JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[Pakistani Fighter]

How much do you know about the EW of blk 2?

Well it uses ALQ-500P and can be fittes with KG 600

 

[Dazzler]

Well it uses ALQ-500P and can be fittes with KG 600

Do you know how capable or incapable both these systems are?

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Do you know how capable or incapable both these systems are?

No but US EW systems are battle proven thats why I said so. Plus Spain and China is way behind US in EW/ECM Technology

 

[Dazzler]

No but US EW systems are battle proven thats why I said so. Plus Spain and China is way behind US in EW/ECM Technology

It could be your assumption, after all, these systems were inducted after years of testing and were found to perform excellent under dense EW scenarios. Also, these are not the only systems around, there are others.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

https://thediplomat.com/2020/01/pakistans-jf-17-block-iii-fighter-jet-makes-maiden-flight/

Pakistan’s JF-17 Block III Fighter Jet Makes Maiden Flight
The single-seat fighter jet took to the skies for the first time last month.

Image is also there.

 

[StormBreaker]

https://thediplomat.com/2020/01/pakistans-jf-17-block-iii-fighter-jet-makes-maiden-flight/

Pakistan’s JF-17 Block III Fighter Jet Makes Maiden Flight
The single-seat fighter jet took to the skies for the first time last month.

Image is also there.

The Article is very well written. Perhaps the best one yet. It has quite accurate data and i believe the maker went through pdf as well since he is mentioning the production capacity of PAC which i think isn’t available on Chinese forums.

 

[Deino]

https://thediplomat.com/2020/01/pakistans-jf-17-block-iii-fighter-jet-makes-maiden-flight/

Pakistan’s JF-17 Block III Fighter Jet Makes Maiden Flight
The single-seat fighter jet took to the skies for the first time last month.

Image is also there.

And indeed he quoted my own report

 

[StormBreaker]

And indeed he quoted my own report

Ohh, you also write for Jane’s ? So i was write indeed

Great to see this. Jane’s isn’t good quality for no reason.

 

[krash]

i always thought TWR of 1 or little above (while loaded) can give it better performance in dogfight

Very few aircraft have a TWR of >1 while "fully" loaded. If wikipedia can be trusted then the F-16, Su-30 MKM, Rafale, F-15, F-35, etc. do not.

Secondly, even if the composites are introduced and the weight of the JF17 has been brought down. Given the Aesa, PL 15, Avionics (next generation equipment but heavy compared to predecessors) etc will add up and negate the weight difference achieved using composite in terms of thrust to weight ratio then how the JF will achieve better thrust to weight ratio?

Not as clear cut as that. For example, the KLJ-7 on the Block 1 is stated at =< 120Kg. The weight of the KLJ-7A is not openly declared but the LKF601E is stated at =<145Kg. A difference of 25Kg is not going to do a lot to the aircraft. Furthermore, moving to FBW or FBO is going to save a, relatively, considerable amount of weight in the Block 3. That said, the JF-17 is still a long way off from being made 100% with composites. The percentage of composites in the JF-17 and any other aircraft, for that matter, is an constraint equation between weight and cost. Can we reduce the weight of the Block 3 further by introducing more composites? Yes we can. Would it make financial and operational sense? Apparently not, since PAC/CAC did not go for a higher percentage. Keep in mind that we were able to compensate for the added weight of an extra pilot, his/her seat and all the associated instrumentation in the two-seater that are not in the Block 3.

what do you think? I pointed this out before but some people have dismissed it as just bad artwork that is showing the centerline fuel tank as off to the side. I disagree. if you compare that device I pointed to with the green arrow, it looks nothing like the fuel tanks shown under the wings, not even remotely close. It looks like a pod, not a fuel tank...so I think the Block 3 WILL have AT LEAST one extra mount point under the right intake if not both intakes.
View attachment 596846

The pod can also be mounted on the center hard point. So being a pod instead of a fuel tank does not necessarily mean that it's a new hard point.

If it was a landing picture, I would assume that the airbreaks would be open but they are not.

Not necessarily. Notice how no air brakes have been deployed.

could be...I'm still not fully convinced albeit, gettin' there.

The flaps and the engine nozzle positions clearly indicate that it's landing.

Oh bhai this is a breaking chute which is deployed after landing for slow down, this can't be deployed in air, becuase its destabilized aircraft if deploy in air

If you look closely then you'll notice that even though the aircraft is landing and it's drogue shoot is deployed the air-brakes are not. I believe that is what @StormBreaker was pointing towards.

 

[Deino]

Ohh, you also write for Jane’s ? So i was write indeed

Great to see this. Jane’s isn’t good quality for no reason.

Hmm?? Maybe I got your reply wrong, ... you think the report is bad and the fact that I'm writing for Jane's is a reason for their not so good quality?

Care to explain what You don't like, what facts I made wrong or what's missing?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Hmm?? Maybe I got your reply wrong, ... you think the report is bad and the fact that I'm writing for Jane's is a reason for their not so good quality?

Care to explain what You don't like, what facts I made wrong or what's missing?

I think he's saying you did a good job, and that Jane's is good because folks like you write for it.

 

[Roller321321]

Hmm?? Maybe I got your reply wrong, ... you think the report is bad and the fact that I'm writing for Jane's is a reason for their not so good quality?

Care to explain what You don't like, what facts I made wrong or what's missing?

"isn't good quality for no reason" that's a double negative, he was complimenting you

 

[StormBreaker]

Hmm?? Maybe I got your reply wrong, ... you think the report is bad and the fact that I'm writing for Jane's is a reason for their not so good quality?

Care to explain what You don't like, what facts I made wrong or what's missing?

I think he's saying you did a good job, and that Jane's is good because folks like you write for it.

Some times things are plain as simple like Bilal said.

I appreciated your work coz i know how much time you give to this, the thoughts and the dots you connect.

With all that in mind, you have the key to write good informative article because the KEY IS HIGH BACKGROUND KNOWLEDGE.

Janes is my all time favorite bro and my post meant that is because of people like you

"isn't good quality for no reason" that's a double negative, he was complimenting you

I myself got confused while writing the statement and had i wrote the earlier draft, it would exactly mean what deino thinks

 

[Deino]

Some times things are plain as simple like Bilal said.

I appreciated your work coz i know how much time you give to this, the thoughts and the dots you connect.

With all that in mind, you have the key to write good informative article because the KEY IS HIGH BACKGROUND KNOWLEDGE.

Janes is my all time favorite bro and my post meant that is because of people like you


I myself got confused while writing the statement and had i wrote the earlier draft, it would exactly mean what deino thinks

Thanks a lot to you three @StormBreaker , @Bilal Khan (Quwa) and @Roller321321 ... I beg your pardon for my misunderstanding!

 

[denel]

More 'Thunder' in China's Air
December saw the ceremonial rollout of the first batch of eight two-seat, dual-control JF-17B Thunder fighters and also marked the inaugural flight of the first prototype of the new generation Block III JF-17.

The JF-17 Thunder is a lightweight, single-engine, multi-role fighter that was jointly developed by China’s Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) and the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) and that is in production at PAC's Kamra facility. The JF-17 has not been procured by the People’s Liberation Army Air Force but does also use the alternate FC-1 designation and the Chinese name Xiāo Lóng (Fierce Dragon).

In Pakistan Air Force (PAF) service, the JF-17 Thunder has accumulated about 20,000 operational flying hours since its official introduction to service in 2011. Fifty Block I aircraft were delivered before production switched to the improved Block II in December 2013. The 62 Block II aircraft introduced improved avionics, a new datalink, and improved electronic warfare capabilities as well as increased weapons-carrying capacity. All but the first 24 or so also incorporated an air-to-air refueling capability. Deliveries of the Block II variant ended in June 2019, by which time the PAF had equipped five front-line JF-17 squadrons.

The PAF will also receive 50 more single-seat JF-17s, to be delivered in a new Block III configuration. The Block III prototype made its first flight on December 15, 2019, at Chengdu, and the first two production aircraft are already “in build” at Kamra. The remainder will follow at a rate of 12 per year from 2021 onwards.

The Block III features an Aurora EHUD-2 wide-angle holographic head-up display as used in the new J-20, and a new electronic warfare system incorporating an S740 Airborne Missile Approach Warning System from the J-10C, with relocated infrared missile approach warning sensors. An air-to-air refueling probe light is fitted, and the aircraft has new LED landing lights. Some sources suggest that the airframe is strengthened and that there are further cockpit and avionics improvements (possibly including a single, large-area head-down display), but this cannot be confirmed. The aircraft may have a revised flight management system and a new fly-by-wire flight control system.


Early reports predicted that the aircraft would have a new Chinese-made active electronically scanned array radar to replace the mechanically-scanned KLJ-7V2 X-band multifunction pulse-Doppler radar. There are two options: the Nanjing Research Institute of Electronics Technology’s KLJ-7A and the Leihua Electronic Technology Research Institute’s LKF601E. Reports that the aircraft might be fitted with a Leonardo (Selex) Vixen 1000E seem unlikely.

The aircraft is expected to incorporate a helmet-mounted display (possibly of South African origin, and perhaps to be used in association with the Denel A-Darter high off-boresight within visual range air-to-air missile). It is also expected to be fitted with an additional fuselage hardpoint intended to carry a WMD-7 targeting pod (a Chinese equivalent to the Lockheed Martin sniper pod).

The Thunder has already been used operationally by the PAF, participating in operations against militants in North Waziristan. The PAF also claims that its JF-17s shot down an Indian Air Force MiG-21 and a Su-30MKI on February 27, 2019.

The JF-17 secured its first export contract from Myanmar in June 2015. The first of 16 JF-17Ms (to Block II standard) made its first flight at Chengdu on June 13, 2017, and the type entered service in 2018. The Myanmar order included at least two two-seat JF-17Bs. The prototype JF-17B made its first flight from Chengdu on April 27, 2017, and the Myanmar trainers were delivered by late March 2019.

PAC completed eight two-seat JF-17Bs at Kamra in 2019 and it will produce 14 more in 2020 and four in 2021 to meet PAF requirements. The first batch of eight JF-17Bs was ceremonially rolled out at Kamra on December 27, 2019, in the presence of Air Chief Marshall Mujahid Anwar Khan.

@denel

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2020-01-02/more-thunder-chinas-air

That is a distinct possibility for the hdms; they could do a hybrid solution. I may not be surprised it that is what may happen especially when they have slated for a 5th gen high off bore VVR such as A-Darter.