Islamic Eschatology - Strategic importance!

[TMA]

From Ilford, Essex, England, UK

 

[SQ8]

Relying on Eschatology is a mistake akin to trying to invent flight by searching for a winged horse.
You don’t start with the Quran and Sunnah to make scientific advances or military strategy, you can correlate any discoveries in those independent research back into what is said and not the other way around.
Eschatology is also based on highly disputed sources questionably interpreted by those who are only “qualified”(also disputable) to interpret the Quran and Sunnah. It would make sense to have economists, political scientists and military strategists discuss them in a Delphi environment without context but to take the word of someone not familar or an expert in either is folly of the highest order.
Even the prophet requested help from experts in warfare after a commandment to fight .

 

[TMA]

Relying on Eschatology is a mistake akin to trying to invent flight by searching for a winged horse.
You don’t start with the Quran and Sunnah to make scientific advances or military strategy, you can correlate any discoveries in those independent research back into what is said and not the other way around.
Eschatology is also based on highly disputed sources questionably interpreted by those who are only “qualified”(also disputable) to interpret the Quran and Sunnah. It would make sense to have economists, political scientists and military strategists discuss them in a Delphi environment without context but to take the word of someone not familar or an expert in either is folly of the highest order.
Even the prophet requested help from experts in warfare after a commandment to fight .

If one truly believes in the Quran, and the Quran claims it explains all things then the believer ought to start his quest from there. This is not to say that one ought to just stay there and not proceed elsewhere. If one cannot find knowledge or information about his subject matter in the Quran, it does not mean that the Quran cannot explain it. One needs to find someone who has the ability to extract that knowledge from the ever flowing river that is the Quran.


Eschatology is based upon the Quran and then the Ahadith. As far as I believe the Quran is untampered with. In the Hadith literature during the times of counter revolutionary forces there has been disputations hence the grading into Authentic, good, weak and fabricated.
As to who is qualified to teach eschatology based on the Quran and Ahadith...well it would have to be one who is versed in the "Classic Orthodox" Islamic teaching as well as in "Modern Thought". If you don't like what he has to say then critique it. May I also ask what would be appropriate qualification for you?

I agree that economists and political scientists et al should discuss these matters but they should also undergo "Orthodox Islamic" training as well in order to understand the Quran and Ahadith. It will take a modern "Khizr".

Neglecting eschatology in today's world is akin to walking in the dark without a torch or light source.

 

[SQ8]

If one truly believes in the Quran, and the Quran claims it explains all things then the believer ought to start his quest from there. This is not to say that one ought to just stay there and not proceed elsewhere. If one cannot find knowledge or information about his subject matter in the Quran, it does not mean that the Quran cannot explain it. One needs to find someone who has the ability to extract that knowledge from the ever flowing river that is the Quran.


Eschatology is based upon the Quran and then the Ahadith. As far as I believe the Quran is untampered with. In the Hadith literature during the times of counter revolutionary forces there has been disputations hence the grading into Authentic, good, weak and fabricated.
As to who is qualified to teach eschatology based on the Quran and Ahadith...well it would have to be one who is versed in the "Classic Orthodox" Islamic teaching as well as in "Modern Thought". If you don't like what he has to say then critique it. May I also ask what would be appropriate qualification for you?

I agree that economists and political scientists et al should discuss these matters but they should also undergo "Orthodox Islamic" training as well in order to understand the Quran and Ahadith. It will take a modern "Khizr".

Neglecting eschatology in today's world is akin to walking in the dark without a torch or light source.

I would not like to learn to fly based on the Burraq for starters. While the Quran does discuss a lot of social matters and points to certain cosmic facts; one did not arrive at those facts from the Quran but recognized them in the Quran after the hardwork of scientists. None of the true Islamic philosophies of the “golden age” allude to relying on the Quran nor do any of the scientists of the era for their research.

As for qualification, you already mentioned how a geopolitical scientist or economist might comment on this and while they can take their expertise and apply it to eschatology- they should not at all start with it or even consider it a source for research.

The quran isnt for a specific timeframe but its analogies and its context of explaining timeless social scenarios is based upon a timeframe. The hadiath are of varying degrees and especially those regarding the end times are vague and misleading; which is why every other hopeful murdering warlord or unemployed young man gets inspired to usually kill fellow muslims.

So if the majority aren’t qualified or able to discern between dogmatic descriptions of events then they only add to the detriment which faces muslims today.

I had a shiekh too who died a year ago, He was very learned and a finance professional from the days of Hyderabad Deccan’s state bank. I learnt the tafseer from him, hadiath , seerat and other wisdom. But I did disagree with him on many historical events, on current events in the way learners do. He could see I knew more on issues where I did and would defer to me, as I did to him on Islam.
Eschatology was mentioned in reference to today’s events on and off but I prefered his idea of asking me to look into it myself as he would tell me that my generation is better placed and more informed to understand these hints than his. The same goes here, if you must study it; then do so with a clean slate and starting with the worldly knowledge before referring to what are still vague ideas.
Stick to original texts, not interpretation.

 

[TMA]

So the Scholars from a purely Dars-e-Nizaami education are limited in their ability to understand the Modern World...

 

[El Sidd]

oh no not this again

 

[TMA]

I would not like to learn to fly based on the Burraq for starters. While the Quran does discuss a lot of social matters and points to certain cosmic facts; one did not arrive at those facts from the Quran but recognized them in the Quran after the hardwork of scientists. None of the true Islamic philosophies of the “golden age” allude to relying on the Quran nor do any of the scientists of the era for their research.

As for qualification, you already mentioned how a geopolitical scientist or economist might comment on this and while they can take their expertise and apply it to eschatology- they should not at all start with it or even consider it a source for research.

The quran isnt for a specific timeframe but its analogies and its context of explaining timeless social scenarios is based upon a timeframe. The hadiath are of varying degrees and especially those regarding the end times are vague and misleading; which is why every other hopeful murdering warlord or unemployed young man gets inspired to usually kill fellow muslims.

So if the majority aren’t qualified or able to discern between dogmatic descriptions of events then they only add to the detriment which faces muslims today.

I had a shiekh too who died a year ago, He was very learned and a finance professional from the days of Hyderabad Deccan’s state bank. I learnt the tafseer from him, hadiath , seerat and other wisdom. But I did disagree with him on many historical events, on current events in the way learners do. He could see I knew more on issues where I did and would defer to me, as I did to him on Islam.
Eschatology was mentioned in reference to today’s events on and off but I prefered his idea of asking me to look into it myself as he would tell me that my generation is better placed and more informed to understand these hints than his. The same goes here, if you must study it; then do so with a clean slate and starting with the worldly knowledge before referring to what are still vague ideas.
Stick to original texts, not interpretation.

"Stick to original texts, not interpretation".

This is what Sheikh Imran has been trying to do with eschatology.

 

[El Sidd]

@TMA

can you please tell me what that Nostradamus thing is? I do not remember the name but some persian nostradamous on whose poetry these modern day isolationist and survivalists and doomsday deliverers believe in?

 

[SQ8]

"Stick to original texts, not interpretation".

This is what Sheikh Imran has been trying to do with eschatology.

Not really- the original texts really don’t have much on eschatology other than highly disputed texts regarding it. Ive seen his earlier videos as well and they are more of personal opinions than any interpretations.
Him going “soon the general in Pakistan will have to do this” or x do that is basically opinion.

Its not just him, be it Dr Asrar or others talking about Dajjal or Mahdi; all of them talked as if it is happening in ten years yet its been ten to thirty years since many of them passed away.

If eschatology was of importance than why did the prophet pray to Allah at Badr? Why was victory not foretold to him ?
The earliest accounts of him even show doubt regarding that night of revelation where he reportedly thought he is going mad and hid with Hazrat Khadija; all of it points to Islam being meant to be a human experience for all muslims. When the narrative of Hazrat Khizr is given in the Quran as relating to predestined events, the fact that Hazrat Khizr has to intervene in many things shows that fate has adjustments made throughout in real time. There too, Hazrat Musa is proven wrong and shown to be unaware of plans or things that are not of his field of expertise.

Which means that besides Allah and his word being the Quran, and his prophet’s word of which the only true undisputed and agreed upon words are the Hadees-e- Qudsi of which there are 40; the rest is not set in stone nor a concrete source of guidance.

Which whether applied to eschatology or scientific discoveries implies we discover things after the fact or facts gathered and those interpreting them are qualified in those fields to interpret them correctly.

 

[The Accountant]

Not really- the original texts really don’t have much on eschatology other than highly disputed texts regarding it. Ive seen his earlier videos as well and they are more of personal opinions than any interpretations.
Him going “soon the general in Pakistan will have to do this” or x do that is basically opinion.

Its not just him, be it Dr Asrar or others talking about Dajjal or Mahdi; all of them talked as if it is happening in ten years yet its been ten to thirty years since many of them passed away.

If eschatology was of importance than why did the prophet pray to Allah at Badr? Why was victory not foretold to him ?
The earliest accounts of him even show doubt regarding that night of revelation where he reportedly thought he is going mad and hid with Hazrat Khadija; all of it points to Islam being meant to be a human experience for all muslims. When the narrative of Hazrat Khizr is given in the Quran as relating to predestined events, the fact that Hazrat Khizr has to intervene in many things shows that fate has adjustments made throughout in real time. There too, Hazrat Musa is proven wrong and shown to be unaware of plans or things that are not of his field of expertise.

Which means that besides Allah and his word being the Quran, and his prophet’s word of which the only true undisputed and agreed upon words are the Hadees-e- Qudsi of which there are 40; the rest is not set in stone nor a concrete source of guidance.

Which whether applied to eschatology or scientific discoveries implies we discover things after the fact or facts gathered and those interpreting them are qualified in those fields to interpret them correctly.

I disagree that escatology is not important. It was not important for earlier nations but we being last day nation.

Dajjal is not present in physical form but all the signs are there ...israel is reality, in current world you cant live withoutinterest as even the paper currency we use is interest based, even our genetically modified is systematically being controlled.

Escatology is most important as without guidance from escatology israel should be our friend. The way secularisim is being promoted was never witnessed before... these are the times where loosing your imaan is the greatest risk and if we dont have guidance from escatology the risk increases mainfold ...

The goal of escatology was never about the timming or individual but the powers that individual will hold and right now all the powers are there and stage is all set for dajjal so that he can step in and control the wbole world ... but do remember before arrival of dajjal there has to be a big war in middle east in which 99 out of 100 warrirors will die and muslims are ordered not to participate in this water ... destruction of iraq, syria, yemen and afghanistan are intial skirmish of the war and ultimatleky it will result in fall of muslim countries but we still have to keep ourselves from the war

. All that was foretold in escatology ...

 

[El Sidd]

@TMA

can you please tell me what that Nostradamus thing is? I do not remember the name but some persian nostradamous on whose poetry these modern day isolationist and survivalists and doomsday deliverers believe in?

I disagree that escatology is not important. It was not important for earlier nations but we being last day nation.

Dajjal is not present in physical form but all the signs are there ...israel is reality, in current world you cant live withoutinterest as even the paper currency we use is interest based, even our genetically modified is systematically being controlled.

Escatology is most important as without guidance from escatology israel should be our friend. The way secularisim is being promoted was never witnessed before... these are the times where loosing your imaan is the greatest risk and if we dont have guidance from escatology the risk increases mainfold ...

The goal of escatology was never about the timming or individual but the powers that individual will hold and right now all the powers are there and stage is all set for dajjal so that he can step in and control the wbole world ... but do remember before arrival of dajjal there has to be a big war in middle east in which 99 out of 100 warrirors will die and muslims are ordered not to participate in this water ... destruction of iraq, syria, yemen and afghanistan are intial skirmish of the war and ultimatleky it will result in fall of muslim countries but we still have to keep ourselves from the war

. All that was foretold in escatology ...

 

[SQ8]

I disagree that escatology is not important. It was not important for earlier nations but we being last day nation.

Dajjal is not present in physical form but all the signs are there ...israel is reality, in current world you cant live withoutinterest as even the paper currency we use is interest based, even our genetically modified is systematically being controlled.

Escatology is most important as without guidance from escatology israel should be our friend. The way secularisim is being promoted was never witnessed before... these are the times where loosing your imaan is the greatest risk and if we dont have guidance from escatology the risk increases mainfold ...

The goal of escatology was never about the timming or individual but the powers that individual will hold and right now all the powers are there and stage is all set for dajjal so that he can step in and control the wbole world ... but do remember before arrival of dajjal there has to be a big war in middle east in which 99 out of 100 warrirors will die and muslims are ordered not to participate in this water ... destruction of iraq, syria, yemen and afghanistan are intial skirmish of the war and ultimatleky it will result in fall of muslim countries but we still have to keep ourselves from the war

. All that was foretold in escatology ...

Ill have to disagree as I see no other basis than conjecture and weak hypothesis for all those conclusions.

 

[The Accountant]

Ill have to disagree as I see no other basis than conjecture and weak hypothesis for all those conclusions.

These are not core believe and you are free to deny them ... however the purpose of escatology is to guide how to safe yourself from dajjal ... word dajjal means imposter, so without knowledge of escatology identifyling this imposter is next to impossible ... this is for our guidance that whenever the time we could save ourselves ...

 

[LeGenD]

These are not core believe and you are free to deny them ... however the purpose of escatology is to guide how to safe yourself from dajjal ... word dajjal means imposter, so without knowledge of escatology identifyling this imposter is next to impossible ... this is for our guidance that whenever the time we could save ourselves ...

FYI:

https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/how-1979-siege-mecca-haunts-house-saud [Mahdi factor in the siege of Holy Kaaba]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a293669d7d8f [Dabiq factor in ISIS chapter]

http://time.com/3430960/obama-isis-khorasan-terrorism/ [Khorasan factor in ISIS chapter]

What do you make of these? Perhaps some Muslims are misreading stuff and misleading others? Perhaps Dajjal will be something which we do not understand yet?

 

[TMA]

Not for “Secular Pakistan” ...