JF-17 French Avionics Deal On Hold/Cancelled

[qsaark]

It wont affect anything that much but will increase the time scale a lot. If Pakistan start negotiations now with the Italians or with China, it will delay the actual implementation of the deal by atleast 1 year and thats not counting all the variable involved.

Pakistan is not starting the negotiations TODAY, they are already underway.

How eager the Italians are to give away their avionics to Pakistan keeping in mind Pakistan's closeness with China is questionable.

Our F-7s are already equipped with Italian avionics.

 

[Dazzler]

Ambidex,

Friend, check the JF-17 thread from page 55 onwards and you will know that the above is not flip flop but the opposite.

Thanks

 

[graphican]

Even if India did manage to get it halted, i ask them, at one point the Indian members claim this and that of the SU 30MKI air superiority on the other hand they don't have the balls to face the reality of the French equipped JF-17???

Right.......please grow up India.

Since when did you start thinking Pakistan's enemy was some dignified enemy? Gone are the days when some one used to give his/her opponent a fair chance. Here Chankia's pholosphy is being followed who used to preach,

"if you want to kill somebody, become friend with him and when you can, back-stab him, then sit on his dead body and weep that somebody killed your best friend"..

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Sir! The primary objective is to modernize Jf-17 even further. We have just inoculated this platform in PAF. Let it mature according to our current needs. Equip it with the most advanced yet inexpensive weapons. Once this stage is set and complete, we'll move onto other planes. Pakistan has already evaluated Rafael and rejected it. French know that Pakistan won't be buying Rafael anytime soon. Their best bet is MMRCA to get the money rolling in. So no worries...we don't know what PAF is going to do but I know one thing for sure....they are professionals and they must have a backup plan.

Edit: I am myself a software engineer and trust me we are NOT CAPABLE of producing avionics at the moment. This is not just a simple software program...It is a complete e-warfare system that our university graduates don't even know about. Our education does not offer such wide range of studies. It only emphasis basics of computer science and most of the graduates end up developing websites *sigh* For now, we have to rely on western avionics.

Every problem look big , but if its broken down and responsibility is shared the goal becomes manigable

All the hardware can be exported from China

Touch Screens, Radar units hardware (emitters and recivers), wiring cabling

Even Next Generation Laser pods , I mean our friend makes lasers and we are not taking steps to use these in our fighters for guided missiles

We just need to develop the underlaying code which we can do locally its not forbidden technology the only difference is Pakistani
engineers are doing silly things like html , javascript - engineers in France / UK/ US get to work with real coding challenges

Its just difference in prespective - the moment we will invest 1 billion USD into R&D the moment we will be free of headaches of having to talk to other countries for radars....

Radars are not something grand it was used since what 20's or 30's

The only thing that has changed is how that data captured form radar is displayed visually to the pilot or (command center)

Thats all there is to it ... its just taking raw input and making it visually pleasing (done via software development/engineering)

The data has to get tracked , if you spot some flying bird etc that all information is part of the radar signal - just need a engineer to extract the data contained in the returned signal

Its simple you bounce a wave out it hits and comes back you pick the signal and you display it on the screen a meaningful data.....

Some countries that took time to promote local companies these companies then became the large avionic companies we know of now.


Difference: They spent small amount 1-2 billion every year or so to invest in avionics

We keep sending 4-5 billion to the other countries every now and then and feel good that we saved cash


I think its a great oppourtunity to invest 1 billion USD into Pakistan Avionics industry and be free of this Avionic exporting out from Pakistan

 

[desiman]

Pakistan is not starting the negotiations TODAY, they are already underway.

Our F-7s are already equipped with Italian avionics.[/QUOTE]

To what extent ?

 

[Indestructible]

Every problem look big , but if its broken down and responsibility is shared the goal becomes manigable

All the hardware can be exported from China

Touch Screens, Radar units hardware (emitters and recivers), wiring cabling

Even Next Generation Laser pods , I mean our friend makes lasers and we are not taking steps to use these in our fighters for guided missiles

We just need to develop the underlaying code which we can do locally its not forbidden technology the only difference is Pakistani
engineers are doing silly things like html , javascript - engineers in France / UK/ US get to work with real coding challenges

Its just difference in prespective - the moment we will invest 1 billion USD into R&D the moment we will be free of headaches of having to talk to other countries for radars....

Radars are not something grand it was used since what 20's or 30's

The only thing that has changed is how that data captured form radar is displayed visually to the pilot or (command center)

Thats all there is to it ... its just taking raw input and making it visually pleasing (done via software development/engineering)

The data has to get tracked , if you spot some flying bird etc that all information is part of the radar signal - just need a engineer to extract the data contained in the returned signal

Its simple you bounce a wave out it hits and comes back you pick the signal and you display it on the screen a meaningful data.....

Some countries that took time to promote local companies these companies then became the large avionic companies we know of now.


Difference: They spent small amount 1-2 billion every year or so to invest in avionics

We keep sending 4-5 billion to the other countries every now and then and feel good that we saved cash


I think its a great oppourtunity to invest 1 billion USD into Pakistan Avionics industry and be free of this Avionic exporting out from Pakistan

Dude....You are putting in too simply This is not so easy. Its not like a browser in which you type a url and url will take you to that website. Just even differentiating between a a radar returned value of giant boulder and a real tank takes thousands of lines of programming It is not just simple logic.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Geez, when did the French start taking sides? Indian pressure made them change their stance? Now THAT is surprising.
Very unlike them, very "un-French"!

its not about taking sides its pure business .. nothing personal

the problem with us people of sub continent is that we get all emotional and name calling

Frenchies like any other Westerners are businessmen.. they see more sense in keeping Bigger Indian customer sweet.

and if India did play its part then well done

why shouldnt they? its all fair game

the only face saving Pakistan can do is see if the contract was binding and if they can get any compensation
I will request all members to please avoid the emotional melodrama & Indian bashing.
If I have the chance & opportunity I would always try to influence or stop people from equipping my competitors

there might be blessing in disguise.. all French deals come with shady commissions & back channel payoffs at the expense of the nation so good that it didnt happen
or someone might say
yea yea grapes are sour. I will summerize it as follows

well played India
and shame on you Frenchies (even though it was business but there is something called decency or "mans word" never mind)

 

[Ingis]

Is there a connection here?

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-...wins-contract-modernise-india-s-mig-29-a.html

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Since when did you start thinking Pakistan's enemy was some dignified enemy? Gone are the days when some one used to give his/her opponent a fair chance. Here Chankia's pholosphy is being followed who used to preach,

"if you want to kill somebody, become friend with him and when you can, back-stab him, then sit on his dead body and weep that somebody killed your best friend"..

fair chance? what are you talking about? boy its a legit manuver (mind the spellings) whether or not we like it

its Frenchies who need a b****h slap for backing off from the contract. they should pay the compensation (I am sure Mr 100% wont mind)

 

[ambidex]

Thanks to qsaark for recognizing my honesty.

See we have to draw some lines. Its a on going game. Today something has gone in favour of india and i liked it. Pakistanis are very determined people i have no doubt in it. But something had gone wrong with your loyalty with Chinese avionics. Now your are back to square 1 and PAF will operate these new birds with built in(default) Chinese avionics.

Please pay attention on the fact that your birds are new and needs more time to prove themselves as it is, before going for any third party up gradation. It is matter great suspicion that why would you go for european avionics when your collaboration was able to make a perfect platform.

Issues like assembling majority of its parts, money and diplomacy are going to cause obstacles in any other would be deal for the same with third party. So where is the salvation?

India is another example to learn as till date we too are struggling to collect appropriate avionics from third party.
Its easy to drag india in this scenario but one must understand the endless efforts of india to achive what we are today. I hate details but Migs and su30 are always inviting to third parties to have a look and work out things with.

 

[qsaark]

To what extent ?

You are taking part in a discussion and not aware that F-7s are equipped with Italian fire control radar and related accessories? Than perhaps you also don't know that PAC Kamra is assembling those Italian radars....

 

[desiman]

You are taking part in a discussion and not aware that F-7s are equipped with Italian fire control radar and related accessories? Than perhaps you also don't know that PAC Kamra is assembling those Italian radars....

I do know that Qsaark that they are equipped with Italian Grifo-MG radar but that’s nothing ground breaking in any way. Its not even the best Italian radar available. I wanted to ask about the other "Accessories “that you mentioned. My point is that the Italians will offer their tech for sure to Pakistan but what kind is the main question. Pakistan would have much better off with French tech which is superior by all standards. The French aviation industry is more developed than the Italian and they have lots of experience working with South Asian customers.

 

[PakSher]

Pakistan needs to start blocking French Military Supplies through Pakistan, if France is doing that. Indian pressure is not the reason since French sell it to both Pakistan and India.

We block French Army supplies for one month and France will comes to its senses. British Military supplies through Pakistan were blocked in 2008 and things were straightened out between the 2 countries.

 

[desiman]

Pakistan needs to start blocking French Military Supplies through Pakistan, if France is doing that. Indian pressure is not the reason since French sell it to both Pakistan and India.

We block French Army supplies for one month and France will comes to its senses. British Military supplies through Pakistan were blocked in 2008 and things were straightened out between the 2 countries.

Ohh ya that’s a smart thing to do, the French will be very happy after that

 

[MAB]

Ab to aar ho ya par , J10 - J11 tu induct hoker rehain ge , as response to the panik attacks of certain groups - ab heart attack ka time hai

They ruine 1 deal double triple the deals for other crafts

Same Cash 200 new fighters, this is the ideal response

I always questioned why just the avionics ? for 8 billion dollars like we can get 200 fighters from China with AESA radars

We will most likely get the J-10, but J-11 is something that is very unlikely to happen, also it would be hard to maintain something that big in our fleet.