Islamic Eschatology - Strategic importance!

[padamchen]

...and the Zoroastrian Empire was established, endorsed and run waving olive branches, I'm sure.


What Zoroastrians did themselves and to others around them to establish their empire and to ascend to the throne was what else but attain power and forcefully establish their rule, often building fire temples in captured territories to promote the religion. I am sure you call it peaceful conversion.

What the Persians did to their enemies was just as gross disrespectful to their one God too.

... and so got the same in turn when they were at the receiving end but but but

... not during the time of the Great Khulafa-e-Rashideen as they were protected by the exalted Muslim Rulers as minorities after the captured Persian empire. It was only later during the Abbasids rule that the real persecution of Parsis began.



Now now now, Why do you go ahead and accuse Islam and other religions of things like folk lore and what not dear, when I have sincerely and most respectfully avoided writing that about your own and merely pointed towards your obvious lack of knowledge about Islam compared to the Zoroastrian religion.

Are you not forgetting Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds?

Getting back to our little conversation without throwing accusations; Its your POV that Other religions borrowed from yours and so it is ours that other religions may have done that instead.

I have merely pointed at the fact that the religions with the largest following around the world have their roots in the religion of Adam AS the first created human, who we believe and recognize as the first Divine sent of Islam.



It is not about the largeness dear, you are having a simple comprehension problem. It is about your claim of being 5000 years old and accusing others of copying from that.

I am talking about being as old as forever, from the time the first human was created, Adam AS, that how old are the roots of Islam and religions like Judaism and Christianity dear...not just 5000 years old, you get it now?

Again, From the POV of the followers of the largest religions, Zaraostrians may well have borrowed form the religion of Adam AS or his descendants if not competed with his followers and descendants and may be a reactionary religion if not its derivative or alternate form. That is purely a historic religious POV against the POV of Parsis.

Leaving the accusations of who borrowed from which, you should be happy with your POV as we are with ours. If not, atleast be happy that we all believe in very first human beings as in Adam and Eve AS that you call Mashya and Mashyana and anything else we may have common in our monotheistic religions. Why bicker over our beliefs when we can rejoice in what is common and keep yearning to learn, seek knowledge and keep trying to find and achieve our own salvation.

The Quran is the word of Allah, The Creator of everything, you call Him by another name. I am sure you will find more similarities in there if you do a comparative study. ( It is only a humble and sincere suggestion.)

Cheers .

I am way past bickering. And as always late in packing (Belgium).

Zoroastrianism like Hinduism (ancient Aryan faiths) believe strongly in blood.

The "conversions" you speak of were state sponsorship of a state religion in the dominions conquered. The building of libraries and Atash gahs. Not individual conversions.

Much like the Hindus with large parts of SE Asia.

That's why, when the empires ebbed, territorial control, those peoples moved to the new political dispensation and it's belief systems.

Not so the DNA core of each faith.

The Persians and the Hindus.

The chosen.

From whom Zarathustra was born.

Which is why even today if Tajiks and Uzbeks and Afghans and Azeris and Kurds and a dozen or more nationalities and people's revert to Zoroastrianism, I and other Zoroastrians would be pleased. But not overly affected.

The main and only bloodlines we care about, before the swing is complete and the Atash returns to its true home, are the Persians.

Hope that clarifies.

Peace. Ushta te.

Cheers, Doc

 

[I.R.A]

If not the details in the Sahih Hadiths and only The Quran is your sole source of information then how do you pray or perform The Hajj and bury your dead etc etc...Childish? Or Basic Facts. Lol...

Marriage:

I called your argument(s) childish because you are stuck with petty things, the things that were not introduced by Islam but have been there since start and are rituals, you don't need a person from Persian origin called Bukhari to document these rituals for you, that too after centuries of gap in between.

Like you wish to know about Marriage. It's a stupid thing to think that only Islam brought the concept of Marriage and post or pre Islam there is a halal marriage and a haram marriage. And it is even more stupid thing to believe that you need a Molvi sb. to solemnize a marriage. A father can conduct a son's nikkah. What Islam did is strengthen this concept and clearly define the prerequisites of marriage, roles and responsibilities of two willing people entering this contract. It brought protection for the women and gave them the right to fully understand their role and rights under marriage, it further went to guarantee widows and divorcees the right to remarry anyone they find suitable. Islam defined the legal age for marriage. Islam defined when it becomes a duty for a Muslim to marry more than one woman. Par bai in cheezo pay kaun dihan day ......... bajany indian ganay shadio pay aur shadi ko Molvi sb. kay khutbay say halal karnay walo ki akalay itni hoti to masla kahay ka tha.

Now will you answer me what was age of Ayesha May ALLAH be pleased with her at time of her marriage to Muhammad Peace be upon him?

Namaz:

To start with there is no word called Namaz in Quran, the right word is Salaat ....... and this word Namaz is but a narrow definition of Salaat in our culture, one aspect of greater bigger concept. Namaz in it's present form is a ritual, a symbolic act of submission, it's the beginning of a wider role and responsibility and not an end in itself. But blind followers of Bukhari sb. reduced it to something as a key to heaven. Try searching for meanings of Salaat and you would know what it stands for.... a gathering and a struggle in form of nation to implement a state system that has been given by Quran, where humans are free to think and surrender with full knowledge and will to the ALL MIGHTY ALLAH's laws. Mentioning Salaat with Zakat in Quran isn't just to rhyme the words. And then saying that Salaat stops you from acts of evil and shamelessness means to point to a law that is enforced in a society. It doesn't mean Namaz (the ritual act) stops you from all this.

Per the popular traditions, Messenger Muhammad Peace be upon him before physically travelling to heavens lead a prayer congregation at Bait ul Muqadas, without going into details of miraj and all the stories related to it, I will stick to one point only and that majority believe that Namaz was given as a gift of 5 prayers daily to Messenger when he went to heavens. But people forgot that Messenger already lead a prayer before getting this gift. Anyways lets move forward and forget that all Messengers and their righteous followers have been praying before Islam ..... lets focus on narrations that tell you how Messenger Peace be upon him got the gift of 5 prayers. The stories tell you that it was Moses who made Messenger Muhammad go again and again to ALLAH all Mighty and get the number reduced. Yani Moses knew more about followers of Muhammad then Muhammad Peace be upon himself, and Muhammad Peace be upon him needed Moses guidance, well jin kay pass thori c akal hy na wo samj jy gay kay yeh kin logo ki kahani ho skti hy kay Musa ASW ko oncha dikhaya jy. Khair forget this the biggest blunder and stupidity here is per these people ALLAH didn't know and Muhammad had to request the number of daily prayers reduced as Recommended by Moses. All this when ALLAH himself has told you many times "We don't change our sunnah and laws for anyone" ....... but who cares to look at it this way .... after all Bukhari sb. say bara siyana to ajj tak koi guzra he nai.

I have no interest in telling anyone on how to say the ritual Namaz, because Bukhari sb and the ones who did hadees service for Shiites have performed very well in dividing Muslims forever ..... on how to perform this ritual act of submission. But I do feel it pertinent to mention that Zoroastrians have the same exact number of daily prayers and same timings. They raise the arms and hands like Muslims while making Dua. And if you think that Zoroastrians borrowed these from Muslims, you have no idea about their pride and their secrecy about their religion.

Hajj:

Try sometimes reading about what Hajj really stood for. You have these blindfolds that don't let you see anything other than Bukhari. Bukhari and co reduced a great Deen like Islam to a ritualistic religion, recite this, do this and you will enter Jannah. As if it was this easy. Hajj used to be a great gathering and conference where Muslim leaders would listen to problems of their citizens, issue directives, make appointments along with performing rituals. But today well ........

Death Funeral etc:

So you think people including righteous followers of all the Messengers Peace be upon all of them, didn't die?

Chilla, Soyam, Qul wali awam ........ lathay kay safaid kapray ka business aur paaki qabro ka business karnay walo, kuch akal say kam lo. Gar may janaza para hota hy aur logo ko daigho ki fiker hoti hy ........

What stops a father or a son to lead funeral prayers of his son or father? Do you think what we say in those prayers is going to change anything .......... read about intercession in Quran, you will realise that no intercession is possible no matter what and how you perform final rites. Per your Bukhari sb. any Muslim who died somewhere away from civilisation in isolation is what? if there is no one to perform his final rites and funeral?

Lame flame baiting retorts and Reduced to asking questions instead of a factual reply already! Ch ch ch...Just proves the reason I didn't tag you in my earlier post dear.

Childish? Lol...That's what all nay sayer adolescents are left with,

I guess, when they cannot respond with any substance to basic facts; try and indulge in unnecessary details to extend arguments and confuse the readers and all the while avoid basic facts that they have no answer to.

The problem with people who have these preconceived beliefs is that if you straight away demolish what they have been believing all their lives as the truth .......... you will leave them confused, disoriented and worst astray. It takes lot of courage and mental health to understand and digest ..... gradually and slowly and then not to resort to personal attacks in defense, that's sign of insecurity.

I don't blame you for not paying attention to very valid questions I raised to our friend the accountant here, and the childish answers that I have been given.

But in any case let me inform you Bukhari collected some 700,000 plus narrations and out of those he selected on his own only 2000 plus some narrations. All collections were based on verbal sayings and accounts, nobody sanctioned this collection and neither Bukhari consulted anyone on which ones to retain and which ones to discard. And according to these narrations Quran was never in book written form, because people had started questioning these narrations when they were first introduced, so to make these narrations look more authentic in zalimo nay Quran ki haysiat pay he sawal utha diay. The person who started propagating about appearance of Imam Mehdi (during Abbasid times on their instructions) himself claimed to be Mehdi. Read about Abu Hanifa how much he relied upon these narrations.

The problem is not narrations but making them part of faith. I have quoted one narration and none of you has been able to tell me from which angle it looks like a hadees.

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Your post smells more like a rat in Islam trying to create confusions and spread disbelief among Muslims ...

Now I am sure that this guy has hidden agenda of maligning Muslim faith ... He has no basis of what he is claiming but tactfully avoiding the statements which contradict his statements. We have to be careful with these imposters as they are trying to create doubt in the mind of innocent and less educated muslims

Seriously ........... what's next I am a dajjal follower?

When I had told you that you are not ready to have this discussion with me, you should have understood.

 

[padamchen]

Marriage:

I called your argument(s) childish because you are stuck with petty things, the things that were not introduced by Islam but have been there since start and are rituals, you don't need a person from Persian origin called Bukhari to document these rituals for you, that too after centuries of gap in between.

Like you wish to know about Marriage. It's a stupid thing to think that only Islam brought the concept of Marriage and post or pre Islam there is a halal marriage and a haram marriage. And it is even more stupid thing to believe that you need a Molvi sb. to solemnize a marriage. A father can conduct a son's nikkah. What Islam did is strengthen this concept and clearly define the prerequisites of marriage, roles and responsibilities of two willing people entering this contract. It brought protection for the women and gave them the right to fully understand their role and rights under marriage, it further went to guarantee widows and divorcees the right to remarry anyone they find suitable. Islam defined the legal age for marriage. Islam defined when it becomes a duty for a Muslim to marry more than one woman. Par bai in cheezo pay kaun dihan day ......... bajany indian ganay shadio pay aur shadi ko Molvi sb. kay khutbay say halal karnay walo ki akalay itni hoti to masla kahay ka tha.

Now will you answer me what was age of Ayesha May ALLAH be pleased with her at time of her marriage to Muhammad Peace be upon him?

Namaz:

To start with there is no word called Namaz in Quran, the right word is Salaat ....... and this word Namaz is but a narrow definition of Salaat in our culture, one aspect of greater bigger concept. Namaz in it's present form is a ritual, a symbolic act of submission, it's the beginning of a wider role and responsibility and not an end in itself. But blind followers of Bukhari sb. reduced it to something as a key to heaven. Try searching for meanings of Salaat and you would know what it stands for.... a gathering and a struggle in form of nation to implement a state system that has been given by Quran, where humans are free to think and surrender with full knowledge and will to the ALL MIGHTY ALLAH's laws. Mentioning Salaat with Zakat in Quran isn't just to rhyme the words. And then saying that Salaat stops you from acts of evil and shamelessness means to point to a law that is enforced in a society. It doesn't mean Namaz (the ritual act) stops you from all this.

Per the popular traditions, Messenger Muhammad Peace be upon him before physically travelling to heavens lead a prayer congregation at Bait ul Muqadas, without going into details of miraj and all the stories related to it, I will stick to one point only and that majority believe that Namaz was given as a gift of 5 prayers daily to Messenger when he went to heavens. But people forgot that Messenger already lead a prayer before getting this gift. Anyways lets move forward and forget that all Messengers and their righteous followers have been praying before Islam ..... lets focus on narrations that tell you how Messenger Peace be upon him got the gift of 5 prayers. The stories tell you that it was Moses who made Messenger Muhammad go again and again to ALLAH all Mighty and get the number reduced. Yani Moses knew more about followers of Muhammad then Muhammad Peace be upon himself, and Muhammad Peace be upon him needed Moses guidance, well jin kay pass thori c akal hy na wo samj jy gay kay yeh kin logo ki kahani ho skti hy kay Musa ASW ko oncha dikhaya jy. Khair forget this the biggest blunder and stupidity here is per these people ALLAH didn't know and Muhammad had to request the number of daily prayers reduced as Recommended by Moses. All this when ALLAH himself has told you many times "We don't change our sunnah and laws for anyone" ....... but who cares to look at it this way .... after all Bukhari sb. say bara siyana to ajj tak koi guzra he nai.

I have no interest in telling anyone on how to say the ritual Namaz, because Bukhari sb and the ones who did hadees service for Shiites have performed very well in dividing Muslims forever ..... on how to perform this ritual act of submission. But I do feel it pertinent to mention that Zoroastrians have the same exact number of daily prayers and same timings. They raise the arms and hands like Muslims while making Dua. And if you think that Zoroastrians borrowed these from Muslims, you have no idea about their pride and their secrecy about their religion.

Hajj:

Try sometimes reading about what Hajj really stood for. You have these blindfolds that don't let you see anything other than Bukhari. Bukhari and co reduced a great Deen like Islam to a ritualistic religion, recite this, do this and you will enter Jannah. As if it was this easy. Hajj used to be a great gathering and conference where Muslim leaders would listen to problems of their citizens, issue directives, make appointments along with performing rituals. But today well ........

Death Funeral etc:

So you think people including righteous followers of all the Messengers Peace be upon all of them, didn't die?

Chilla, Soyam, Qul wali awam ........ lathay kay safaid kapray ka business aur paaki qabro ka business karnay walo, kuch akal say kam lo. Gar may janaza para hota hy aur logo ko daigho ki fiker hoti hy ........

What stops a father or a son to lead funeral prayers of his son or father? Do you think what we say in those prayers is going to change anything .......... read about intercession in Quran, you will realise that no intercession is possible no matter what and how you perform final rites. Per your Bukhari sb. any Muslim who died somewhere away from civilisation in isolation is what? if there is no one to perform his final rites and funeral?









The problem with people who have these preconceived beliefs is that if you straight away demolish what they have been believing all their lives as the truth .......... you will leave them confused, disoriented and worst astray. It takes lot of courage and mental health to understand and digest ..... gradually and slowly and then not to resort to personal attacks in defense, that's sign of insecurity.

I don't blame you for not paying attention to very valid questions I raised to our friend the accountant here, and the childish answers that I have been given.

But in any case let me inform you Bukhari collected some 700,000 plus narrations and out of those he selected on his own only 2000 plus some narrations. All collections were based on verbal sayings and accounts, nobody sanctioned this collection and neither Bukhari consulted anyone on which ones to retain and which ones to discard. And according to these narrations Quran was never in book written form, because people had started questioning these narrations when they were first introduced, so to make these narrations look more authentic in zalimo nay Quran ki haysiat pay he sawal utha diay. The person who started propagating about appearance of Imam Mehdi (during Abbasid times on their instructions) himself claimed to be Mehdi. Read about Abu Hanifa how much he relied upon these narrations.

The problem is not narrations but making them part of faith. I have quoted one narration and none of you has been able to tell me from which angle it looks like a hadees.

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Seriously ........... what's next I am a dajjal follower?

When I had told you that you are not ready to have this discussion with me, you should have understood.

Don't tear your hair now stud, but Ni'maz is what Zoroastrianism says.

It's Persian ...

You already know who holds his hands upwards like you do.

Cheers, Doc

P.S. Even your ritual sajda is ours.

I'll try to find a photo ....

Cheers, Doc

 

[I.R.A]

Don't tear your hair now stud, but Ni'maz is what Zoroastrianism says.

It's Persian ...

You already know who holds his hands upwards like you do.

Cheers, Doc

You think I don't have an idea of what my Deen is and what has been later introduced to it in guise of religion?

And this is exactly what I am trying to tell them here, all these practices that have been introduced centuries later after fall of Persian empire are questionable, should be criticised and put to test under guidance available in Quran.

See dost, your's is an older religion, I agree, there may have been a Messenger sent to your people and region with a book, they may have followed him ......... but the clash comes in when I tell you that all older religions got corrupted by man made fairy tales introduced to the divine books they were given, it was manipulation of those books themselves, that necessitated the final immutable message for the humanity everywhere. And you disagree with it. You see this was the same reason your forefathers introduced these books of narrations to Islam.

P.S. Even your ritual sajda is ours.

I'll try to find a photo ....

Prostrating Sajda is common in almost all religions, it exists in one form or another. And it has been directly mentioned in Quran.

 

[Shane]

Not so the DNA core of each faith.

The Persians and the Hindus.

The chosen.

From whom Zarathustra was born.

Which is why even today if Tajiks and Uzbeks and Afghans and Azeris and Kurds and a dozen or more nationalities and people's revert to Zoroastrianism, I and other Zoroastrians would be pleased. But not overly affected.

All Humans are the descendants of the same Adam and Eve AS that you call Masha and Mashyiana yet only the one with a particular DNA, The Persians and the Hindus the Tajiks and Uzbbeks and Afghans and Azeris and Kurds and A dozen more nationalities are THE CHOSEN ONES by what formula or decree?

You do realize that there are so many racial red flags here on so many counts that only Nazis and Ashkenazim Zionist jew can be proud of, lol.

Anyways, My congratulations to the chosen ones, all hail the Aryan Race and what not!!!

Cheers to you too.

 

[padamchen]

You think I don't have an idea of what my Deen is and what has been later introduced to it in guise of religion?

And this is exactly what I am trying to tell them here, all these practices that have been introduced centuries later after fall of Persian empire are questionable, should be criticised and put to test under guidance available in Quran.

See dost, your's is an older religion, I agree, there may have been a Messenger sent to your people and region with a book, they may have followed him ......... but the clash comes in when I tell you that all older religions got corrupted by man made fairy tales introduced to the divine books they were given, it was manipulation of those books themselves, that necessitated the final immutable message for the humanity everywhere. And you disagree with it. You see this was the same reason your forefathers introduced these books of narrations to Islam.



Prostrating Sajda is common in almost all religions, it exists in one form or another. And it has been directly mentioned in Quran.

Not full prostration. That's Hindu.

I'm talking about page parvanu which we do before the Atash.

That's what you guys do during your prayers. Both hands in front, palms down, on your knees.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Shane]

Again, only 5000 year old and claiming everyone else borrowed from the Zoroastrians, when we are talking about the first Human ever... and you don't even realize how absurd you sound, lol.

Be happy and stay blessed with what you believe and practice but dont label and accuse others while doing the very same, lol.

 

[Great Brahmin]

I am way past bickering. And as always late in packing (Belgium).

Zoroastrianism like Hinduism (ancient Aryan faiths) believe strongly in blood.

The "conversions" you speak of were state sponsorship of a state religion in the dominions conquered. The building of libraries and Atash gahs. Not individual conversions.

Much like the Hindus with large parts of SE Asia.

That's why, when the empires ebbed, territorial control, those peoples moved to the new political dispensation and it's belief systems.

Not so the DNA core of each faith.

The Persians and the Hindus.

The chosen.

From whom Zarathustra was born.

Which is why even today if Tajiks and Uzbeks and Afghans and Azeris and Kurds and a dozen or more nationalities and people's revert to Zoroastrianism, I and other Zoroastrians would be pleased. But not overly affected.

The main and only bloodlines we care about, before the swing is complete and the Atash returns to its true home, are the Persians.

Hope that clarifies.

Peace. Ushta te.

Cheers, Doc

Original Rigvedic Faith and Old Hinduism was true on blood.

New one is modular with every Tom dick claiming to be Guru or Sadhu/Swami from all races around the world.

As a Rigvedic Brahmin I consider hinduisH as a currepted new religion as they put more importance on Idol worship (banned in rv), Avatars(banned in rv), new million God's(only one God Indra in rv), Gita as main book(blasphemy--harasy as rv is the Dharma).

You can see in the slcase of Ganesh chaturthi, I was horrified by seeing how much Idol worship Hindus do now days.

Agni is almost forgotten.

 

[padamchen]

Original Rigvedic Faith and Old Hinduism was true on blood.

New one is modular with every Tom dick claiming to be Guru or Sadhu/Swami from all races around the world.

As a Rigvedic Brahmin I consider hinduisH as a currepted new religion as they put more importance on Idol worship (banned in rv), Avatars(banned in rv), new million God's(only one God Indra in rv), Gita as main book(blasphemy--harasy as rv is the Dharma).

You can see in the slcase of Ganesh chaturthi, I was horrified by seeing how much Idol worship Hindus do now days.

Agni is almost forgotten.

That's because Agni is an Ahura (your Asura).

He was lured over by Indra.

We've had this discussion at the other place. Here it would be bouncers for most ...

Cheers, Doc

You think I don't have an idea of what my Deen is and what has been later introduced to it in guise of religion?

And this is exactly what I am trying to tell them here, all these practices that have been introduced centuries later after fall of Persian empire are questionable, should be criticised and put to test under guidance available in Quran.

See dost, your's is an older religion, I agree, there may have been a Messenger sent to your people and region with a book, they may have followed him ......... but the clash comes in when I tell you that all older religions got corrupted by man made fairy tales introduced to the divine books they were given, it was manipulation of those books themselves, that necessitated the final immutable message for the humanity everywhere. And you disagree with it. You see this was the same reason your forefathers introduced these books of narrations to Islam.



Prostrating Sajda is common in almost all religions, it exists in one form or another. And it has been directly mentioned in Quran.

Am not questioning your version of the Quran. Just one point for you to ponder I ....

Both the Old and the New Testament mention the Magii (Zoroastrian priests).

No mention of Zarathustra or the Magii or anything remotely Persian in the Quran.

It makes me very skeptical.

Being honest. Not flaming.

Cheers, Doc

 

[The Accountant]

Its hilarious, really stupid of you...

While you are asking @Shane to read about Salat, Hajj and other concepts in Islam you failed to mention from where to read? Where did you get the definition of salat? It is not in Quran in the way you are describing it ... The marriage is there in Quran but how to formally do marriage what are detailed rights of husband and wife (other than those mentioned in Quran) are nowhere but in hadith>>> So if we exclude Sahih hadith then what are your basis? Did you received some divine revelations or you are a prophet whose words are to be accepted ...

This is insane of you that while you reject all the flobally accepted and well known islamic books you failled to mention the source of your belief as the same is not available in Quran ...

You are a pathetic being trying to misguide muslims ...

Marriage:

I called your argument(s) childish because you are stuck with petty things, the things that were not introduced by Islam but have been there since start and are rituals, you don't need a person from Persian origin called Bukhari to document these rituals for you, that too after centuries of gap in between.

Like you wish to know about Marriage. It's a stupid thing to think that only Islam brought the concept of Marriage and post or pre Islam there is a halal marriage and a haram marriage. And it is even more stupid thing to believe that you need a Molvi sb. to solemnize a marriage. A father can conduct a son's nikkah. What Islam did is strengthen this concept and clearly define the prerequisites of marriage, roles and responsibilities of two willing people entering this contract. It brought protection for the women and gave them the right to fully understand their role and rights under marriage, it further went to guarantee widows and divorcees the right to remarry anyone they find suitable. Islam defined the legal age for marriage. Islam defined when it becomes a duty for a Muslim to marry more than one woman. Par bai in cheezo pay kaun dihan day ......... bajany indian ganay shadio pay aur shadi ko Molvi sb. kay khutbay say halal karnay walo ki akalay itni hoti to masla kahay ka tha.

Now will you answer me what was age of Ayesha May ALLAH be pleased with her at time of her marriage to Muhammad Peace be upon him?

Namaz:

To start with there is no word called Namaz in Quran, the right word is Salaat ....... and this word Namaz is but a narrow definition of Salaat in our culture, one aspect of greater bigger concept. Namaz in it's present form is a ritual, a symbolic act of submission, it's the beginning of a wider role and responsibility and not an end in itself. But blind followers of Bukhari sb. reduced it to something as a key to heaven. Try searching for meanings of Salaat and you would know what it stands for.... a gathering and a struggle in form of nation to implement a state system that has been given by Quran, where humans are free to think and surrender with full knowledge and will to the ALL MIGHTY ALLAH's laws. Mentioning Salaat with Zakat in Quran isn't just to rhyme the words. And then saying that Salaat stops you from acts of evil and shamelessness means to point to a law that is enforced in a society. It doesn't mean Namaz (the ritual act) stops you from all this.

Per the popular traditions, Messenger Muhammad Peace be upon him before physically travelling to heavens lead a prayer congregation at Bait ul Muqadas, without going into details of miraj and all the stories related to it, I will stick to one point only and that majority believe that Namaz was given as a gift of 5 prayers daily to Messenger when he went to heavens. But people forgot that Messenger already lead a prayer before getting this gift. Anyways lets move forward and forget that all Messengers and their righteous followers have been praying before Islam ..... lets focus on narrations that tell you how Messenger Peace be upon him got the gift of 5 prayers. The stories tell you that it was Moses who made Messenger Muhammad go again and again to ALLAH all Mighty and get the number reduced. Yani Moses knew more about followers of Muhammad then Muhammad Peace be upon himself, and Muhammad Peace be upon him needed Moses guidance, well jin kay pass thori c akal hy na wo samj jy gay kay yeh kin logo ki kahani ho skti hy kay Musa ASW ko oncha dikhaya jy. Khair forget this the biggest blunder and stupidity here is per these people ALLAH didn't know and Muhammad had to request the number of daily prayers reduced as Recommended by Moses. All this when ALLAH himself has told you many times "We don't change our sunnah and laws for anyone" ....... but who cares to look at it this way .... after all Bukhari sb. say bara siyana to ajj tak koi guzra he nai.

I have no interest in telling anyone on how to say the ritual Namaz, because Bukhari sb and the ones who did hadees service for Shiites have performed very well in dividing Muslims forever ..... on how to perform this ritual act of submission. But I do feel it pertinent to mention that Zoroastrians have the same exact number of daily prayers and same timings. They raise the arms and hands like Muslims while making Dua. And if you think that Zoroastrians borrowed these from Muslims, you have no idea about their pride and their secrecy about their religion.

Hajj:

Try sometimes reading about what Hajj really stood for. You have these blindfolds that don't let you see anything other than Bukhari. Bukhari and co reduced a great Deen like Islam to a ritualistic religion, recite this, do this and you will enter Jannah. As if it was this easy. Hajj used to be a great gathering and conference where Muslim leaders would listen to problems of their citizens, issue directives, make appointments along with performing rituals. But today well ........

Death Funeral etc:

So you think people including righteous followers of all the Messengers Peace be upon all of them, didn't die?

Chilla, Soyam, Qul wali awam ........ lathay kay safaid kapray ka business aur paaki qabro ka business karnay walo, kuch akal say kam lo. Gar may janaza para hota hy aur logo ko daigho ki fiker hoti hy ........

What stops a father or a son to lead funeral prayers of his son or father? Do you think what we say in those prayers is going to change anything .......... read about intercession in Quran, you will realise that no intercession is possible no matter what and how you perform final rites. Per your Bukhari sb. any Muslim who died somewhere away from civilisation in isolation is what? if there is no one to perform his final rites and funeral?









The problem with people who have these preconceived beliefs is that if you straight away demolish what they have been believing all their lives as the truth .......... you will leave them confused, disoriented and worst astray. It takes lot of courage and mental health to understand and digest ..... gradually and slowly and then not to resort to personal attacks in defense, that's sign of insecurity.

I don't blame you for not paying attention to very valid questions I raised to our friend the accountant here, and the childish answers that I have been given.

But in any case let me inform you Bukhari collected some 700,000 plus narrations and out of those he selected on his own only 2000 plus some narrations. All collections were based on verbal sayings and accounts, nobody sanctioned this collection and neither Bukhari consulted anyone on which ones to retain and which ones to discard. And according to these narrations Quran was never in book written form, because people had started questioning these narrations when they were first introduced, so to make these narrations look more authentic in zalimo nay Quran ki haysiat pay he sawal utha diay. The person who started propagating about appearance of Imam Mehdi (during Abbasid times on their instructions) himself claimed to be Mehdi. Read about Abu Hanifa how much he relied upon these narrations.

The problem is not narrations but making them part of faith. I have quoted one narration and none of you has been able to tell me from which angle it looks like a hadees.

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Seriously ........... what's next I am a dajjal follower?

When I had told you that you are not ready to have this discussion with me, you should have understood.

 

[Shane]

What stops a father or a son to lead funeral prayers of his son or father? Do you think what we say in those prayers is going to change anything

The absurdities in your post are so many and insane on many more to such and extent that it is not even worth my time to tell you the right from wrong. It is a journey everyone must partake on their own when at such adolescent stage of knowledge. I hope you succeed in your endeavors to attain what you seek.

What are you smoking dear, I called praying as Salah in my post too lol and mentioned Namaz additionally for your understanding, lol.

...and another thing... I prayed the funeral of my Grandmother and did the imamat myself not too long ago dear, good luck figuring out who you are accusing of what.

I am talking about Sahih Ahadith that tell us how and what our Prophet recited in Salah and performed Hajj and burried our dead the Masnoon Islamic way of the Prophet and how he lived his life. If you dont believe in that then good luck and stay blessed in whatever else you follow but The Quran and Sahih Hadiths of the Prophet SAW.

Adios Amigo!

 

[I.R.A]

Not full prostration. That's Hindu.

I'm talking about page parvanu which we do before the Atash.

That's what you guys do during your prayers. Both hands in front, palms down, on your knees.

Cheers, Doc

That's called Rukooh. That too is mentioned in Quran.

 

[The Accountant]

That's called Rukooh. That too is mentioned in Quran.

And how you know that is rukoo in Quran and not something else,,, Were you there to check that Prophet SAW used to do rukoo this way ? And if there is a person who told you this position was an Arab ?

 

[padamchen]

That's called Rukooh. That too is mentioned in Quran.

Not this. This man is standing.

I meant kneeling.

Cheers, Doc

 

[I.R.A]

Am not questioning your version of the Quran. Just one point for you to ponder I ....

Both the Old and the New Testament mention the Magii (Zoroastrian priests).

No mention of Zarathustra or the Magii or anything remotely Persian in the Quran.

It makes me very skeptical.

Being honest. Not flaming.

Cheers, Doc

Priesthood in whatever form and religion is prohibited in Quran. Priests, Capitalists, Kings they are warned, for they hold influence over common people and don't let them exercise their free thinking and will.

I didn't get your question I guess, are you looking for a mention of anything related to Zoroastrian in Quran?