J-10 a strategic choice for Bangladesh Air Force

[ziaulislam]

Bangladesh and India are allies. The United States does not care about the thinking of Russia and China, it is willing to sell weapons to Ukraine and Taiwan. The same is true of bangladesh and india

Yeah right

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

I vote yes !

 

[vishwambhar]

Bangladesh and India are allies. The United States does not care about the thinking of Russia and China, it is willing to sell weapons to Ukraine and Taiwan. The same is true of bangladesh and india

Yes we are strategic allies.... also most of the members here seems to believe that India will not allow Bangladesh to go for F16 but will have no problem with Bangladesh going for Typhoon which is far far superior to any F16 block..... funny thinking......

Anyways back to the topic Bangladesh will not go for J10 as China policy is unpredictable when it comes to Myanmar..... J10 doesn't give a SOLID edge over MIGS and SUKHOIS which Myanmar / India operates.... Typhoon gives that SOLID edge.....

Current trends shows they have already zeroed on Typhoon..... its really good for adversaries that BD managers are utterly lazy people when it comes to procurement....

 

[alphapak]

Those major systems are Chinese.
You are totally reliant on Chinese.

BD is balancing West/Turkey and China.

You are nearly all Chinese and so they can sanction you any time they want.

Why would China sanction Pakistan? China is investing billions into
CPEC, I think you don't know anything about Pak/China friendship.

 

[Michael Corleone]

I have a suggestion way out of left field ...

Why doesn't Bangladesh co-invest in Turkey's Hürjet?

It looks like the BAF's goal is to get a good mainstay multi-role combat aircraft. Well, with a F404/EJ200-class engine, 7 hardpoints and payload of 3,000 kg, the Hürjet has all the technical specs of a lightweight fighter.

Moreover, the Turks are developing a turn-key solution, i.e., AESA radar, AESA-based EW/ECM, next-gen HMI, air-to-air weapons, stand-off weapons, precision-guided weapons, etc. You will not have to worry about third-party weapon suppliers.

With a requirement for 8-10 squadrons, the BAF will shore up the numbers to justify local co-production, and TAI might even co-invest in that capacity (a solid capital injection in BD's aerospace industry). It could very well be your own JF-17 program, but with a a much more advanced platform as a starting point.

Interesting because turkey did invite Malaysia Pakistan and Bangladesh on developing TFX program, so far none of the three countries showed interest, Pakistan is making AZM so makes sense but Malaysia and Bangladesh should pitch into this.

I have no idea what point you trying to make?

You keep saying BD cannot afford to buy from both West and China, then when proven otherwise you talk cryptically.

This is what happens when you eat stuff you are not supposed to

Perfect Sanghi narrative. 'Made' us. LOL Hilarious.

Walked in at the last minute in December 1971 like the Kanjoosis they are to offer 'mediation'.

A country full of Kanjoos Sanghi idiots who can't even view videos on their limited data plan - so they never post them.

Come back when you grow a backbone and some balls....effeminate shrieking idiots.

My Indian friends themselves have a word for these people, baniya! XD

Lets TRY to keep this thread on topic!

Thanks!



In theory what you are suggesting is great, but from a non-tactical viewpoint.

Does Hurjet have the kinematic performance BAF will want in its backbone fighter? (light fighter class ala FA-50)

I would hope/think BAF wants something more.

Also, I highly doubt BAF can/will field 8 to 10 squadrons of anything.

It would make sense for a country like Bangladesh to have a small to medium sized force, with the goals to adopt advanced tech/tactics and focus on quality rather than quantity.

I can't ever see BAF with 8-10 frontline squadrons.

At the most 4-6 full strength I would think. (And again at least anytime soon)

If it’s economy ever reaches singapore level, I would hope

 

[The Ronin]

I think the J-10 is a little late to the show now.
It would have made sense 5 years ago but no longer.

2 squadrons of Eurofighter makes sense to face off MAF but buying six squadrons of J-10s to deter India is not sensible as it is already 2020, and the Chinese look like they will have their 5th gen J-31 ready for export by the middle part of this decade.

Buy a 4+ gen fighter from West and a 5th gen one from China for the 2020s I say.

One would still need fourth generation fighters to keep being the work horse.

FGFA while very advanced, has cost & op load limitations. The amount of armaments they carry is limited in sake of stealth & they require longer, extensive & costly maintenance.

Fourth generation aircraft requires relatively shorter time for maintenance, means fleet availability is higher.

USAF has been using F 22 Raptors for decades now but they still has the largest fleet of 4.5 gen fighters. That tells something, doesn't it?

Did you read the article properly? I suggest you read it again. It already explained a lot. Besides that i am just gonna copy-paste @Arthur vai's reply to Indos here. Even if BAF mange to get 2-3 squadrons of EFT, it will still need a cheap-cost effective single engine M-MRCA with heavy punch in large number to be the backbone of BAF.

With limited ToT to manufacture some parts and overhauling the jet locally, J-10 is perfect choice. With two prototypes so far, J-31 is still not in mass production, not proven and mature yet. So talking about any other 5th gen except F-35 currently is meaningless. BAF can think about having limited 5th gen after 2030.

How long will we have to wait to find out what BAF is gonna do?

Eternity as it seems.

JFT has western EW systems which handled most advanced EW systems pitched by India on 27th February 2019, they were able to lock M2Ks and never allowed enemy to get a lock on them inside enemy area.

They also have POD , weapons and other systems which are not Chinese but made in Pakistan now.

Calm down. BAF is not thinking about JF-17. Still some Pakistani member just keep talking about it. The target pod is Turkish, EW is European, the weapons are mostly Chinese and one American. Which one do you manufacture except the air frames? Please provide credible evidence.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)

BAF should look at being one of the launch customers for FC-31 when it starts rolling out middle of this decade.

LOL. Absolutely NOT!! That will be a suicidal decision!!

It looks like the BAF's goal is to get a good mainstay multi-role combat aircraft. Well, with a F404/EJ200-class engine, 7 hardpoints and payload of 3,000 kg, the Hürjet has all the technical specs of a lightweight fighter.

I agree with @Arulmozhi Varman. It's not a bad option if it packs punch like KAI FA-50. It can work as trainer+fighter if BAF looks for any western 5th gen fighter jet. But any US component will be a problem as Pakistan, Turkey already taught us not to trust US completely.

We are already behind schedule, so we can't wait for a jet which is not in production yet. J-10 on the other hand is best option in terms of budget and geo-politics. The jet already has 400+ air frames produced in three different block and from engine to armaments, everything manufactured in China locally.

Are you Bangladeshi? Did we even ask you to do Dalali for us? Who are you to dictate what we need or don't need??

He didn't anything bad.

You missed F-18 !

LOL. Also missed Su-35 and F-16.

 

[Bilal9]

He didn't anything bad.

Was having a bad day, Really gets my goat when Indians try to influence our narrative sometimes - but I guess I over-reacted.

 

[SD 10]

Those major systems are Chinese.
You are totally reliant on Chinese.

BD is balancing West/Turkey and China.

You are nearly all Chinese and so they can sanction you any time they want.

Son, don`t try to make a fool out of yourself.... Its between china and Pakistan, Go and eat some fish.

 

[Basel]

Did you read the article properly? I suggest you read it again. It already explained a lot. Besides that i am just gonna copy-paste @Arthur vai's reply to Indos here. Even if BAF mange to get 2-3 squadrons of EFT, it will still need a cheap-cost effective single engine M-MRCA with heavy punch in large number to be the backbone of BAF.

With limited ToT to manufacture some parts and overhauling the jet locally, J-10 is perfect choice. With two prototypes so far, J-31 is still not in mass production, not proven and mature yet. So talking about any other 5th gen except F-35 currently is meaningless. BAF can think about having limited 5th gen after 2030.



Eternity as it seems.



Calm down. BAF is not thinking about JF-17. Still some Pakistani member just keep talking about it. The target pod is Turkish, EW is European, the weapons are mostly Chinese and one American. Which one do you manufacture except the air frames? Please provide credible evidence.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)



LOL. Absolutely NOT!! That will be a suicidal decision!!



I agree with @Arulmozhi Varman. It's not a bad option if it packs punch like KAI FA-50. It can work as trainer+fighter if BAF looks for any western 5th gen fighter jet. But any US component will be a problem as Pakistan, Turkey already taught us not to trust US completely.

We are already behind schedule, so we can't wait for a jet which is not in production yet. J-10 on the other hand is best option in terms of budget and geo-politics. The jet already has 400+ air frames produced in three different block and from engine to armaments, everything manufactured in China locally.



He didn't anything bad.



LOL. Also missed Su-35 and F-16.

Ever heard of AWC and Kamra??

 

[LKJ86]

The jet already has 400+ air frames produced in three different block and from engine to armaments, everything manufactured in China locally.

Already 500+...

 

[UKBengali]

Did you read the article properly? I suggest you read it again. It already explained a lot. Besides that i am just gonna copy-paste @Arthur vai's reply to Indos here. Even if BAF mange to get 2-3 squadrons of EFT, it will still need a cheap-cost effective single engine M-MRCA with heavy punch in large number to be the backbone of BAF.

With limited ToT to manufacture some parts and overhauling the jet locally, J-10 is perfect choice. With two prototypes so far, J-31 is still not in mass production, not proven and mature yet. So talking about any other 5th gen except F-35 currently is meaningless. BAF can think about having limited 5th gen after 2030.

No I had not but everything you say has been said before.

While J-10CE would be a good choice, as it should be relatively competitive with IAF Rafales, the problem is that we are in 2020 now. 4th gen fighters first came out in the 1970s!

Why would BAF be interested in J-10CE anyway? To deter India of course. You think that even 100 J-10CEs would be much of a deterrent especially when the IAF starts equipping with some kind of 5th gen fighter in the 2030s? Of course not as 4th gen fighters lose at least 10:1 against 5th gen fighters from exercises by both USA and China.

BAF can wait to equip against IAF but to be ready to handle MAF is urgent.

Now you may say that BD can start equipping with 5th gen fighters from 2030 onwards after it has brought say Eurofighter and J-10CE this decade, but the problem with that theory is that BD is not exactly a rich country and will not be even in 10 years if the BD economy quickly bounces back from Covid-19 and continues it's fast growth trajectory. My premise is that BD can only properly afford two brand new fighter-aircraft platforms and this should be a Western-type and Chinese one to cater for both Myanmar and India.

As regards "unproven" J-31, well J-10 has also never been in any kind of war either but it has been in production for a decade and a half. J-31 is taking all this experience that China has from the domestic engine they made for FC-1 and the stealth and avionics/radar tech on the J-20 and putting it into this brand new fighter. I think it will turn out ok. BAF will not exactly buy it without thoroughly evaluating it's flight characteristics, stealth, avionics and radar.

As long as the J-31 has enough other interested parties, even better if China buys it as well, to guarantee continuing development and spares/supplies for the long-term it is pretty much a no-brainer for BD's economic and strategic situation.

Finally the induction date is of course speculation on our parts and BAF just needs to ask the Chinese to get a much better idea.

 

[Arulmozhi Varman]

Did you read the article properly? I suggest you read it again. It already explained a lot. Besides that i am just gonna copy-paste @Arthur vai's reply to Indos here. Even if BAF mange to get 2-3 squadrons of EFT, it will still need a cheap-cost effective single engine M-MRCA with heavy punch in large number to be the backbone of BAF.

With limited ToT to manufacture some parts and overhauling the jet locally, J-10 is perfect choice. With two prototypes so far, J-31 is still not in mass production, not proven and mature yet. So talking about any other 5th gen except F-35 currently is meaningless. BAF can think about having limited 5th gen after 2030.



Eternity as it seems.



Calm down. BAF is not thinking about JF-17. Still some Pakistani member just keep talking about it. The target pod is Turkish, EW is European, the weapons are mostly Chinese and one American. Which one do you manufacture except the air frames? Please provide credible evidence.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)



LOL. Absolutely NOT!! That will be a suicidal decision!!



I agree with @Arulmozhi Varman. It's not a bad option if it packs punch like KAI FA-50. It can work as trainer+fighter if BAF looks for any western 5th gen fighter jet. But any US component will be a problem as Pakistan, Turkey already taught us not to trust US completely.

We are already behind schedule, so we can't wait for a jet which is not in production yet. J-10 on the other hand is best option in terms of budget and geo-politics. The jet already has 400+ air frames produced in three different block and from engine to armaments, everything manufactured in China locally.



He didn't anything bad.



LOL. Also missed Su-35 and F-16.

Any US equipped fighters will not be a problem for Bangladesh. It does not involve itself in powerplays involving sanctions. Attacking Myanmar won't invite sanctions. It will temporarily stop arm sales as it does for almost all country. You just needs to be prepared. BD Airforce can save lots of time in having American engine. A reason why India isn't too keen to explore JV with Russian engines from the beginning for domestic engine development.

 

[RangeMaster]

Calm down. BAF is not thinking about JF-17. Still some Pakistani member just keep talking about it. The target pod is Turkish, EW is European, the weapons are mostly Chinese and one American. Which one do you manufacture except the air frames? Please provide credible evidence.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Stop talking like a drama queen and give me simple-straight answer. PAC's product list doesn't include any weapon or targeting pod.

https://www.pac.org.pk/home

PAC doesn't produce weapons. Air weapons complex is for that purpose which Basel already mentioned. These include multipurpose munitions and range extension kits.
And please don't start insulting Pakistani military industrial base cause you guys are buying few EFTs, Rafales, F18s, F16s, F35s, F22s... etc in 2070.
Behave yourself. The jets have not landed yet and you are talking as if BD has suddenly become superpower. Talking like an Indian.
Not just JF17, PAC also has a Mirage rebuild factory + PAC is certified SAAB repairer + PAC had been producing boeing parts since 2006 + PAC celebrated 50th C130 overhaul in 2017 and is making avionics for JF17 and Trainers.
You think given our economic problems and India as prime enemy we would be buying off the shelf fighters and stuff (or assembly kits) and that too in 100s as if 100s of billions of dollars are at our disposal.
I respect Bangladesh and Bangladeshi people but please don't bring Pakistan here.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/air-weapons-complex-pakistan.542796/
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paf-helps-naf-acquire-c-130h-back-into-service.652385/
https://fp.brecorder.com/2006/02/20060228392539/

 

[dbc]

No I had not but everything you say has been said before.

While J-10CE would be a good choice, as it should be relatively competitive with IAF Rafales, the problem is that we are in 2020 now. 4th gen fighters first came out in the 1970s!

Why would BAF be interested in J-10CE anyway? To deter India of course. You think that even 100 J-10CEs would be much of a deterrent especially when the IAF starts equipping with some kind of 5th gen fighter in the 2030s? Of course not as 4th gen fighters lose at least 10:1 against 5th gen fighters from exercises by both USA and China.

BAF can wait to equip against IAF but to be ready to handle MAF is urgent.

Now you may say that BD can start equipping with 5th gen fighters from 2030 onwards after it has brought say Eurofighter and J-10CE this decade, but the problem with that theory is that BD is not exactly a rich country and will not be even in 10 years if the BD economy quickly bounces back from Covid-19 and continues it's fast growth trajectory. My premise is that BD can only properly afford two brand new fighter-aircraft platforms and this should be a Western-type and Chinese one to cater for both Myanmar and India.

As regards "unproven" J-31, well J-10 has also never been in any kind of war either but it has been in production for a decade and a half. J-31 is taking all this experience that China has from the domestic engine they made for FC-1 and the stealth and avionics/radar tech on the J-20 and putting it into this brand new fighter. I think it will turn out ok. BAF will not exactly buy it without thoroughly evaluating it's flight characteristics, stealth, avionics and radar.

As long as the J-31 has enough other interested parties, even better if China buys it as well, to guarantee continuing development and spares/supplies for the long-term it is pretty much a no-brainer for BD's economic and strategic situation.

Finally the induction date is of course speculation on our parts and BAF just needs to ask the Chinese to get a much better idea.

See my earlier post, before you decided on a platform you first have to identify all the roles this platform will be required to perform. As an example, if maritime operations is one of the roles it rules out the J-10 and most single engine platforms. Frankly, If your principal threat is India I don’t see how the BAF can thwart a determined IAF assault. I spent some time thinking about how the USAF or US Navy will defend Bangladesh and the answer was always the same - my first priority is to be able to see deep into India or Myanmar, once I have all round tactical awareness I can marshal my resources more effectively. I also need a workhorse not a hanger queen, a versatile platform (with cheap smart munitions) that can generate a lot of sorties - rules out most Russian and Chinese platforms.

I think its a fascinating discussion IAF v BAF, what will it take to neutralize the geographic advantage India enjoys.

 

[notorious_eagle]

See my earlier post, before you decided on a platform you first have to identify all the roles this platform will be required to perform. As an example, if maritime operations is one of the roles it rules out the J-10 and most single engine platforms. Frankly, If your principal threat is India I don’t see how the BAF can thwart a determined IAF assault. I spent some time thinking about how the USAF or US Navy will defend Bangladesh and the answer was always the same - my first priority is to be able to see deep into India or Myanmar, once I have all round tactical awareness I can marshal my resources more effectively. I also need a workhorse not a hanger queen, a versatile platform (with cheap smart munitions) that can generate a lot of sorties - rules out most Russian and Chinese platforms.

I think its a fascinating discussion IAF v BAF, what will it take to neutralize the geographic advantage India enjoys.

Based on what i see, absolutely nothing.

There is nothing the BAF can throw at the IAF that will stop a determined attack from the IAF. BAF will not only need to induct new platforms, but it will have to train its crews and harden its tactics. There are far too many gaps that need to be filled in order for BAF to mount a credible threat to the IAF. It will take decades i believe, multiple decades for the BAF to build a force that is well trained and can operate a modern Air Force that has the capability to mount counter sorties against a juggernaut such as the IAF. For now, India has absolute dominance in Air, Land and Sea in that part of the world.

What's your opinion on the Myanmar Airforce? They seem pretty decent for a country of that size.