JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[JamD]

Pakistan's lack of aerospace knowledge-base, material sciences centric industrial capacity ensures that Azm will remain just an on-books project for a very long time.

What we'd continue seeing is improvement in stand-off weaponry, everything else will be imported.

Lol! By all means. I like these challenges thrown around here.

"wow grape make 6th gen aircraft"

Are you really surprised by the responses?lol

 

[redtom]

Even with the investment PAF had to fight tooth and nail to get the fighter to where it is today. I think people seem to think the Chinese to the Pakistanis is like Walmart. Go in and puck up any thing you want. People who make procurements know how difficult this is and sometimes what a struggle Pak establishment has to go through to get certain high quality stuff. Even with the JFT there have been times when PAF has gone on and threatened to use third party subsystems before the Chinese come-out with their best. And why should they? They have spent countless hours and umpteen millions making their hardware.
A

This is a very complicated issue.In the past, China's military procurement system was formed during the Cold War. All military equipment manufacturing enterprises are managed by the military.No mechanism is left for export and multi-party cooperation.

Moreover, China's technological level in the past lags far behind that of the West, which has led to China's lack of competitiveness in exporting high-tech equipment.Buyers do not have many choices.

The existing military procurement system has only been established in the last 10 years.The technological explosion period is also this time.The problem is that the price of high-tech equipment also rises with the increase in quality.Most Chinese customers are not very rich.

And China has not engaged in combat equipment for many years without actual combat. Customers can also increase their budget to purchase American products with practical experience.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Pakistan's lack of aerospace knowledge-base, material sciences centric industrial capacity ensures that Azm will remain just an on-books project for a very long time.

What we'd continue seeing is improvement in stand-off weaponry, everything else will be imported.

Yes, but is it not the objective of Azm to remedy these shortfalls? @JamD

 

[kursed]

"wow grape make 6th gen aircraft"
View attachment 687782

Are you really surprised by the responses?lol

Not entirely.

It's wonderful to see our detractors say we can't do this or we can't do that. Please, by all means keep saying that, it only drives us to go from strength to strength in our pursuit for independence in aviation technology, design and manufacturing. The word "impossible" doesn't exist in us and losing is not an option for us. Pakistan is and will continue to prevail against all odds, in-sha-Allah!!

This is not me detracting but talking about what actually is the case. If I was a detractor, I’d ask you not to increase your knowledge and industrial base.

My argument is against holding unrealistic expectations out of this program? That isn’t exactly patriotism. It’s just lack of knowledge of how things work in the real world.

PAF’s choice of MALE is Wing Long II, that’d tell you where Azm is headed. Cheers!

 

[Trango Towers]

Even with the investment PAF had to fight tooth and nail to get the fighter to where it is today. I think people seem to think the Chinese to the Pakistanis is like Walmart. Go in and puck up any thing you want. People who make procurements know how difficult this is and sometimes what a struggle Pak establishment has to go through to get certain high quality stuff. Even with the JFT there have been times when PAF has gone on and threatened to use third party subsystems before the Chinese come-out with their best. And why should they? They have spent countless hours and umpteen millions making their hardware.
A

Thank God at least one person understands this.
Now China has invested heavily in Pakistan and its in their interest to have close military ties to protect their assets and investment.
There is no free lunch

 

[Akh1112]

Not entirely.

This is not me detracting but talking about what actually is the case. If I was a detractor, I’d ask you not to increase your knowledge and industrial base.

My argument is against holding unrealistic expectations out of this program? That isn’t exactly patriotism. It’s just lack of knowledge of how things work in the real world.

PAF’s choice of MALE is Wing Long II, that’d tell you where Azm is headed. Cheers!

The last point could not be more wrong. The PAF's choice of MALE is the Wing Loong because it is ready. It has a wide suite of weapons that come with it and its all good to go. It can be produced quick and be inducted quick. That's why the PAFs choice of male is the Wing Loong. Once they are provided with the alternative under azm, i can assure you that will change, all you need to do is wait and watch. This is like saying, AK2 has been rubbished because the PA has bought VT4s or that the Jinnah class frigates have been scrapped because the PN is purchasing 6 corvettes off the shelf.

 

[kursed]

The last point could not be more wrong. The PAF's choice of MALE is the Wing Loong because it is ready. It has a wide suite of weapons that come with it and its all good to go. It can be produced quick and be inducted quick. That's why the PAFs choice of male is the Wing Loong. Once they are provided with the alternative under azm, i can assure you that will change, all you need to do is wait and watch. This is like saying, AK2 has been rubbished because the PA has bought VT4s or that the Jinnah class frigates have been scrapped because the PN is purchasing 6 corvettes off the shelf.

The point is that this program will take decades to bear fruit, and only after we have a certain knowledge and industrial base in place. People here are expecting it to churn out 5th Gen fighter planes like there's no tomorrow. That's not going to happen.

And yes, waiting and watching on the MALE program - the anticipation here is that it'll come out within the year - so sure, let's see. =)

 

[Akh1112]

The point is that this program will take decades to bear fruit, and only after we have a certain knowledge and industrial base in place. People here are expecting it to churn out 5th Gen fighter planes like there's no tomorrow. That's not going to happen.

And yes, waiting and watching on the MALE program - the anticipation here is that it'll come out within the year - so sure, let's see. =)

Course, i dont know how anyone expects pac to churn out a fgfa this decade, i could see them working on avionics which they are for a fact but to actually release a functioning ready to fly fgfa before like 2040 is asking for alot.

 

[MIRauf]

@Akh1112 Sir if we have the tech to build our MALE UCAV than why we are using CH-3 and renamed it as BARQ

BARQ is the Missile, I think you mean Burraq UCAV.

First Flight Summer of 2009, when Pak needed UCAVs and no one was willing to sell one and in-house was still either design or conceptual phase.

PS: As per another poster, I got a chuckle that a MALE can be designed at home. I am sure that if such can be done, there are companies out there that would hire that person just on merits of writing the code ( millions of line of code ) needed for a MALE UAV / UCAV.

 

[Akh1112]

BARQ is the Missile, I think you mean Burraq UCAV.

First Flight Summer of 2009, when Pak needed UCAVs and no one was willing to sell one and in-house was still either design or conceptual phase.

PS: As per another poster, I got a chuckle that a MALE can be designed at home. I am sure that if such can be done, there are companies out there that would hire that person just on merits of writing the code ( millions of line of code ) needed for a MALE UAV / UCAV.

Correct, i mean, theres readily available FCS so...

Damn, MALE uavs have more lines of code than the Raptor?

Regardless of your baseless claim. If you need any more evidence, i can provide you with some university projects

Infact, a friend even made a SDB out of a bottle to drop from his variant.

 

[MIRauf]

Correct, i mean, theres readily available FCS so...

Damn, MALE uavs have more lines of code than the Raptor?

Regardless of your baseless claim. If you need any more evidence, i can provide you with some university projects

Infact, a friend even made a SDB out of a bottle to drop from his variant.

We have a crazy kid in neighborhood that turned one into flying flamethrower, doesn't qualify as MALE.

University ? nah, lets stick to Home made per your claim. Since in the US most Aerospace Grad Students do lot's of research as part of their Phds, funded by Aerospace companies like Lockmart, Boeing etc, I am sure UK does the same.

PS: I just have an Avg 42" chest, so I don't make tall claims of having 60" inch, you can claim my points as baseless, but you can check with TAI for lines of code they needed, or AVIC for theirs.

https://www.f35.com/about/life-cycle/software " Underpinning the F-35’s unrivaled capabilities is more than 8 million lines of software code. F-22 has over or close to 2 Million ".

 

[Akh1112]

We have a crazy kid in neighborhood that turned one into flying flamethrower, doesn't qualify as MALE.

University ? nah, lets stick to Home made per your claim. Since in US most Aerospace Grad Students do lot's of research as part of their Phds, funded by Aerospace companies like Lockmart, Boeing etc, I am sure UK does the same.

PS: I just have an Avg 42" chest, so I don't make tall claims of having 60" inch, you can claim my points as baseless, but you can check with TAI for lines of code they needed, or AVIC for theirs.

Well done, if you want to be pedantic, if someone dedicated the time, research and resources needed, im sure they can do one at home. Buy a pre done FCS, modify it to your requirements and then get to work on the airframe with off the shelf components. Source: i did something similar when i was younger with vastly less knowledge, i managed to pull around 5 hours of theoretical flight time with a scale model, a terrible design but it worked. Anyway, heck, lets say you are right. Nobody in the world could build a long endurance uav that operates at a reasonable altitude, ok? The PAF or PAC is not a hobbyist, they have access to more resources and equipment than a hobbyist or a university student. I also love how you conveniently left out the rest of the statement where i mentioned numerous smaller countries with lesser experience also having completed their own programs?

Please tell me how many lines of code TAI or AVIC needed, infact, i'm shocked you managed to get a response out of AVIC, tell me more, do you have an insider there? a relative? friend? contact? lover? are you a spy? Im very impressed you managed to get such details out of AVIC, one of the most secretive aviation conglomerates out there. Heck, same applies to TAI, how'd you managed to get that information out of them, very surprising.

P.S, i dont recall asking about your bra size.

 

[MIRauf]

P.S, i dont recall asking about your bra size.

This explains it all, you have comprehension issue, you can't tell when someone writes "chest" and your brain tells you "breast," oh /sigh.

Sir, I give up, yours is bigger then mine, you can have the crown. Good luck with " In home MALE UCAV project." Something tells me that you are either a Pakistani Military Service man or related to someone who is, I could be totally wrong though, but your logic points to as such and the manor you write in.

 

[Akh1112]

This explains it all, you have comprehension issue, you can't tell when someone writes "chest" and your brain tells you "breast," oh /sigh.

Sir, I give up, yours is bigger then mine, you can have the crown. Good luck with " In home MALE UCAV project." Something tells me that you are either a Pakistani Military Service man or related to someone who is, I could be totally wrong though, but your logic points to as such and the manor you write in.

It was in jest, do not cry.

 

[JamD]

Yes, but is it not the objective of Azm to remedy these shortfalls? @JamD

Yes it is. All @kursed is saying here is that this process will/should/does take decades. This shouldn't be breaking news to anyone (but apparently it is).

PAF’s choice of MALE is Wing Long II, that’d tell you where Azm is headed. Cheers!

whaaaaaa?
@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Ark_Angel