Israel Again Refuses to Apologize for Attack on Turkish Ship

[Jigs]

I agree. Although we need to differentiate the two events; On one hand you have an issue of cross passing of a border accidentally, which is not known from Iranian perspective, if they are PJAK or not. On the other hand you have an military operation against a known activist flotilla, whose cargo and passengers were checked before deporting port.

Well of course the circumstances were different. The end result was Turkish civilians dead. We should start to take tougher actions against our civilians being killed. It is the administrations job to protect our people at all cost. I think the AKP also needs to stop with this demanding compensation crap. We need to take care of our own people and that is not the responsibility of a state that supports the action of killing them.

In fact if more Turkish aid workers are killed on the trip this year i am going to blame the AKP for letting it happen. They may be OK with sending Turkish aid workers to their deaths then protesting it but i am not and i can guarantee you the families of the dead feel the same way.

This is the other side many miss when looking at the overall picture.

 

[somebozo]

Israeli Justice

 

[500]

I agree. Although we need to differentiate the two events; On one hand you have an issue of cross passing of a border accidentally, which is not known from Iranian perspective, if they are PJAK or not. On the other hand you have an military operation against a known activist flotilla, whose cargo and passengers were checked before deporting port.

Fifference is that Iranian soldiers were not attacked by metal rods and knives. Here Lebanese farmers often cross border accidently, IDF never shot them. Last time it was old woman:

Well of course the circumstances were different. The end result was Turkish civilians dead. We should start to take tougher actions against our civilians being killed. It is the administrations job to protect our people at all cost. I think the AKP also needs to stop with this demanding compensation crap. We need to take care of our own people and that is not the responsibility of a state that supports the action of killing them.

I would not oppose compensations and apologise if relationshis really were restoring to normal. Problem is that even if Israel meets all demands it wont change anything in Turkey Israel relationships while Erdogan is at power. Relationships went down to freezing point even before the flotilla.

In in 90-es there was very tight military cooperation with plenty contracts, in second part of 2000-s there was only one contract: Heron drones and even it was signided because there were simply no other options. Joint exercises ended after Gaza war. In same time Erdogan started Ahmadinejad style verbal attacks against Israel, tourism from Israel to Turkey began to drop.

Ironically trade keeps growing even after flotilla. Last year it was 30% growth.

 

[BackStabber]

Why would any Turkish citizen cooperate with Israeli commando ?

Why shouldnt they? Are they from Mars or angels? When in Rome, do as you are told to do.

 

[BackStabber]

Cooperation is kinda odd in a situation where IDF soldier draws its weapon and shoots you in the back of your head in point-blank range. 5 of the activists on the board reported to be killed exactly like that. You can also find the report in UNHRC findings.

Well if you behave and dont start attacking with rods and chains and knives then you wont get shot like that.

 

[BackStabber]

Also, shooting in point-blank range in the back of the head is a clear indication of execution. You can't attack someone who is behind your back.

How do you know that they start shooting at point blank range first and then the rowdy people on the crew started attacking? I still wonder what sort of rowdy people were there on the ship. I wonder if their intention was to give aid or something else.

 

[BackStabber]

Perhaps all my Turkish brothers and sisters here could write a simple letter demanding serious action from their government instead of the current circus that they are engaged in, instead of discussing the issue with this bad excuse for a lizzard 500...

What will happen with such letters? How many you have written to your government?

 

[BackStabber]

Generic "You're Anti-Semite" propaganda. I mean come on, you are a citizen of a state, act responsible. From Lieberman to right-wing extreme of Israel always accuse Turkey (recently Erdogan and Davutoglu) as liars and that Turkey should be the one that should "apologize". It's a known fact that Erdogan is keen to show his sensibilities publicly, but it's also known that he's a pragmatist. Having a foreign minister like Lieberman, who seems to only do his job just to secure or upgrade his position in the next elections, I have no doubt this problem is gonna be a heated issue in near to mid-future.

Erdogan is a shameless liar. See what he did to get some political millage. He said he will accompany the next flotilla to palestine and the whole PDF started praising him. Now I am still waiting, where is erdogan? Does he take so long to pack his briefcase? Liar liar

 

[BackStabber]

[/COLOR]

you cant compare the two senarios......

in the first senario, while the human rights activists are openly calling for peace, israelis confront and brutally kill many of them unarmed people, take rest hostage and the ship in palestinian waters/international waters which included the international journalist including some pakistani journalists, where israel doesnt have rights to respond...

in another senario, a turk did illegally crossed the line, but still i find iranians action to be condemned

Yeah yeah both are diff scenario as Iran is a Islamic country ( so has a moral high ground) and Israel is Jewish.

Common which peace loving human right activists start attacking with knives and steel rods like road side rowdies.

 

[BackStabber]

Not an expert of post-mortem examination, but even someone who watched one episode of CSI can figure out that forensic evidence can be found if a weapon fired in a close range. And this happened to 5 people on the board. Not so coincidental I would say.

About UNHRC.. It's true that not all the countries have democratic applications in their respective countries, although fact finding group didn't have anyone who were from those countries. Biased? Sure, everything is biased when you made your mind about it.

If i start firing in a crowded place it may hit someone point blank. you CSI educated specialist

 

[BackStabber]

Yes, an arm conflict with Israel, that is a wise idea you giving to Turks....

That would be suicidal for turks. Its no more ottomans era.

 

[Cerian]

Erdogan is a shameless liar. See what he did to get some political millage. He said he will accompany the next flotilla to palestine and the whole PDF started praising him. Now I am still waiting, where is erdogan? Does he take so long to pack his briefcase? Liar liar

No such a thing was said by Erdogan. Get your facts checked asap.

If i start firing in a crowded place it may hit someone point blank. you CSI educated specialist

I knew you would turn "CSI" thing into an unintelligent argument. It's not a firecracker, you have to aim precisely to shoot someone from its hand,legs then head. Ballistics showed that 5 of the deaths were caused by close range firing in an execution behaviour.

How do you know that they start shooting at point blank range first and then the rowdy people on the crew started attacking? I still wonder what sort of rowdy people were there on the ship. I wonder if their intention was to give aid or something else.

Well if you behave and dont start attacking with rods and chains and knives then you wont get shot like that.

In June 1st. Netanyahu claimed everyone on flotilla were terrorists and IDF responded in a defensive manner to those extremists militants. Yours and his PoVs perfectly match, interestingly...

 

[Cerian]

Well of course the circumstances were different. The end result was Turkish civilians dead. We should start to take tougher actions against our civilians being killed. It is the administrations job to protect our people at all cost. I think the AKP also needs to stop with this demanding compensation crap. We need to take care of our own people and that is not the responsibility of a state that supports the action of killing them.

In fact if more Turkish aid workers are killed on the trip this year i am going to blame the AKP for letting it happen. They may be OK with sending Turkish aid workers to their deaths then protesting it but i am not and i can guarantee you the families of the dead feel the same way.

This is the other side many miss when looking at the overall picture.

I totally agree with you. But what I wanted to stress out was that these two situations need a distinct approach on response per case to case.

 

[Cerian]

Fifference is that Iranian soldiers were not attacked by metal rods and knives. Here Lebanese farmers often cross border accidently, IDF never shot them.

So, It's ok not shoot someone who crosses from Lebanon, which Israel had a war few years back with Hezbollah, but if it's from Gaza you have to shoot anyone who cross-passes cos It might be a Hamas militant, right? That's almost a routine activity in Gaza border.

 

[BackStabber]

No such a thing was said by Erdogan. Get your facts checked asap.

Well if he did not say anysuch things then there are a lot of fools in PDF who were jumping and creating many threads for erdogan here
One of them is a very well known thinktank