one besides your fans take you seriously and calling Webmaster for help and then getting banned by himself should also give you a reason to reconsider.


by the way ...



Yes, I think that's the regular result of trolling even for you by the Webmaster! ... and I did not know that these are YOUR threads? At least this would explain your overall rude behavior.

Best

I think it is quite obvious that the J31 has design pedigree from the F35. Just like the Lavi and J10

The Carver program also shifted a design from single to twin engines

 

[MastanKhan]

I think it is quite obvious that the J31 has design pedigree from the F35. Just like the Lavi and J10

The Carver program also shifted a design from single to twin engines

Hi,

Off course they do---that is why the US congress had a live hearing on those issues---.

 

[LKJ86]

that is why the US congress had a live hearing on those issues---.

Can you provide the source?

 

[Deino]

Hi,

Off course they do---that is why the US congress had a live hearing on those issues---.

But that still does not answer or clarify any of these other errors? An Italian engine that does not exist, weapons that are not available and simply wrong claims? No reply?

Can you provide the source?

Even if..., even if he for the 10th time says so and even if we agree (what I never denied) that "the J31 has design pedigree from the F35. Just like the Lavi and J10" I only said it is not a copy or clone, and even if we agree it could be done with a lot of work, huge budget and time, the question remains if it is then a reasonable decision.

To transform the F-5 to the F-20 was viable since the new engine had roughly the size of the two former ones and since it was a fighter about two generations before the FC-31. As such that won't be possible that easy like a plug&play for the FC-31 since it would requite a full redesign and that for a stealth fighter.

By the way, that argument "The Carver program also shifted a design from single to twin engines" is lame, since it was never built.

 

[LKJ86]

Even if..., even if he for the 10th time says so and even if we agree (what I never denied) that "the J31 has design pedigree from the F35. Just like the Lavi and J10" I only said it is not a copy or clone, and even if we agree it could be done with a lot of work, huge budget and time, the question remains if it is then a reasonable decision.

To transform the F-5 to the F-20 was viable since the new engine had roughly the size of the two former ones and since it was a fighter about two generations before the FC-31. As such that won't be possible that easy like a plug&play for the FC-31 since it would requite a full redesign and that for a stealth fighter.

By the way, that argument "The Carver program also shifted a design from single to twin engines" is lame, since it was never built.

If China can "steal" the whole aviation industry system of USA, then the "copies" of F-22, F-35 and so on can be possible.

Can you imagine a F-22 equipped with two WS-10 engines, or a F-35 equipped with a WS-10 engine? PLAAF and PLAN would choose to buy Su-57.

 

[MastanKhan]

But that still does not answer or clarify any of these other errors? An Italian engine that does not exist, weapons that are not available and simply wrong claims? No reply?
.

Hi,

That was not my post---. You need to address your grievance elsewhere---.

 

[Deino]

Hi,

That was not my post---. You need to address your grievance elsewhere---.

But You agreed in all aspects! And since the one who posted it has no clue anyway I ask you, which should not be forbidden.

 

[MastanKhan]

Can you provide the source?

Check out C-Span and look thru the history of its broadcast over the years---

 

[Armchair]

Carver prototype was built. ask @denel.

About engine, that post said Italian / Chinese. So if there was some tech addition from Italian origin. can Deino disprove such a claim? humans make errors writing posts, doesnt mean it is 100% wrong or a lie except in Deino land

 

[LKJ86]

Check out C-Span and look thru the history of its broadcast over the years---

Please provide the sources for your claim, otherwise the discussion is meaningless.

 

[MastanKhan]

Please provide the sources for your claim, otherwise the discussion is meaningless.

Hi,

You may discuss what ever you want to with whomever you want to---. I don't do discussions---I just made my comment to what I saw and heard---.

 

[Deino]

Carver prototype was built. ask @denel.

About engine, that post said Italian / Chinese. So if there was some tech addition from Italian origin. can Deino disprove such a claim? humans make errors writing posts, doesnt mean it is 100% wrong or a lie except in Deino land

Not wanting to go off-topic, but from all i know at several forums it was not! But again I'm eager to be corrected. @denel could you please provide help?

And again why so offensive? Fact is, there is no Italian engine available for the JF-17 since Italy has no own engine project in that class. That's a fact and as such it is an error in that report. That alone is no problem since we all make mistakes and errors and I admitted that, me too. But since @MastanKhan agreed on all point of that questionable report and therefore a request is most legit.

Why he still does explain why he agreed on this and other obvious issues even to several requests from other members to provide proof, I don't know. IMO simply since he cannot and since it would show that most of his claims or agreements to such obviously wrong posts are not based on facts but opinion, which in the end would diminish his credibility.

But anyway, no-one can prevents others from making others look like fools.

 

[LKJ86]

Hi,

You may discuss what ever you want to with whomever you want to---. I don't do discussions---I just made my comment to what I saw and heard---.

Enjoy your rumours...

 

[araz]

Carver prototype was built. ask @denel.

About engine, that post said Italian / Chinese. So if there was some tech addition from Italian origin. can Deino disprove such a claim? humans make errors writing posts, doesnt mean it is 100% wrong or a lie except in Deino land

To give perspective to the "Italian engine", the talk has been that PAC looked into the EJ 200 series for the JFT. There may have been a few reasons for that. There was interest from the Saudis and it may have been offered to them with EJ 200 series on the premise that the Europeans will do the integration and Saudis will pay the integration cost. Commonality of engines will make it a more viable option for the Saudis. I don't think the talk went anywhere but the rumor has lingered. The EJ series at the moment makes no sense to the PAF as the current supplier has established MRO facilities and currently there is no impediment to supplies. PAF remains satisfied with the engine and does not want to go into a venture which is technically sanctionable which was one of the main reasons for going for the JFT inthe first place. The turks are currently collaborating with the consortium while they start producing engines. Now if that happens PAC/PAF might again look at the prospects of getting a EU based engine but this is too far in the future to consider now.
A

Carver prototype was built. ask @denel.

About engine, that post said Italian / Chinese. So if there was some tech addition from Italian origin. can Deino disprove such a claim? humans make errors writing posts, doesnt mean it is 100% wrong or a lie except in Deino land

"During 1988, Atlas commenced the construction of a single Carver prototype; according to reports, this aircraft was never fully completed and no test flights were known to have taken place.[1] During mid-1989, aerospace publication Flight International reported that the in-development fighter aircraft was intended to be inducted into SAAF service within the latter half of the 1990s, and would be used to replace various types then in use, such as the French-built Mirage III fighters, British-built Blackburn Buccaneer and English Electric Canberra bombers"
I understand Wikipedia is not a good source but it states no prototypes were built or test runs done.
A