Islamic Eschatology - Strategic importance!

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Interesting direction this thread has taken.

I would remind my brothers to please not take anti-Shiaism as policy. Shia Muslims and Sunni Muslims have much in common. Extremists on both sides need to be marginalized and the Muslims of the world need to be united as one Ummat.

We can look at the Arab world's decay into civil war and proxy wars as the final result of infighting, and in this is hikmat (wisdom) for the rest of the Muslim world.

Bai there is this quality of Quran that nothing in isolation would ever make sense, if you wish to understand some concept from Quran, you cannot just read one verse, you have to read all related verses together. The practice is called Tasreef ul Ayat, it's like reading a law book where different related provisions are mentioned in different sections and on different pages. For instance read Surah Suf 61. The whole Surah and then the last verse. This is the same Surah which mentions that Issa had told his followers about coming of Ahmed. And the last verse confirms the accomplishment of Hazrat Issa's mission in this world.

There are many verses in the Quran about Hazrat Isa AS and his return. Ahmed is Muhammad saws, I am sure you know, and doesn't nullify Hazrat Isa's second coming.

What firqa or mazhab do you follow?

 

[I.R.A]

What firqa or mazhab do you follow?

None ......... I try to follow Deen e Islam, It's easy to understand, it's clear, true and without any contradictions and distortions.

I don't have to worry if I am entering Shiite mazhab Mosque, Brailvi mazhab Mosque, Deo Bandi mazhab Mosque, or Ahle Hadees mazhab mosque.

There are many verses in the Quran about Hazrat Isa AS and his return.

Which ones?

Is there Future tense in Arabic?

"Jab pahar aisay ho gay jaisay dhanki hui rangeen oon"

"Pukarnay wala pukaray ga ..."

"Phir tayray Rab ka wada poora ho jy ga ....."

I don't know, you should educate us. Was Abu Jahil an illiterate person?

Lo bhai ager written form mn tha tu zara uski manusrcipt dekha do ? Ya tmhary imam.e.ghaib k saath ghaib hogai hai ? Zameen kha gai ya asmaan nikal gya ? Hazoor SAW ki nishani hi yehi thi k he will receive oral quran or un k dil per quran utry ga werna kya Allah k ly written form mn utarna koi masla tha ?

Ohh mery bhai q history distort kr rhy ho ... Us wakt loog language sekhny k ly apny bchon ko village mn badduon k pass bhejty thy ... Chalo mm tmhari baat maan bhi lo tu tm zara mjhy kisi 1 university ya college ka naam bata sakty ho us zamany k ? Ya chalo hazron sahabah mn sy literate kinty thy un ka hi bata do ...

You know what was worst of Atrocities that Halaku Khan committed? He burnt and destroyed all the books.

Shahaba Karam dunia k her konay may chanay baichnay nai gay thay. Read upon them, read what non Muslims have to say about them, educate yourself about them, get out of these superstition and prophecy business and read what your actual Deen is, read and educate yourself that a Muslim's camel used to be his laboratory and a library and not waiting for Messiahs to come to their rescue.

 

[The Accountant]

None ......... I try to follow Deen e Islam, It's easy to understand, it's clear, true and without any contradictions and distortions.

I don't have to worry if I am entering Shiite mazhab Mosque, Brailvi mazhab Mosque, Deo Bandi mazhab Mosque, or Ahle Hadees mazhab mosque.



Which ones?



"Jab pahar aisay ho gay jaisay dhanki hui rangeen oon"

"Pukarnay wala pukaray ga ..."

"Phir tayray Rab ka wada poora ho jy ga ....."

I don't know, you should educate us. Was Abu Jahil an illiterate person?



You know what was worst of Atrocities that Halaku Khan committed? He burnt and destroyed all the books.

Shahaba Karam dunia k her konay may chanay baichnay nai gay thay. Read upon them, read what non Muslims have to say about them, educate yourself about them, get out of these superstition and prophecy business and read what your actual Deen is, read and educate yourself that a Muslim's camel used to be his laboratory and a library and not waiting for Messiahs to come to their rescue.

Another fairy tale without any basis ... Sahab.e.karam constantinopole phnchy hi nhi kbhi ... Turkey bht bàad mn fatah huwa hai

 

[I.R.A]

Another fairy tale without any basis ... Sahab.e.karam constantinopole phnchy hi nhi kbhi ... Turkey bht bàad mn fatah huwa hai

Hazrat Ayub Ansari where do you think he is buried? And he was one of the Shahba e Kabar.

 

[litman]

@TMA
shiekh imran persistently says that Prophet didnt used the words madina and he used yasrib but while going through bukhari and muslim i came across so many hadiths in which the word madina was used.there is section about the city in both these books.

 

[The Accountant]

Hazrat Ayub Ansari where do you think he is buried? And he was one of the Shahba e Kabar.

He was buried outside the wall of Constantinople as Muslims failed to conquer the city and eventually came back

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Which ones?

"Jab pahar aisay ho gay jaisay dhanki hui rangeen oon"

"Pukarnay wala pukaray ga ..."

"Phir tayray Rab ka wada poora ho jy ga ....."

I don't know, you should educate us. Was Abu Jahil an illiterate person?

He was one of the major sins of As Sa-ah (The Hour):

"He (the son of Mary) shall be a known sign of the Hour; so have no doubt concerning it and follow Me." (Quran 43:61)​

Every Christian and Jew will believe in him before his death, this means there will be a resolution concerning Islam's truth and the falsehood of the other two religions. He will play a major part in it. Separately he will bear witness against them on Yawm ul Qiyamat:

"And there is none of the People of the Book but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Judgment, he will be a witness against them." (Quran 4:159)​

Hazrat Isa AS was taken away and will be brought back to make his true message superior to the disbelievers. This will happen before Qiyamat:

[Mention] when Allah said, "O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you [in submission to Allah alone] superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ. (Quran 3:55)​

While alive on this Earth previously, Hazrat Isa AS never lived to adulthood. He will come back and live out the rest of his life:

"God gives you tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be Jesus Christ, son of Mary, held in honor in the world and in the hereafter, and one of those who are nearest (to God). He shall speak to the people in infancy and when middle-aged, and shall be of the righteous." (Quran 3:45-46)
​

------

Brother, there is even more proof in Sahih Hadith, but since you reject them, I only posted the ones from the Quran to prove that Hazrat Isa AS will come back.

One very important point I will make. Belief in the Hadith is obligatory as a Muslim. We don't know your internal faith (that is between you and Allah swt.)

I am praying for all of us that Allah swt shows us the truth of the message of Muhammad saws to be firm on Quran and Sunnah.

 

[I.R.A]

He was one of the major sins of As Sa-ah (The Hour):

*Signs

"He (the son of Mary) shall be a known sign of the Hour; so have no doubt concerning it and follow Me." (Quran 43:61)

Can you spell out name of Masih Ibne Mariam clearly mentioned in this verse?

I told you reading Quran's verses in isolation is not recommended, Tasreef ul Ayat is better.

"And there is none of the People of the Book but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Judgment, he will be a witness against them." (Quran 4:159)

[Mention] when Allah said, "O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you [in submission to Allah alone] superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ. (Quran 3:55)

I told Retired Troll a historians account about the person Jesus who got crucified. It was favorite pass time of people of book to argue how Jesus ascended to heavens and Jews how they had killed Jesus. Quran removed the confusion for Muslims and made it clear. Do you find it a coincidence that Christians today believe the same story as Muslims today? It's not a coincidence, it's their version introduced and well ingrained in Muslims now.

One very important point I will make. Belief in the Hadith is obligatory as a Muslim. We don't know your internal faith (that is between you and Allah swt.)

Thank you, I would like to be grouped with people who lived without these written hadees for centuries after departing of Messenger Muhammad Peace be upon him. I hope you know the origin and timing of Sahih Bukhari etc and origins of the people who wrote these books?

 

[The Accountant]

Read the whole surah, it is and was about Jesus A.S. ... now who is looking at them in isolation ?

*Signs



Can you spell out name of Masih Ibne Mariam clearly mentioned in this verse?

I told you reading Quran's verses in isolation is not recommended, Tasreef ul Ayat is better.







I told Retired Troll a historians account about the person Jesus who got crucified. It was favorite pass time of people of book to argue how Jesus ascended to heavens and Jews how they had killed Jesus. Quran removed the confusion for Muslims and made it clear. Do you find it a coincidence that Christians today believe the same story as Muslims today? It's not a coincidence, it's their version introduced and well ingrained in Muslims now.



Thank you, I would like to be grouped with people who lived without these written hadees for centuries after departing of Messenger Muhammad Peace be upon him. I hope you know the origin and timing of Sahih Bukhari etc and origins of the people who wrote these books?

Those people did not relied on written hadiths as they spent time with Prophet SAW or with the closed companions of Prophet SAW ... or there were institutes where hadith and quran were being taught orally ....

What option do you have?

 

[I.R.A]

Read the whole surah, it is and was about Jesus A.S. ... now who is looking at them in isolation ?

Read again please.

Those people did not relied on written hadiths as they spent time with Prophet SAW or with the closed companions of Prophet SAW ... or there were institutes where hadith and quran were being taught orally ....

What option do you have?

For goodness sake why are you hell bent on downgrading a whole lot of Muslim generations? O bai every important thing was written down and given a document from start, even Quran tells you to "Write your will ...." , "Write down your agreements ..." it has been a regular practice, absence of a printing press doesn't mean that those people didn't know how to write.

Halaku khan didn't just massacre Muslims, he helped the real enemy destroy our history, our identity.

 

[The Accountant]

Read again please.



For goodness sake why are you hell bent on downgrading a whole lot of Muslim generations? O bai every important thing was written down and given a document from start, even Quran tells you to "Write your will ...." , "Write down your agreements ..." it has been a regular practice, absence of a printing press doesn't mean that those people didn't know how to write.

Halaku khan didn't just massacre Muslims, he helped the real enemy destroy our history, our identity.

Halaku khan might have destroyed books in egypt, syria and iraq but what about books in arab and egypt ? They never reached arab and egypt ... Your argument is flawed ...

If there was so much written literature in Arab as you claim then where are those books?

Why all the scholars and imam belongs to Iraq and Syria and why all the famous Islamic universities were in Iraq and Syria and none in Arab..The reality is there was no tradition of book writing in Arab world (excluding few exceptions) and the literature was mostly in verbal form as Arabs used to proud over there memory and that the reason there is a tradition of memorizing Quran and not bible or any other book even in Iraq, Syria or Persia ...

Did you check ethnicity of all the great imam's and hadith writers of Muslims, almost all of them were either Iraqi or Persian, they learn reading and writing in there culture and start his journey in the age of 16 by visiting Mecca and then he visited all the places of learning of hadith in muslim world to compile hadith during which he compiled the hadith with strong and undeniable references only...

None of them were Arab although all of them went Madina and Mecca to learn as the culture in Arab world was to memorize hadith ...

Anyways lets close this topic here as we are not getting anywhere... You are arguments are baseless but you are still insisting on baseless things ... You should think about it, as you need to drastically revised your views on Islam ...

 

[Shane]

How do they Pray Salah/ Namaz, those who reject Sahih Hadiths ?
@The Accountant @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

What about other aspects of religion like Marriage which are only mentioned in The Quran without explanation of exact way to do it but if not for the Sahih Hadiths of Prophet Mohammed SAW to guide us how to exactly perform the steps for example of The Hajj or The Umrah etc?

The Nay sayers of Sahih Hadith are plenty and all without any reasoning that could differentiate one Sahih Hadith from the other Sahih Hadith. If there are Hadith about performing Salah then how can the same narrator's other hadiths be rejected which also cross checks with chain of other Sahih Hadiths?

And we all know the answers to the above and who reject the Sahih Hadiths and for what numerous purposes and ends.

 

[I.R.A]

Halaku khan might have destroyed books in egypt, syria and iraq but what about books in arab and egypt ? They never reached arab and egypt ... Your argument is flawed ...

O bai Baghdad was the center .......... all important documents and books were present there.

Did you check ethnicity of all the great imam's and hadith writers of Muslims, almost all of them were either Iraqi or Persian

Now you are coming to the main point of this discussion. Do you know who were the people who killed Umar may ALLAH be pleased with him, do you know how they took revenge of their defeat in battlefield on Islam, when they couldn't defeat Muslim armies in battlefield?

Please stop telling me that your persian imams were bigger visionaries than shahaba e kabar and people like Umar.

The Nay sayers of Sahih Hadith are plenty and all without any reasoning that could differentiate one Sahih Hadith from the other Sahih Hadith.

What was the age of Hazrat Ayesha at her marriage?

Your questions about how to say salat and marriage are childish.

 

[The Accountant]

O bai Baghdad was the center .......... all important documents and books were present there.



Now you are coming to the main point of this discussion. Do you know who were the people who killed Umar may ALLAH be pleased with him, do you know how they took revenge of their defeat in battlefield on Islam, when they couldn't defeat Muslim armies in battlefield?

Please stop telling me that your persian imams were bigger visionaries than shahaba e kabar and people like Umar.



What was the age of Hazrat Ayesha at her marriage?

Your questions about how to say salat and marriage are childish.

What a logic as the person murdered Hazrat Umar RA was a Persian therefore all Persians are enemy of Islam ,, lolz ... Ok who fought battles with Hazrat Ali R.A. or Amma Ayesha RA or Imam Hussain RA

Most importantly who were the fierce enemy of Prophet SAW ?

All those were Arabs , so your basis that murderer of Hazrat Umar RA was a Persian therefore, any work of Persians are against Islam is naive ...

 

[I.R.A]

What a logic as the person murdered Hazrat Umar RA was a Persian therefore all Persians are enemy of Islam ,, lolz

Not the common folks, not the common people .......... but you have no idea what damage did the assassination of Hazrat Umar bring.

Would you like me to tag our resident Parsi who can enlighten you with lots of things, that he boasts were borrowed from his religion?

... Ok who fought battles with Hazrat Ali R.A. or Amma Ayesha RA or Imam Hussain RA

What battles? Who told you that companions of Messenger Peace be upon him killed each other in battles? Were you there? Read Quran about stature and characteristics of the companions of Messenger first ....... and then try believing in a distorted made up history.

Most importantly who were the fierce enemy of Prophet SAW ?

Who were the most devout companions of Messenger Peace be upon him?

All those were Arabs , so your basis that murderer of Hazrat Umar RA was a Persian therefore, any work of Persians are against Islam is naive ...

@padamchen duck you.