J-11B has received the AESA upgrade

[a1b2c145]

You make me feel disgusting rather than respecting

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

where exactly does it says that it's operational, the RCS detection range, etc, please Mark that part and say what is what.
I think it's info about some experimental projects which are nowhere near completion.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

J-11B has been upgraded with AESA radar (most likely the same seen on the J-15 and J-16):

This radar has 1760 T/R modules, has a search range of 450 km against 1 m^2 target and 250 km against a 0.1 m^2 target.

CCP Propaganda on the radar range,this would make it even more powerful than raptor's radar.Plz firsT gen AESA equal or more powerful to latst american AESA's?Go fool someone else.

The ridiculous radar range of 250 km vs .1m^2 indicates propaganda was hasty and ill prepared.

 

[Jungibaaz]

That detection range cannot possibly be true.

Anyway congrats to our Chinese friends on this accomplishment.

 

[gambit]

Quite unrealistic I must say about these claims.

If they have a search range of 250 km against a 0.1 m^2 target, these radar can easily achieve a radar lock on F-22 at a minimum 100km @gambit @Oscar @sancho

No. That is not how radar and RCS works.

A radar cross section (RCS) value is often called a 'fictitious' figure. Not that someone just conjure it up out of his mind. But that the RCS value actually changes in relation to distance. Some engineers do not like the word 'fictitious' because it does imply something that have no dependencies. Personally, I have no problems with it.

A body that is rated as 1 m/squared is not 1 m/squared for all distances and from all frequencies.

Take any freq...If far enough, a C-5 will have an RCS as 1 m/squared. And if close enough, the F-22 will have as high an RCS as 100 m/squared, which would be pretty much in your face, as in static airshow display distance.

So here is the uncomfortable truth: No body have a set RCS. Not the human body, not an oil tanker, not the C-5 Galaxy air transport, not the F-22 fighter, and not even a raindrop.

So let us take a look at the raindrop...

Technically speaking, the raindrop's shape is not completely spherical but more like an ogive -- somewhat flattened -- when falling through the air. But for simplistic sake, we will use the sphere.

If we apply a one meter wavelength against the raindrop, we would not see the raindrop at all. A raindrop have a spherical diameter of approximately 3-5 cm. With one meter wavelength against a body of 3-5 cm? It would not matter what distances involved, there would be so much energy against the raindrop that whatever reflected off this body would be absorbed by the rest of the wavelength's energy as it wraps around this body multiple times.

But if we apply a centimetric (cm) freq against the raindrop, preferably lower than the raindrop's theoretical spherical diameter, then the dominant return will be that 'specular' reflection from that tiny surface area of this sphere. We will see the raindrop. This is why meteorological radar specifically designed to detect hydrometeors like raindrops, snowflakes, and even fog uses the centimetric or even millimetric (mm) freqs, as in ghz...

BahrainWeather.com

The meteorological radars having characteristics best suited for atmospheric observation and investigation transmit electromagnetic pulses in the 3-10 GHz frequency range (10-3 cm wavelength, respectively). They are designed for detecting and mapping areas of precipitation, measuring their intensity and motion, and perhaps their type. Higher frequencies are used to detect smaller hydrometeors, such as cloud or even fog droplets.

The point here is that just from something as simple as a raindrop, we already have two variables that greatly affect this body's RCS value: Freq and Distance.

These two are PRIMARY dependencies. Other secondary dependencies are atmospheric losses, interference from other EM sources even as low as cosmic background radiation (CBR), or internally generated hardware noise.

Now apply this against complex bodies like the human body or bodies that are specifically designed to be 'non-cooperative', aka 'stealthy', like the F-22 and there will be all kinds of problems in trying to detect the F-22 and its brothers.

Want to detect the F-22? Try first the bi-static radar then second meters length wavelengths where transmissions are literally tens or even hundreds of meters long.

Popular media blurbs, such as Times or Newsweek or worse Rachel Maddow of MSNBC, usually do not bother to point out these somewhat esoteric bits of technical information. It is too much uncertainty for a lay public more interested in concreteness, even though each person know that there are many uncertainties in his/her own personal life. You do not have that constraint here at PDF where there are people willing to take the time to explain things in reasonably technical details without going too deep and to provide you with sources for you to verify for yourself.

 

[zzzz]

You mean the same kind of article that claimed China was interested in the Su-35, only to get denied? LOL

ITAR-TASS : Russia, China prepare contract on Su-35 supplies

PARIS, June 17 (Itar-Tass) - Russia will supply a series of new multirole fights, Su-35, to China in compliance with a contract, which should be prepared by the yearend, an official of the Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation told Itar-Tass on Monday.

Russia’s delegation takes part in the Paris Air Show, Le Bourget 2013.

“A decision to supply the Su-35 fighters to China was taken long ago. The parties work hard to coordinate financial and technical conditions of the future contract, which is due to be prepared by the yearend. At present, the details of the contract are being specified. Upcoming supplies of the Su-35 fighters to China are ‘an open secret’. It is not clear yet what none talks about it in public,” the official said.

June 17, 2013 - RT News

Russia and China are negotiating the delivery of Su-35 (Flanker-E) fighter jets, Aleksandr Mikheev, deputy director general of Russia’s state-run arms exporter Rosoboronexport said on Monday. The two countries have already signed an intergovernmental agreement on several of these new Russian 4++ generation jets, Mikheev said, as he spoke at the opening of the 2013 Paris Air Show. He did not elaborate on the number of jets to be delivered, only saying these are “technical consultations.” There is a “profound interest” in the Su-35, which is now being exhibited at the air show, Mikheev added.

 

[Akasa]

it's thought to be closer to 125–150 mi (201–240 km), which is much farther than the standard F-15's 56-mile (90 km) radar range

It is the range against 5 m2, not 1 or 0.1 m2. Huge difference.

Sorry, but that detection range seems a lot shorter than even conservative estimates of the radar. Heck, the radars on American aircraft is so powerful that it can count the number of turbine blades on an enemy engine. The F-22 is also rumored to have 2000+ T/R modules, which would make it a lot more lethal than the radars on the J-16.

where exactly does it says that it's operational, the RCS detection range, etc, please Mark that part and say what is what.
I think it's info about some experimental projects which are nowhere near completion.

All the RCS tables are in the table and the description explicity states that it can detect a 0.4 m^2 target from 280 km. By calculations that would mean a detection range of 250 km for 0.1 m^2 and 450 km for 1 m^2. And yes, the paper stated that it is in service.

ITAR-TASS : Russia, China prepare contract on Su-35 supplies

PARIS, June 17 (Itar-Tass) - Russia will supply a series of new multirole fights, Su-35, to China in compliance with a contract, which should be prepared by the yearend, an official of the Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation told Itar-Tass on Monday.

Russia’s delegation takes part in the Paris Air Show, Le Bourget 2013.

“A decision to supply the Su-35 fighters to China was taken long ago. The parties work hard to coordinate financial and technical conditions of the future contract, which is due to be prepared by the yearend. At present, the details of the contract are being specified. Upcoming supplies of the Su-35 fighters to China are ‘an open secret’. It is not clear yet what none talks about it in public,” the official said.

June 17, 2013 - RT News

Russia and China are negotiating the delivery of Su-35 (Flanker-E) fighter jets, Aleksandr Mikheev, deputy director general of Russia’s state-run arms exporter Rosoboronexport said on Monday. The two countries have already signed an intergovernmental agreement on several of these new Russian 4++ generation jets, Mikheev said, as he spoke at the opening of the 2013 Paris Air Show. He did not elaborate on the number of jets to be delivered, only saying these are “technical consultations.” There is a “profound interest” in the Su-35, which is now being exhibited at the air show, Mikheev added.

Both China and Russia denied the deal afterwards.

 

[Akasa]

CCP Propaganda on the radar range,this would make it even more powerful than raptor's radar.Plz firsT gen AESA equal or more powerful to latst american AESA's?Go fool someone else.

The ridiculous radar range of 250 km vs .1m^2 indicates propaganda was hasty and ill prepared.

"CCP propaganda" is a frequent excuse used by you guys for your lack of an argument.

 

[zzzz]

Sorry, but that detection range seems a lot shorter than even conservative estimates of the radar. Heck, the radars on American aircraft is so powerful that it can count the number of turbine blades on an enemy engine. The F-22 is also rumored to have 2000+ T/R modules, which would make it a lot more lethal than the radars on the J-16.

AN/APG-77 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is a solid-state, active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. Composed of 1500 transmit/receive modules
As yet unconfirmed sources suggest that APG-77 has a 'typical' operating range of 193 km (120 mi) and is specified to achieve an 86% probability of intercept against a 1 m2 target at its maximum detection range using a single radar paint.

Both China and Russia denied the deal afterwards.

No one denied anything. Why would Russia deny itself?

 

[Akasa]

AN/APG-77 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is a solid-state, active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. Composed of 1500 transmit/receive modules
As yet unconfirmed sources suggest that APG-77 has a 'typical' operating range of 193 km (120 mi) and is specified to achieve an 86% probability of intercept against a 1 m2 target at its maximum detection range using a single radar paint.



No one denied anything. Why would Russia deny itself?

But they denied it.

http://www.jamestown.org/programs/chinabrief/single/?tx_ttnews[/url][tt_news]=39140&cHash=645e9a11b4e4e8daa8052519a786fc4d#.UhW6IRCLHIU

Russia: No Deal on Sale of Fighters, Subs to China | Defense News | defensenews.com

 

[zzzz]

But they denied it.

http://www.jamestown.org/programs/chinabrief/single/?tx_ttnews[/url][tt_news]=39140&cHash=645e9a11b4e4e8daa8052519a786fc4d#.UhW6IRCLHIU

Russia: No Deal on Sale of Fighters, Subs to China | Defense News | defensenews.com

Mar. 25, 2013 is a day before June 17, 2013
Calendar date - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[turkish]

Its a big Propaaaaaa------ganda !!! Super going!!

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Indians with no argument so all they repeat is "its propaganda' like a bunch of headless sheep.

Yes that's certainly a great argument................................... for why Indians are the jokes of the world.

 

[Akasa]

Mar. 25, 2013 is a day before June 17, 2013
Calendar date - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just because it was reposted on a later date doesn't make it any more legitimate than a debunked claim.

 

[cirr]

Indians with no argument so all they repeat is "its propaganda' like a bunch of headless sheep.

Yes that's certainly a great argument................................... for why Indians are the jokes of the world.

These guys don't realize the extent to which they have been brainwashed by western propaganda and their own toxic media。

All their knowledge of China is through the tinted glasses and prejudices of CNN、BBC and the like，plus their own sensationalizing-prone media which represent the countries last wanting to see a strong and prosperous China。