Japan out as China emerges new contender in Karachi Circular Railway project

[El Sidd]

My vote is reserved for PTI.

Shahbaz Sharif is overrated.

TMI

 

[WhyCry]

Quality wise Chinese are not far.

Ofcourse it will not make much sense to you, it needs grasp of geopolitics.

Japan has to direct beef with us ofcourse but when it comes between them and Chinese, ofcourse the projects will go to Chinese. Those who are alligned with our enemy, needs to understand that there will be conseqences in some shape or form. There are no free lunches anymore.

Japanese are miles ahead of China in critical aspects of engineering.

Just my 2 cents from experience, Japan was investing in India for a bridge around 1996-1997, They were to make the bridge in 4-5 years and the cost was upwards of 600 Crores (That time amount). It WON the bid and started working on it and finished the same in around 9-10 months. They even got the completion certificate under 1 year. Remember there was babu-raj and that itself takes over months and/or bribes. At the end they finished the project, gave contractors the knowledge, technology and equipment to use and bureaucrats what to expect in terms for quality and construction time. With-in next 7 years Delhi and surrounding areas were infested with bridges, over-bridges and new roads.

In case I forgot to tell you, the initial bridge they build, they didn't even charged a penny. It was told that this was a token of appreciation for India-Japan relationship.

FYI- Indian PM Modi is doing the same for railways.

 

[Kabira]

Japan planned to make the KCR a lot more extensive with more lines and extensions to other parts of the city. China is just redoing the existing line and "modernizing" it by building overhead or underground tracks where on-grade are no longer feasible. The existing KCR route was outdated all the way back in the 1990s. The city has expanded far beyond it's covered area.

Japan KCR plan was similar back in 2012 and they were going to take 10 years.

"The $1.558 billion project, which is considered to be vital for tackling the traffic woes of the city, has faced continuous delays as Pakistan’s government has focused on meeting immediate security concerns and economic challenges. “There is no reason for being disappointed now. Everything is moving ahead,” said Khilji.

CR, which is an attractive alternative to the congested public buses, will circle the city and cut travelling time by half. It will cater to about 700,000 people a day. Japan International Cooperation Agency will bear 93 percent of the project’s cost and the railway will be operational by 2017. The electrical locomotives will run at an average speed of 44 km per hour on a system of elevated, on-the-ground and tunnel track spanning 43.12 kilometres. KCR will also have 24 stations and a train will pass through each one of them every six minutes."
https://tribune.com.pk/story/406990/circular-railway-japanese-govt-will-cover-93-cost-of-kcr/

Now cost is Rs270b which is around $2.5B and likely will be better then Japan plan.

 

[WhyCry]

My vote is reserved for PTI.

Shahbaz Sharif is overrated.

Kejriwal effect .

 

[Kabira]

If the bidding is fair, why not?

Usually when proposals are evaluated, following aspects are assessed:

1 - Quality of Service/ Product
2 - Cost/ Price
3 - Post Acquisition Services and Warranties
4 - Previous Experience
5 - Adaptability
6 - Possibility of Establishing Local Servicing Centers/ Mechanical Workshops

Above is not an exhaustive list, but some very key aspects which are evaluated.

If China has beaten Japan on the above aspects, why not? China is running one of the largest (if not the largest) rail networks without any issues.

More importantly Japan isn't coming to invest anyway even without China.

 

[El Sidd]

More importantly Japan isn't coming to invest anyway even without China.

Japan is a willing trade partner and still bids ferociously in Pakistan.

They are however easily disappointed by the rampant corruption in Sindh and Karachi.

I can say this on authority.

 

[LeGenD]

Now cost is Rs270b which is around $2.5B and likely will be better then Japan plan.

Rising costs are not an indication of a better plan, necessarily. In-fact, this is a bad analogy to assess a plan.

 

[PakSword]

I don't think China is much behind in technology specifically in railways.. More importantly, Japan has experience of dealing with the issues we face in Pakistan as it has recently faced similar issues in China (talking about the bad infrastructure etc). Japanese don't have experience of working in areas like Karachi..

Japanese will have to first learn how to deal with Mafias in Pakistan.. Chinese are already experts in dealing with mafias.. In my honest opinion, even if we give the project to Japan, there is a risk of their departure at a later stage..

 

[El Sidd]

I don't think China is much behind in technology specifically in railways.. More importantly, Japan has experience of dealing with the issues we face in Pakistan as it has recently faced similar issues in China (talking about the bad infrastructure etc). Japanese don't have experience of working in areas like Karachi..

Japanese will have to first learn how to deal with Mafias in Pakistan.. Chinese are already experts in dealing with mafias.. In my honest opinion, even if we give the project to Japan, there is a risk of their departure at a later stage..

Have you been to Tokyo?

Lol

I would be very careful in saying Japanese don't know how to deal with the Mafia.

Saiko!!

 

[PakSword]

Have you been to Tokyo?

Lol

I would be very careful in saying Japanese don't know how to deal with the Mafia.

Saiko!!

Mafias tou kab ke khatam hochukay... I mean agar hain bhi, tou Karachi ke mafias main aur Japanese Mafias main zameen aasman ka farq hai.. Japan has no clue.. Chinese have been dealing with them for years now..

I live in Karachi, I know what they will go through..

 

[El Sidd]

Mafias tou kab ke khatam hochukay... I mean agar hain bhi, tou Karachi ke mafias main aur Japanese Mafias main zameen aasman ka farq hai.. Japan has no clue.. Chinese have been dealing with them for years now..

I live in Karachi, I know what they will go through..

Sir Japanese mafia is a world famous phenomenon.

Japanese trade on one to one basis.

They get swarmed by PPP and MQM along with others the moment they even hint.

Ever wondered why Japanese consulate in Karachi is the most secured than the rest.

Simply because they are hardworking people who trust Pakistan.

 

[PakSword]

Ever wondered why Japanese consulate in Karachi is the most secured than the rest.

Simply because they are hardworking people who trust Pakistan.

in 2 jumlon main rabt nazar nahi aaraha..

 

[El Sidd]

in 2 jumlon main rabt nazar nahi aaraha..

Sir wo atay hai chahe jo risk ho. Mehnti qaum hai.

Yaha pareshan hojate hai k kisse deal Karen.

German ya Japani kabhi business nahi karega jab tak qanooni coverage na mile.

Unko security dena parti hai. Isliye

Warna malang log hain.

 

[PakSword]

Yaha pareshan hojate hai k kisse deal Karen.

yeh cheez.. yehi main kehna chah raha tha.. shukar hai aap ne khud hi keh dia..

Yahan Courts bhi mafia ka part hain, political parties bhi, institutions bhi, transporters bhi, aur general public bhi... election commission bhi aur national assembly bhi..

 

[Darth Vader]

Costs are an important factor no doubt, but having several "Suppliers" for example, helps mitigate some risks involved with having just one supplier/party. All respect to China, but personally as a businessman, I would never ever rely on one party to provide everything. It gives it far too much leverage over me, apart from the previously mentioned issues. It also provides a wider range of channels from which to procure goods and services, creating competition between different companies and service providers, and ensuring a higher quality of work and end product.

And more importantly, it provides an incentive to other foreign companies that we are open for business and investment from a much more diverse source, instead of showing bias to one over another.

Few Points ,
Japan , China
Greater Leverage ,
how many countries were running to invest in Pakistan Before CEPC ?
which country is investing 1/3 of the amount in china is investing in Pakistan
Yes Debt will always be problem but Chinese are not that idiot to invest that much amount in some other country without knowing there investment will Pay off
Majority of these Projects are being done by China
Because Pakistani Gov wasnt doing Jack Beside point fingers and corruption , and that involves past Govs 2 ,
Pakistani Nation will be the who will take benefit from these projects , and when you take a loan you have to pay it back happens everywhere no free lunches
and 1 Major Point ,
If China and Japan has to infrastructure in some 3rd country few things comes in play
Infrastructure , Importing Items , Work Force, China fills all these points and much cheaper rate
and if its cheaper who will take the most advantage ? beside Gov it will be people
You Can start a built train but will it feasible if no one can afford it
and Before point fingers without any reason
Please Give some Proof , Everything Pakistani Gov is not a great conspiracy against Pakistani nations