ML-1 railway: Pakistan, China decide to execute $10bn project

[Maula Jatt]

that was used to be $7.5 billion.

Who will pay back and how?

They'll leave for UK, handlers will also leave

We'll end up paying for all this, no wonder Chinese government love SS so much

 

[KaiserX]

10bn for this project? What is the interest rate? ROI? Expected revenue. Sadly I doubt this will be a profitable project. 10bn would be far better spent on building kalbalgh dam, building universities, hospitals. But 10bn to upgrade a rail line?

I mean for that much you could build a bullet train from islamabad to karachi connecting lahore, faisalabad, multan, hyderabad on the way. Would literally pay for itself within a few years.

Is there no domestic pakistani company capable of upgrading a rail line weve used since last 75 years for far far less? How abt these generals who own so many contracting companies? Could they not do the job for say 2bn?

This deal wreaks of corruption

 

[Sliver]

so race for next IMF bail out begins
cos you need to pay for this $10bn line?
and since its CPEC, it will be
chinese tech (Acceptable)
chinese companies (no open tendering - so debatable and not good)
chinese man power (should have been pak man power)

but security by pak
and $$ from pak

 

[[--Leo--]]

Another big scandal coming up 6.7 billion dollar project will be done in 10 billion dollar think how much high official's are getting even in the establishment

 

[MH.Yang]

Railway?

Almost all railway passenger services in the world are operating at a loss. How does the Pakistani government plan to recover such high railway costs?

US $10 billion. Wouldn't it be safer and more worthwhile to invest so much money in hydropower, highways and other projects?

 

[etylo]

10bn for this project? What is the interest rate? ROI? Expected revenue. Sadly I doubt this will be a profitable project. 10bn would be far better spent on building kalbalgh dam, building universities, hospitals. But 10bn to upgrade a rail line?

I mean for that much you could build a bullet train from islamabad to karachi connecting lahore, faisalabad, multan, hyderabad on the way. Would literally pay for itself within a few years.

Is there no domestic pakistani company capable of upgrading a rail line weve used since last 75 years for far far less? How abt these generals who own so many contracting companies? Could they not do the job for say 2bn?

This deal wreaks of corruption

The high speed rail by Japanese from Mumbai to Ahmedabad which is 500 km in length is originally costing 15 billion USD and now it balloons to 20 billion USD, and Islamabad to Karachi is almost 1200 km in length, you want the Chinese to build a high speed rail between the two cities for 10 billion USD, be realistic please.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

High speed rail in developing countries, whether IND, PAK or BD, is a serious waste of money- just satisfies the Leaders vanity and nothing else.

Regards

 

[KaiserX]

The high speed rail by Japanese from Mumbai to Ahmedabad which is 500 km in length is originally costing 15 billion USD and now it balloons to 20 billion USD, and Islamabad to Karachi is almost 1200 km in length, you want the Chinese to build a high speed rail between the two cities for 10 billion USD, be realistic please.

Many years ago the quotes cost to construct a high speed rail line was around 15 million per KM. Due to economies of scale and chinese expertise the cost would have come down significantly. Even if its a few billion more such a project would have a far higher ROI than any other CPEC project. Connecting 70% of pak ls population of over 150+ million.

This begs the question. How are these projects being approved? Is ROI even being looked at? Are these projects being sourced via local pakistani requirements?

Sure we have seen many many pakistanis employed including key technical engineering and management positions. But are such skills and knowledge going to be indignized so in future pakistani companies can build similar projects as chinese are right now. Maybe the solution here lies in involving local pakistani companies in partnership on CPEC contracts.

 

[nahtanbob]

Many years ago the quotes cost to construct a high speed rail line was around 15 million per KM. Due to economies of scale and chinese expertise the cost would have come down significantly. Even if its a few billion more such a project would have a far higher ROI than any other CPEC project. Connecting 70% of pak ls population of over 150+ million.

This begs the question. How are these projects being approved? Is ROI even being looked at? Are these projects being sourced via local pakistani requirements?

Sure we have seen many many pakistanis employed including key technical engineering and management positions. But are such skills and knowledge going to be indignized so in future pakistani companies can build similar projects as chinese are right now. Maybe the solution here lies in involving local pakistani companies in partnership on CPEC contracts.

Why would China do that ? They have zero interest

View attachment 890005

• JCC decides to undertake business-to-business deals under CPEC.
• Pakistan assures of taking initiatives for security of Chinese.
• Both sides agree to expand cooperation in information technology.

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan and China on Thursday agreed to execute the Mainline-1 (ML-1) railway project at an estimated cost of $10 billion, The News reported.

The Joint Coordination Committee (JCC) also decided to undertake business-to-business deals under the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC). Pakistan will also request for the rollover of deposits and rescheduling of its $27 billion debt.

During the meeting, Pakistan assured China of taking several initiatives for the security of Chinese working under CPEC projects. Both sides have agreed to expand their cooperation in information technology and it was decided that Chinese companies will establish research centres in Pakistan to explore new avenues in this sector.

Pakistan and China held the 11th JCC meeting virtually but both sides could not sign the minutes of the meeting. It was expected that the minutes of the meeting will be signed during the upcoming visit of Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif who, along with a high-powered delegation, will be visiting China from November 1, 2022.

The CPEC meeting was held in Islamabad with both sides expressing satisfaction over the ongoing projects under CPEC while several other projects were proposed. The meeting was co-chaired by Planning Minister Ahsan Iqbal, and Vice Chairman National Development & Reform Commission (NDRC), China, Lin Nianxiu.

Under the leadership of PM Shehbaz, CPEC has emerged as the topmost national priority, said the minister, in his welcome address. The meeting was also informed that another 3,100 MW, which has achieved 90% milestone for FC (700 MW Azad Pattan HPP, 1,124 MW Kohala Hydel Project and 1,320 MW Thar Coal Block-I), will be finalised at the earliest so as to get closer to the envisaged target of 1,7000 MWs.

The projects in motorways and highways of around 888km were also highlighted to be constructed with both Chinese and local financing (another 853km under construction through local financing). The KKH-Thakot-Havelian, one of the flagship projects of this sector, has received international recognition.

Similarly, another priority project, the Karachi Circular Railway (KCR) was discussed in length, which will benefit a large segment of the population of Karachi. Both sides have also agreed to start the ML-1 project for the construction of the Karachi to Peshawar rail line link, which was considered to be the backbone of CPEC and remained neglected in the past. It was agreed to include a new area of “Water Resource Management and Climate Change” which will have great importance, especially after the recent floods which badly affected Pakistan.

Similarly, both sides agreed to explore new avenues in the mining sector and it was decided to set up a new working group to explore the sector. The Government of Pakistan has also launched an initiative to include 10,000 MWs of solar energy in the system. Pakistan requested China to create a financing window or a credit line for Chinese companies participating in this project.

Cooperation in the agriculture sector was also discussed in the meeting. The Pakistan government has made a number of new proposals, on which agreements are expected to be completed shortly which include post-disaster reconstruction, global development initiatives, strengthening of digital investment in the economy, 1+5 arrangements for SEZs, an agreement between geological survey institutions of the two countries and cooperation to develop the export potential of Pakistan.

Similarly, the framework agreement on single-window cooperation in inland trade was also proposed. Pakistan also proposed a mechanism for a new area of water resources management and climate change in the CPEC framework, considering the enhanced vulnerability of Pakistan to climate events.

Iqbal highlighted three basic objectives in the meeting which include the revival of CPEC, the inclusion of new projects to increase CPEC’s portfolio and the third was business to business cooperation, which was earlier based on government-to-government.

ML-1 railway: Pakistan, China decide to execute $10bn project

JCC decides to undertake business-to-business deals under CPEC.Pakistan assures of taking initiatives for security of Chinese.Both sides agree to expand cooperation in information technology.ISLAMABAD:...

www.geo.tv

I have no clue why a depreciating Pakistani rupee increases the dollar value of the project. I guess someone is getting paid like a bandit

 

[etylo]

Many years ago the quotes cost to construct a high speed rail line was around 15 million per KM. Due to economies of scale and chinese expertise the cost would have come down significantly. Even if its a few billion more such a project would have a far higher ROI than any other CPEC project. Connecting 70% of pak ls population of over 150+ million.

This begs the question. How are these projects being approved? Is ROI even being looked at? Are these projects being sourced via local pakistani requirements?

Sure we have seen many many pakistanis employed including key technical engineering and management positions. But are such skills and knowledge going to be indignized so in future pakistani companies can build similar projects as chinese are right now. Maybe the solution here lies in involving local pakistani companies in partnership on CPEC contracts.

I think the reason that Pakistan opted for the railway of speed around 160 km/h instead of the truly of high speed of 300 km/h or more is that Pakistani finance is not adqueate to afford the expenses at this time, and I think Pakistan originally prefers high speed rail. As far as I understand, there is some tech transfer involved in the Indonesian high speed rail China is completing now soon, so its not just selling trains and tracks etc. I dont see why cant Chinese do some technology transfer to Pakistani in the future building high speed rail here or for the 160 km/h rail now. I dont know if Japanese is doing tech trsnsfer to India becos they are usually more protective of their tech than China.

The single track Laos rail line that is 416 km long China has built recently costs 6 billion USD.
I think the double track Pakistani rail line which is 1700 km long costing 10 billion USD will be built similar to that one in Laos.

In 2014, it costs about 17 milliom to 21 million to build 1 km of high speed rail maybe for the speed of trains of 250 km/h, now the speed is 300 or more and with inflation, so the cost per unit should went up instead of down I think ?
The HK section high speef rail is built at 420 million per km, thats very expensive way up on the scale. Indonesian high speed rail line that is only 142 km in length China is completing now costs about 8 billion USD though Indonesian is a tropical country, dont know how difficult is the terrain, and there are trans of tech involved.

Following is a list of high speed rails costs for different lines in China so far in English,

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new-qq-com.translate.goog

 

[khansaheeb]

Pakistan is not simply land, it's a state of mind of independence of Muslims of South Asia

It's Islamic freedom.

 

[Luosifen]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't ML-1 intended to be both passenger and freight? 160 km/h would make it the same as the China-Laos railway, and that project was completed recently and doing excellent so far in terms of boosting trade and lowering cost of travel.

 

[khansaheeb]

Up-gradation and Dualization of ML-1 and establishment of Dry Port near Havelian | China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) Authority Official Website

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Up-Gradation And Dualization Of ML-1 And Establishment Of Dry Port Near Havelian​

Project	Up-gradation and Dualization of ML-1 and establishment of Dry Port near Havelian
Length (KM)	1733
Project Description	Up-gradation and Doubling of Main Line-1 (ML-1) from Karachi to Peshawar and Taxila to Havelian (1733 km) Laying of a new track with improved subgrade for 160 km/h Increase in Speed from 65-105 km/h to 120-160 km/h Rehabilitation and construction of major bridges Provision of Modern Signaling & Telecom Systems Conversion of Level Crossings into Underpasses/ Fly Overs Fencing of Track Establishment of Dry Port near Havelian Up-gradation of Walton Training Academy Responsibility: Proposing Agency: Ministry of Railways Implementation Agency: Pakistan Railways Supervising Agency: International Supervising Agency will be hired through competitive bidding
Location	Karachi to Peshawar via Hyderabad, Nawabshah, Rohri, Rahimyar Khan, Bahawalpur, Khanewal, Sahiwal, Lahore, Gujranwala, Rawalpindi, Peshawar
Estimated Cost (US $ Million)	6806
Financing	Work will be carried out by financing through the Chinese Government Concessional Loan (GCL).
Total Jobs Opportunities During the Construction of this Project	24000
Project Progress Update	Feasibility completed. ML-1 Project declared 'Strategic' by 6th JCC in Beijing. Framework Agreement on ML-1 signed on 15th May 2017 during PM Visit to China. Commercial Contract for Preliminary Design signed on 15th May 2017. Project will be completed in 3 packages. PC-1 approved by ECNEC on 5th August 2020. Both countries constituted Financing Committee to finalize the concessional financing agreement.

 

[nahtanbob]

The high speed rail by Japanese from Mumbai to Ahmedabad which is 500 km in length is originally costing 15 billion USD and now it balloons to 20 billion USD, and Islamabad to Karachi is almost 1200 km in length, you want the Chinese to build a high speed rail between the two cities for 10 billion USD, be realistic please.

you are comparing non-HSR project in Pakistan with HSR project in India which has not started

 

[etylo]

you are comparing non-HSR project in Pakistan with HSR project in India which has not started

Thats what he is asking for the price of high speed rails by China.