Islamic State Are They Muslims??

[SQ8]

Thats because Isis wasn't there when the 5 pillars were conceived.

Which apply to

No I'm not, you don't understand concept of disbelief. It's about denying God or associating partners with him. Being in a battlefield or part of militia doesn't strip you of being Muslim. Unless of course you have disbelief in your heart which only God can know. You could be a misguided Muslim or commit major sins, but even then it's not likely it will make you a disbeliever. I think we are all familiar here with the story of the criminal who asked the Prophet(SAW) what he needs to do to repent. And he made a journey to the Kaaba in which he died almost half way point. So when the angel of death went to take his soul, God asked him if he reached half way point. Angel responded no. So God shifted the sand or something along those lines and accepted his repentance and we know that this man will end up in Paradise even though he killed dozens. Because his repentance is sincere.

So essentially, you are saying that a Hadiath contradicts the Quran in its declaring that whosoever kills a Human being has in fact slayed all of Humanity?
Agreed that the final judgement is and will always remain with Allah.. but then what you try to infer by quoting that Hadiath is that a rapist should be freed because at some point they might repent.

@Oscar wtf is this ? where did you get your education ? no wonder you guys are seriously misguided

On the internet off course.

 

[Falcon29]

@Oscar wtf is this ? where did you get your education ? no wonder you guys are seriously misguided

It's hadith of one of the converts to Islam at time of the Prophet(SAW), what are you confused about?

So essentially, you are saying that a Hadiath contradicts the Quran in its declaring that whosoever kills a Human being has in fact slayed all of Humanity?
Agreed that the final judgement is and will always remain with Allah.. but then what you try to infer by quoting that Hadiath is that a rapist should be freed because at some point they might repent.
.

The hadith was to demonstrate magnitude of of Allah's mercy. I was using it as example to explain to BDForever that being involved in war doesn't render you non-Muslim. Now the case of the hadith was not poltiically motivated but rather poor person who killed for wealth. As far as being Muslim, I stated that the concept of Kufr is moreso based of Shirk/Association of partners to God. If it was more than that than all of us are disbelievers and have no chance in afterlife. The Prophet(SAW) will intercede for Muslims in hellfire even if they all knew was the declaration faith. You can still be a Muslim but be in hellfire. I believe that's where BD's confusion is. Some ISIS members may go to hell yet still be Muslim. Hellfire is intended to cleanse us from crimes/sins we committed.

We are not in disagreement that ISIS's platform is transgressed from Islam.

On the internet off course.

That's a false assumption you made. Anyways feel free to educate us. But BD is definitely not the guy to do so.

 

[BDforever]

It's hadith of one of the converts to Islam at time of the Prophet(SAW), what are you confused about?

I am eager to hear the story of Prophet (SAW) when he slaughtered innocent and took stole their belongs, tell me

That's a false assumption you made. Anyways feel free to educate us. But BD is definitely not the guy to do so.

arab supremacy strikes again ? lol

 

[Falcon29]

I am eager to hear the story of Prophet (SAW) when he slaughtered innocent and took stole their belongs, tell me

It's hadith of one of the converts to Islam at time of the Prophet(SAW), what are you confused about?

 

[BDforever]

?

you did not answer my question, i asked you direct question, tell me the story

 

[Daneshmand]

Which they are not prepared to. So essentially, ISIS(and essentially all extremist ideals) need to be defeated as an ideology by being defeated by the people they preach so much against. I dare say it, but essentially only a massive can of whupping from the west and Israel will end off this madness once and for all.

Because 80%.. not 10,20,50.. 80% of the population of Muslims from
Afghanistan
Albania
Algeria
Andorra
Angola
Antigua and Barbuda
Argentina
Armenia
Aruba
Australia
Austria
Azerbaijan
Bahamas, The
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Barbados
...
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Botswana
Brazil
Brunei ...

Cambodia
Cameroon
Canada
Cape Verde
Central African Republic
Chad
...
Congo, Democratic Republic of the
Congo, Republic of the
Costa Rica
...
Egypt
El Salvador
Equatorial Guinea
....
Haiti
Holy See
Honduras
Hong Kong
Hungary

Top of Page

Iceland
India
Indonesia
Iran
......

Jamaica
Japan
Jordan

.......

Oman



Top of Page

Pakistan
Palau
Palestinian Territories
Panama
Papua New Guinea
Paraguay
Peru
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
.....
Qatar
....
Sint Maarten
Slovakia
Slovenia
Solomon Islands
Somalia
...
Turkey
Turkmenistan
Tuvalu
Uganda
Ukraine
United Arab Emirates
United Kingdom
Uruguay
Uzbekistan
Vanuatu
Venezuela
Vietnam
Yemen
Zambia
& Zimbabwe

Do not have the will(military or idealogical) to fully oppose them in their current held turf in Iraq,Syria and Libya or even in their homes.

They cannot and will not fight ISIS because somewhere in their minds they are still not convinced that ISIS is bad.

You are asking the wrong question. They are being fought and I can assure you that way and way more than 80% of Iranians are supporting that fight. While under the most draconian sanctions in human history (as per the saying of president of United States), Iranians spared money and blood to fight this battle. Both militarily and ideologically.

But it does not matter, as I said, you are asking the wrong question.

The right question to be asked is, what happens inside the mind of a Muslim kid in Britain or France or Syria or Kuwait that it becomes rewarding for him or her to become so vile?

What happens inside the mind of a Pakistani who goes and blows up a market?

You can not fight this by killing your way out of it.

Unless you can not find answers to right kind of questions, there will be no progress.

Another right question that could be asked is, what is the root cause of all this craziness in our history? What happened in our history that led to us having these many crazies?

I doubt even you know it. You see emotionalism hardly helps when confronted with reality.

 

[I.R.A]

Yes they are Muslims, but do they act as one is a different story, each and every tiny detail about them would make a normal Muslim think "what the hell........................" and no matter how much I wish or anyone else wishes we cannot decide heaven or hell for them, not our jurisdiction to decide.

 

[Indos]

If we go into Islamic History of Islam so ISIS can be defined as Khawarij, a group of people who say that they can kill other Muslim that according to them has violated Islam, even killing them in a Mosque during praying is justifiable according to them.

They have killed our Fourth Caliph, Ali Bin Abi Thalib during his Fajr Pray at the Mosque. And Today we have seen many of this group killed Muslim during their pray in the Mosque. In Pakistan and Middle East they attacked Shiah, and in Indonesia they bomb a Police mosque (Sunni people) during praying time.

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Talking about punishment in Islam

Quran, Al-Insan verse 8

"And they give food in spite of love for it to the needy, the orphan, and the captive",

In Islam we urge to be kind and just even to our enemy and if we have to kill for justice, so it should be done in the fastest way, it means hanging and other barbaric punishment are forbidden in Islam since there is no hanging punishment found in Quran and Hadith.

 

[Falcon29]

arab supremacy strikes again ? lol

@waz @WebMaster

Not sure what triggered this.

you did not answer my question, i asked you direct question, tell me the story

No, you falsely attributed the case to the Prophet when it is clearly mentioned it was an a local who converted to Islam.

The Man That Killed 99 People | Fiqhul Hadith

Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: Prophet of Allah (sallallahu alayhi wassallam) said:

“There was a man from among a nation before you who killed ninety-nine people and then made an inquiry about the most learned person on the earth. He was directed to a monk. He came to him and told him that he had killed ninety-nine people and asked him if there was any chance for his repentance to be accepted. He replied in the negative and the man killed him also completing one hundred.

He then asked about the most learned man in the earth. He was directed to a scholar. He told him that he had killed one hundred people and asked him if there was any chance for his repentance to be accepted. He replied in the affirmative and asked, `Who stands between you and repentance? Go to such and such land; there (you will find) people devoted to prayer and worship of Allah, join them in worship, and do not come back to your land because it is an evil place.’

So he went away and hardly had he covered half the distance when death overtook him; and there was a dispute between the angels of mercy and the angels of torment. The angels of mercy pleaded, ‘This man has come with a repenting heart to Allah,’ and the angels of punishment argued, ‘He never did a virtuous deed in his life.’ Then there appeared another angel in the form of a human being and the contending angels agreed to make him arbiter between them. He said, `Measure the distance between the two lands. He will be considered belonging to the land to which he is nearer.’ They measured and found him closer to the land (land of piety) where he intended to go, and so the angels of mercy collected his soul”. [Al Bukhari and Muslim]

.....................

 

[SQ8]

As far as being Muslim, I stated that the concept of Kufr is moreso based of Shirk/Association of partners to God. .

So in other words. A murderous rapist who prays 5 times a day and believes that he is right should not be tackled?
Because Kufr having its roots in belief, has throughout the Quran been linked to deeds as well. So whilst declaring one Kafir may be questionable, opposing someone for misdeeds, for hatred and for general bloodlust is not. Because not only does the Hadiath you quoted contradict EVERYTHING in the Quran regarding acceptable human behaviour; it also contradicts everything the prophet laid by his example. So either the Hadiath is misquoted or misrepresented.. or is weak; or you are implying that the prophet contradicted the Quran(Astaghfirullah).

 

[BDforever]

are you telling me that he killed innocent people, unarmed people ? are you tell me that he killed people whoever disbelieved in Allah ?

Yes, he killed innocent people to steal their belongings. Are you not familiar with this story?

look up, got busted ?

No, you falsely attributed the case to the Prophet when it is clearly mentioned it was an a local who converted to Islam.

 

[SQ8]

@waz @WebMaster

Not sure what triggered this.




No, you falsely attributed the case to the Prophet when it is clearly mentioned it was an a local who converted to Islam.

The Man That Killed 99 People | Fiqhul Hadith

Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: Prophet of Allah (sallallahu alayhi wassallam) said:

“There was a man from among a nation before you who killed ninety-nine people and then made an inquiry about the most learned person on the earth. He was directed to a monk. He came to him and told him that he had killed ninety-nine people and asked him if there was any chance for his repentance to be accepted. He replied in the negative and the man killed him also completing one hundred.

He then asked about the most learned man in the earth. He was directed to a scholar. He told him that he had killed one hundred people and asked him if there was any chance for his repentance to be accepted. He replied in the affirmative and asked, `Who stands between you and repentance? Go to such and such land; there (you will find) people devoted to prayer and worship of Allah, join them in worship, and do not come back to your land because it is an evil place.’

So he went away and hardly had he covered half the distance when death overtook him; and there was a dispute between the angels of mercy and the angels of torment. The angels of mercy pleaded, ‘This man has come with a repenting heart to Allah,’ and the angels of punishment argued, ‘He never did a virtuous deed in his life.’ Then there appeared another angel in the form of a human being and the contending angels agreed to make him arbiter between them. He said, `Measure the distance between the two lands. He will be considered belonging to the land to which he is nearer.’ They measured and found him closer to the land (land of piety) where he intended to go, and so the angels of mercy collected his soul”. [Al Bukhari and Muslim]

.....................

And previously , you misquoted this Hadiath. At no point does it fit the narrative of the subject in Question. Hence my point of using the internet.
This subject refers to someone in repentance, I doubt many in ISIS are looking for it. Those that are might return, but at the same time it refers to the measure of the man's efforts as a metaphor for his repentance.

If a former ISIS fighter serves time, or is given the punishment for his deeds here on earth.. he has made an effort.
That does not imply that all ISIS fighters are possible repentees despite making no efforts.

 

[BDforever]

@waz @WebMaster

Not sure what triggered this.




\

calling after saying this ?

That's a false assumption you made. Anyways feel free to educate us. But BD is definitely not the guy to do so.

 

[SQ8]

You are asking the wrong question. They are being fought and I can assure you that way and way more than 80% of Iranians are supporting that fight. While under the most draconian sanctions in human history (as per the saying of president of United States), Iranians spared money and blood to fight this battle. Both militarily and ideologically.

But it does not matter, as I said, you are asking the wrong question.

The right question to be asked is, what happens inside the mind of a Muslim kid in Britain or France or Syria or Kuwait that it becomes rewarding for him or her to become so vile?

What happens inside the mind of a Pakistani who goes and blows up a market?

You can not fight this by killing your way out of it.

Unless you can not find answers to right kind of questions, there will be no progress.

Another right question that could be asked is, what is the root cause of all this craziness in our history? What happened in our history that led to us having these many crazies?

I doubt even you know it. You see emotionalism hardly helps when confronted with reality.

I disagree completely with the red.
The Iranians are not at all fighting ISIS. They are fighting elements that do not represent their interest in Iraq and Syria for which monetary input even in the most desperate of times is needed.. They have their own militias who have committed similar brutalities as ISIS did. What makes them so different or noble I may ask?

The question that you posed further is the one I refer to in the first place. Please see where I said 80% of Muslims.. NOT Iranians, Jordanians or Zambians. What is it that goes in the mind of Muslims.. not Sunni, Shia or some other messed up sectarian ideal.. that causes them to doubt a mad idea or the opposition of that mad idea with another mad idea.. as long as the mad idea has Islam mentioned in it?

 

[Indos]

We have United Nations and Christians people dont make a war with us

That dumb Khawarij see Quran verse about war but they dont see the context and other verses

Quran

Surah At Taubah (60)

You also don't fight, if the enemy wants a peace treaty:

008.061 But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards
peace, and trust in God: for He is One that hears and knows (all things).

God Almighty also says in Chapter 60:

060.008 God forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith
nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God
loves those who are just.

060.009 God only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith,
and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from
turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these
circumstances), that do wrong.