JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[Aesterix]

Wing Reinforcement Makes Thunder More Lethal !

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) has reportedly reinforced the wing roots on JF-17s which enables these aircraft to carry a Mk-84 Bomb under each wing . Until now this capability was only available on F-16s. While most aircraft can carry MK-84 Bombs on centreline station under the belly, very...

defence.pk

The Raad 2 they made for JF-17 Block III , must have same weight

 

[FuturePAF]

So here is how many missiles increase range. They take an upward trajectory initially, and then use gliding to increase range. They then use gravity to increase speed as well. As you increase altitude, air becomes rarified, resulting in less oxygen available for combustion. Which is why missiles carry an oxidizer.

For an air breathing missile, you need to show that combustion is so efficient it can give you speeds of Mach 4 over long distances. I am not aware of any fuel that would do that, but then again, my knowledge in this area is limited.

We should study the Meteor and use a similar technique. Here is a video on how the meteor really works.

Key points form the video: throttlable ducted rocket with atmospheric oxygen being the oxidizer. The secret is the solid Boron based compound in the gas generator, which produces a fuel rich gas the burns continuously while the missile flys to the target. The Specific impulse is estimated to be three times that of equivalent solid propellant rockets. Also the gas flow can be continuously throttled at a ratio of 10:1 (I presume with the atmospheric oxygen, I.e. the oxidizer)

 

[CriticalThought]

We should study the Meteor and use a similar technique. Here is a video on how the meteor really works.

Key points form the video: throttlable ducted rocket with atmospheric oxygen being the oxidizer. The secret is the solid Boron based compound in the gas generator, which produces a fuel rich gas the burns continuously while the missile flys to the target. The Specific impulse is estimated to be three times that of equivalent solid propellant rockets. Also the gas flow can be continuously throttled at a ratio of 10:1 (I presume with the atmospheric oxygen, I.e. the oxidizer)

But we should also not get wowed by marketing gimmickry. Let us ask the question: is the meteor at a disadvantage because of using atmospheric oxygen? What would be its performance at 55K ft and beyond? Are the claims of its performance valid at all altitudes? These are questions you won't find answered in marketing brochures. You will need to acquire and test the weapon in order to find the answers. Or, you will have write fairly sophisticated simulations using available information to get a sense of the answers.

Every system has its pros and cons. You cannot blindly promote an atmospheric oxygen solution as if it is the only one or the best one.

 

[GumNaam]

But we should also not get wowed by marketing gimmickries. Let us ask the question: is the meteor at a disadvantage because of using atmospheric oxygen? What would be its performance at 55K ft and beyond? Are the claims of its performance valid at all altitudes? These are questions you won't find answered in marketing brochures. You will need to acquire and test the weapon in order to find the answers. Or, you will have write fairly sophisticated simulations using available information to get a sense of the answers.

Every system has its pros and cons. You cannot blindly promote an atmospheric oxygen solution as if it is the only one or the best one.

agreed. I dunno why people are hyperventilating over these marketing gimmickery when the manufacturer itself says that it has a range of a little over a hundred kilometers.

The PL15 out ranges it 50 kilometres means that my the time the JF17s are in its range, there's already gonna be a PL15 killing the poor bastard carrying the meteor.

 

[ziaulislam]

agreed. I dunno why people are hyperventilating over these marketing gimmickery when the manufacturer itself says that it has a range of a little over a hundred kilometers.
View attachment 781500
The PL15 out ranges it 50 kilometres means that my the time the JF17s are in its range, there's already gonna be a PL15 killing the poor bastard carrying the meteor.

Range depends upon launch altitude and kinetics
Thus chinese is shortest range(typical launch parameters), americans have modest(best parameters) and russians incredible(theortical parameters)

 

[Marker]

Any Idea ???
View attachment 781215

Data and comm links
1. Satellite links with ground station, command vehicles, air platforms such as AWACS, UAVs and jet fighters etc.
2. Data links UAVs to UAVs, UAVs to command vehicles, UAVs ( wingman???) to fighters (JF-17)
3. Chain data links - Ground station, satellite link, command vehicle, multiple UAV to UAV links to increase data link range.
4. Comm links with weapon system, radar or pathfinder station, command station and ground station.

Complete battle field situational awareness and absolute command and control.

 

[HRK]

Data and comm links
1. Satellite links with ground station, command vehicles, air platforms such as AWACS, UAVs and jet fighters etc.
2. Data links UAVs to UAVs, UAVs to command vehicles, UAVs ( wingman???) to fighters (JF-17)
3. Chain data links - Ground station, satellite link, command vehicle, multiple UAV to UAV links.
4. Comm links with weapon system, radar or pathfinder station, command station and ground station.

Complete battle field situational awareness and absolute command and control.

bhai iis ka tu muje bi pata hai ....

what I was seeking is related to JF-17 blk-III as this UAV link capability was never mention in any marketing material before so this might be the new planned capability which we may see in blk-IV if it is under planning ....

 

[Dazzler]

bhai iis ka tu muje bi pata hai ....

what I was seeking is related to JF-17 blk-III as this UAV link capability was never mention in any marketing material before so this might be the new planned capability which we may see in blk-IV if it is under planning ....

It's there in blk 3.

 

[Marker]

bhai iis ka tu muje bi pata hai ....

what I was seeking is related to JF-17 blk-III as this UAV link capability was never mention in any marketing material before so this might be the new planned capability which we may see in blk-IV if it is under planning ....

Known info available about JF-17 Blk 3 clearly emphasis on situation awareness ability and data link ability. The diagram shows UAV scanning the airfield and probably sharing the data with JF-17. That UAV is also in contact with a satellite which further having link with the home ground station.

Possibility of two way link with the UAV (loyal wingman) and JF-17 may be considered as another up-gradation which was not revealed earlier. It may not be necessary to wait for another block for this up-gradation/ integration

The Chinese airshow is also displaying a "delta" wing air platform with HD-1A.

Another interesting revelation is availability of IFR probe on drones. This means increase in range of UAV operation.

Recent Chinese technology development "pace" shows that any thing shown today in the airshow is already in the final stage of development or probably being implemented or integrated.

Technologies and weapon systems will be available, but it will be PAF command decision to induct them according to the air doctrine which the command opt to follow.

The recent visit of COAS to PAF AHQ and the Chinese display, both confirms one thing that PAF and PA are looking for integrated network of battle field situation awareness and un-compromise command and control. I am sure, a similar integration with PAF and PN be in the pipeline or already implemented without any official affirmation.

 

[serenity]

Range depends upon launch altitude and kinetics
Thus chinese is shortest range(typical launch parameters), americans have modest(best parameters) and russians incredible(theortical parameters)

I think Chinese launch parameters will be similar to American ones rather than giving ourselves hardest parameters. Both are tougher and shorter ranged compared to Russian parameters.

Still the PL-15 is not some 300km range missile. Export version claims 140km and PLAAF's own use is hinted for at least 150km or typically said as >150km using similar launch parameter measurements to what the Americans use. This is standard.

 

[HRK]

Possibility of two way link with the UAV (loyal wingman) and JF-17 may be considered as another up-gradation which was not revealed earlier. It may not be necessary to wait for another block for this up-gradation/ integration

I was interested in this capability ....

The Chinese airshow is also displaying a "delta" wing air platform with HD-1A.

yaap seen that pic it was a model of Mirage Jet ... which China does not operate ....

So I think it was depicting that HD-1A is compatible with relevant MIL STD and can be integrated with european system as per customer need

 

[FuturePAF]

But we should also not get wowed by marketing gimmickry. Let us ask the question: is the meteor at a disadvantage because of using atmospheric oxygen? What would be its performance at 55K ft and beyond? Are the claims of its performance valid at all altitudes? These are questions you won't find answered in marketing brochures. You will need to acquire and test the weapon in order to find the answers. Or, you will have write fairly sophisticated simulations using available information to get a sense of the answers.

Every system has its pros and cons. You cannot blindly promote an atmospheric oxygen solution as if it is the only one or the best one.

Fair point. More information on its performance, pros and cons needs to be ascertained, although I doubt its performance is mostly marketing, it probably does perform best only within a limited flight envelope.

As the most prominent adversary missile, it needs more study.

 

[maverick1977]

Known info available about JF-17 Blk 3 clearly emphasis on situation awareness ability and data link ability. The diagram shows UAV scanning the airfield and probably sharing the data with JF-17. That UAV is also in contact with a satellite which further having link with the home ground station.

Possibility of two way link with the UAV (loyal wingman) and JF-17 may be considered as another up-gradation which was not revealed earlier. It may not be necessary to wait for another block for this up-gradation/ integration

The Chinese airshow is also displaying a "delta" wing air platform with HD-1A.

Another interesting revelation is availability of IFR probe on drones. This means increase in range of UAV operation.

Recent Chinese technology development "pace" shows that any thing shown today in the airshow is already in the final stage of development or probably being implemented or integrated.

Technologies and weapon systems will be available, but it will be PAF command decision to induct them according to the air doctrine which the command opt to follow.

The recent visit of COAS to PAF AHQ and the Chinese display, both confirms one thing that PAF and PA are looking for integrated network of battle field situation awareness and un-compromise command and control. I am sure, a similar integration with PAF and PN be in the pipeline or already implemented without any official affirmation.

Any enemy of Pakistan will need massive electronic warfare capability to distort, jam netcentric network where assets are in constant motion, with command center in the sky will redundant ground links..

For some reason i see the role of JF 17 B dual seater to take center stage as weapons officer will be directing, controlling, sharing and engaging massive targets. this morphed role is becoming more and more a priority and visible in PAF.

 

[mudas777]

An ejection seat is not a weapon of mass destruction. There are international ethics as well that bound many countries.

It may not be weapon of mass destruction but Brits and Western ethics are very selective and like an ON/OFF switch and can be denied to us, don't be under any illusion. One must not forget case of denying Lynx helicopters safety gear and parts when we were under US sanctions.
Some peeps just can't stop thinking sticking any thing Western in JF 17 to make it hostage to Western nod again. Martin Baker ejection seats we can live with as PAF is used to it and we have got option of Chinese seats in case but that's ends their.

 

[Marker]

yaap seen that pic it was a model of Mirage Jet ... which China does not operate ....

So I think it was depicting that HD-1A is compatible with relevant MIL STD and can be integrated with european system as per customer need

IMO if Chinese are displaying delta air platform model, then it may not necessarily be Mirage model, it could be their new loyal wingman drone powered by a jet engine and able to carry 1200 kg payload of HD-1A missile or may be a smaller version of HD-1 series missile.

The original intention of Attack 11 unmanned fighter was “loyal wingman“? In fact, it will be carried on an aircraft carrier in the future

As the world's first practical flying-wing UAV officially in service, the China Attack-11 immediately became the focus of everyone's attention after its debut. After analysis, it w

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