Japan out as China emerges new contender in Karachi Circular Railway project

[Sipahi]

Very hard for other countries to invest in Pakistan as it seems China is vetoing others' investments.

you are more then welcome to invest but not in terrorism.

 

[Kabira]

Read history of this project. Japan already backed out years ago. China have decided to invest because of CPEC. Its a loan which will be payed back with 1 or 2% interest over 25-30 years.

Pakistan isn’t putting all egs in same basket, its just that no one else is willing to take risk on projects which need billions of $ investment.

Also looks like Japan plan was to build it in 10 years vs China which will do it in 3 years.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Read history of this project. Japan already backed out years ago. China have decided to invest because of CPEC. Its a loan which will be payed back with 1 or 2% interest over 25-30 years.

Pakistan isn’t putting all egs in same basket, its just that no one else is willing to take risk on projects which need billions of $ investment.

Also looks like Japan plan was to build it in 10 years vs China which will do it in 3 years.

you missed one point. Neither in CPEC or here are the telling you what margins the sub-contractors are taking. 2% is loan amount interest. China insists on Chinese companies and people doing all the work. Are the wages competitive? of course not- Pak workers will be a fraction of the price. Are the margins transparent? No. At 40 Billion USD for CPEC a 10% margin would be 4 Billion, I'm sure that's gonna be wayyyy higher.

you are more then welcome to invest but not in terrorism.

There is no chance for anyone else dude, I think it's clear that for whatever reason your establishment has decided to keep china happy by giving them contacts, maybe they're good at greasing palms.

 

[shahbaz baig]

share us the feasibility report and that's all. we can easily understand about the project by knowing the real feasibility report and the plan.
However China Vs Japan. i would personally prefer China..
Despite Japan has really sophisticated, Innovative Technology but Japan has failed to deliver the project on time. in my opinion this project will take 5 to 6 years no doubt about it. China can get cheap labor in Pakistan then Chinese it self to save the project cost which can greatly compensate the amount in case of any delay in the project.

in my opinion both brotherly countries are learning by helping to each other. one is providing the ground and one is experiencing more. either Pakistan or china.

however we (China-Pakistan) should have alternative to learn from different sources too.

 

[Syed1.]

Read history of this project. Japan already backed out years ago. China have decided to invest because of CPEC. Its a loan which will be payed back with 1 or 2% interest over 25-30 years.

Pakistan isn’t putting all egs in same basket, its just that no one else is willing to take risk on projects which need billions of $ investment.

Also looks like Japan plan was to build it in 10 years vs China which will do it in 3 years.

Japan planned to make the KCR a lot more extensive with more lines and extensions to other parts of the city. China is just redoing the existing line and "modernizing" it by building overhead or underground tracks where on-grade are no longer feasible. The existing KCR route was outdated all the way back in the 1990s. The city has expanded far beyond it's covered area.

 

[shahbaz baig]

Japan planned to make the KCR a lot more extensive with more lines and extensions to other parts of the city. China is just redoing the existing line and "modernizing" it by building overhead or underground tracks where on-grade are no longer feasible. The existing KCR route was outdated all the way back in the 1990s. The city has expanded far beyond it's covered area.

can you share the Japanese feasibility & plan report with us ?

 

[Misay]

Japan's accession is a good thing.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

Lol at the false flagging Indians in this thread trying to stir up bad blood between China and Pakistan.

 

[LeGenD]

Good riddance. Japs are part of American led group in Asia which includes India as well. Our projects must go to our allies.

One of the worst comments I have seen in this forum in years.

So we stop using Japanese goods as well due to that? Japanese products are renowned for their quality and durability worldwide.

1. Pakistan has no beef with Japan.
2. World is much bigger than China and Pakistan [should have] a mutually beneficial relationship with a large number of states.

Prove it that there were bribes involved or you just talking shit like always?

I think you are not aware how PML(N) and PPP do business. To them, commissions are very important.

And [private] Chinese corporations are always willing to oblige.

Japan planned to make the KCR a lot more extensive with more lines and extensions to other parts of the city. China is just redoing the existing line and "modernizing" it by building overhead or underground tracks where on-grade are no longer feasible. The existing KCR route was outdated all the way back in the 1990s. The city has expanded far beyond it's covered area.

Good point.

People need to do their homework before commenting on these matters.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

So we stop using Japanese goods as well due to that? Japanese products are renowned for their quality and durability worldwide. One of the worst posts I have seen in this forum in years.

1. Pakistan has no beef with Japan.
2. World is much bigger than China and Pakistan [should have] a mutually beneficial relationship with a large number of states.

Quality wise Chinese are not far.

Ofcourse it will not make much sense to you, it needs grasp of geopolitics.

Japan has to direct beef with us ofcourse but when it comes between them and Chinese, ofcourse the projects will go to Chinese. Those who are alligned with our enemy, needs to understand that there will be conseqences in some shape or form. There are no free lunches anymore.

 

[El Sidd]

@PakSword why don't you share a Karachiites view on this

 

[PakSword]

@PakSword why don't you share a Karachiites view on this

If the bidding is fair, why not?

Usually when proposals are evaluated, following aspects are assessed:

1 - Quality of Service/ Product
2 - Cost/ Price
3 - Post Acquisition Services and Warranties
4 - Previous Experience
5 - Adaptability
6 - Possibility of Establishing Local Servicing Centers/ Mechanical Workshops

Above is not an exhaustive list, but some very key aspects which are evaluated.

If China has beaten Japan on the above aspects, why not? China is running one of the largest (if not the largest) rail networks without any issues.

 

[LeGenD]

Quality wise Chinese are not far.

Japanese are miles ahead of China in critical aspects of engineering.

Ofcourse it will not make much sense to you, it needs grasp of geopolitics.

Japan has to direct beef with us ofcourse but when it comes between them and Chinese, ofcourse the projects will go to Chinese. Those who are alligned with our enemy, needs to understand that there will be conseqences in some shape or form. There are no free lunches anymore.

And your grasp of geopolitics is self-imposed isolation in favor of China? How well has this worked out for North Korea and Venezuela?

It is easy for Chinese firms to get contracts without facing much competition in Pakistan. The Bhutto(s) of PPP and Sharif(s) of PML(N) do not have any sense of strategic depth and vision for foreign policy of Pakistan - their worldview starts from China and ends at China (no disrespect intended to Chinese members here). To them, commissions are more important than quality work and scores of Chinese firms are willing to oblige them in this respect. However, common folk get the impression that (only) China is serious about investing in Pakistan [which is not true] and they are winning contracts in completely fair bids [which is not true].

I live in Lahore and I have seen how much quality work is occurring here. A large number of roads are in terrible condition, public transportation is almost irrelevant in many areas and even the new METRO project looks shaddy.

If the bidding is fair, why not?

Usually when proposals are evaluated, following aspects are assessed:

1 - Quality of Service/ Product
2 - Cost/ Price
3 - Post Acquisition Services and Warranties
4 - Previous Experience
5 - Adaptability
6 - Possibility of Establishing Local Servicing Centers/ Mechanical Workshops

Above is not an exhaustive list, but some very key aspects which are evaluated.

If China has beaten Japan on the above aspects, why not? China is running one of the largest (if not the largest) rail networks without any issues.

IF is the key word in that.

Do you know why Japanese plan never materialized?

Back in 2009, Japan International Cooperation Agency (JICA) showed its interest in this project which would have cost them almost $2609.32 million but years later their interest was overshadowed due to the hurdles in the project mainly encroachment on the mainline.

Source: https://www.geo.tv/latest/126364-Ja...18-years-after-closure-KCR-to-start-this-year

Now that a Chinese firm has taken interest in this project, encroachment is no longer an issue?

Hint: COMMISSIONS

 

[El Sidd]

Japanese are miles ahead of China in critical aspects of engineering.


And your grasp of geopolitics is self-imposed isolation in favor of China? How well has this worked out for North Korea and Venezuela?

It is easy for Chinese firms to get contracts without facing much competition in Pakistan. The Bhutto(s) of PPP and Sharif(s) of PML(N) do not have any sense of strategic depth and vision for foreign policy of Pakistan - their worldview starts from China and ends at China (no disrespect intended to Chinese members here). To them, commissions are more important than quality work and scores of Chinese firms are willing to oblige them in this respect. However, common folk get the impression that (only) China is serious about investing in Pakistan [which is not true] and they are winning contracts in completely fair bids [which is not true].

I live in Lahore and I have seen how much quality work is occurring here. A large number of roads are in terrible condition, public transportation is almost irrelevant in many areas and even the new METRO project looks shaddy.


IF is the key word in that.

I can understand the frustration of Lahore.

Will they vote for Shahbaz again? It seems misgovernance is translated in some diplomatic dogma here

 

[LeGenD]

I can understand the frustration of Lahore.

Will they vote for Shahbaz again? It seems misgovernance is translated in some diplomatic dogma here

My vote is reserved for PTI.

Shahbaz Sharif is overrated.