Bratva
PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2010
- Messages
- 13,832
- Reaction score
- 67
- Country
- Location
Whatever happening around us due to deep schisms b/w muslims. Yet we shy away from talking about the core issues and discuss only militaristic, tactical and strategical issues of insurgency without zero discussions on the ideological influences. There are Pakistani,Arabic,Persian,Indian,Turkish corners discussing everyday of their life but why there isn't an Islamic corner where we discuss serious issues about early historic misconceptions that led to the division among muslims Influence of Mysticism in Islam.How and why extremism crept into Islam due to Civil wars among Muslims
Members already discuss such issues in respectable manner in various threads. Why not make a centralized thread, Moderate it heavily and we will discuss and inform each other about the things we dont know ?
I will tag moderators here first @Slav Defence @Icarus @Oscar @Manticore What do you think about this idea ?
I'm opening this thread in Seniors cafe. Will initially tag sensible posters from both sides to carry on the discussion @Serpentine @Daneshmand @Psychic @Akheilos @Saif al-Arab @Atanz @Donatello Tag along any sensible memebers who can discuss these issues in very delicate and sensible manners
I will began this thread with this Hadees From Sahih Bukhar which narrates the infighting among sahaba which aroused right after Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) death and there reconciliation afterwards which according to popular misconception remained through out the first 3 caliphs and thus borne the infamous concept of Taqqiya. . On the other hand it will bust several myths among Sunnis as well that it was all hunky dory among sahabas.
While this Hadith will clear misconception that Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) refusal was based on the saying of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH). He didnt do this for any material or worldy or personal gain. So if he was on the side of err. It is the matter among Allah and Abu Bakr to resolve this. We mere humans cant Judge Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) for his actions because he was acting on the Hadith of Hazoor Mohammad SAWW.
Narrated `Aisha:
Fatima the daughter of the Prophet (ﷺ) sent someone to Abu Bakr (when he was a caliph), asking for her inheritance of what Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) had left of the property bestowed on him by Allah from the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) in Medina, and Fadak, and what remained of the Khumus of the Khaibar booty. On that, Abu Bakr said, "Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "Our property is not inherited. Whatever we leave, is Sadaqa, but the family of (the Prophet) Muhammad can eat of this property.' By Allah, I will not make any change in the state of the Sadaqa of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and will leave it as it was during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), and will dispose of it as Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) used to do."
So Abu Bakr refused to give anything of that to Fatima. So she became angry with Abu Bakr and kept away from him, and did not task to him till she died. She remained alive for six months after the death of the Prophet. When she died, her husband `Ali, buried her at night without informing Abu Bakr and he said the funeral prayer by himself. When Fatima was alive, the people used to respect `Ali much, but after her death, `Ali noticed a change in the people's attitude towards him.
So `Ali sought reconciliation with Abu Bakr and gave him an oath of allegiance. `Ali had not given the oath of allegiance during those months (i.e. the period between the Prophet's death and Fatima's death). `Ali sent someone to Abu Bakr saying, "Come to us, but let nobody come with you," as he disliked that `Umar should come, `Umar said (to Abu Bakr), "No, by Allah, you shall not enter upon them alone " Abu Bakr said, "What do you think they will do to me? By Allah, I will go to them' So Abu Bakr entered upon them, and then `Ali uttered Tashah-hud and said (to Abu Bakr), "We know well your superiority and what Allah has given you, and we are not jealous of the good what Allah has bestowed upon you, but you did not consult us in the question of the rule and we thought that we have got a right in it because of our near relationship to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) ."
Thereupon Abu Bakr's eyes flowed with tears. And when Abu Bakr spoke, he said, "By Him in Whose Hand my soul is to keep good relations with the relatives of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) is dearer to me than to keep good relations with my own relatives. But as for the trouble which arose between me and you about his property, I will do my best to spend it according to what is good, and will not leave any rule or regulation which I saw Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) following, in disposing of it, but I will follow." On that `Ali said to Abu Bakr, "I promise to give you the oath of allegiance in this after noon.
" So when Abu Bakr had offered the Zuhr prayer, he ascended the pulpit and uttered the Tashah-hud and then mentioned the story of `Ali and his failure to give the oath of allegiance, and excused him, accepting what excuses he had offered; Then `Ali (got up) and praying (to Allah) for forgiveness, he uttered Tashah-hud, praised Abu Bakr's right, and said, that he had not done what he had done because of jealousy of Abu Bakr or as a protest of that Allah had favored him with. `Ali added, "But we used to consider that we too had some right in this affair (of rulership) and that he (i.e. Abu Bakr) did not consult us in this matter, and therefore caused us to feel sorry."
On that all the Muslims became happy and said, "You have done the right thing." The Muslims then became friendly with `Ali as he returned to what the people had done (i.e. giving the oath of allegiance to Abu Bakr).
Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 4240, 4241
In-book reference : Book 64, Hadith 278
حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ بُكَيْرٍ، حَدَّثَنَا اللَّيْثُ، عَنْ عُقَيْلٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ شِهَابٍ، عَنْ عُرْوَةَ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، أَنَّ فَاطِمَةَ ـ عَلَيْهَا السَّلاَمُ ـ بِنْتَ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم أَرْسَلَتْ إِلَى أَبِي بَكْرٍ تَسْأَلُهُ مِيرَاثَهَا مِنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم مِمَّا أَفَاءَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ بِالْمَدِينَةِ وَفَدَكَ، وَمَا بَقِيَ مِنْ خُمُسِ خَيْبَرَ، فَقَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ إِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ " لاَ نُورَثُ، مَا تَرَكْنَا صَدَقَةٌ، إِنَّمَا يَأْكُلُ آلُ مُحَمَّدٍ صلى الله عليه وسلم فِي هَذَا الْمَالِ ". وَإِنِّي وَاللَّهِ لاَ أُغَيِّرُ شَيْئًا مِنْ صَدَقَةِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم عَنْ حَالِهَا الَّتِي كَانَ عَلَيْهَا فِي عَهْدِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَلأَعْمَلَنَّ فِيهَا بِمَا عَمِلَ بِهِ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَأَبَى أَبُو بَكْرٍ أَنْ يَدْفَعَ إِلَى فَاطِمَةَ مِنْهَا شَيْئًا فَوَجَدَتْ فَاطِمَةُ عَلَى أَبِي بَكْرٍ فِي ذَلِكَ فَهَجَرَتْهُ، فَلَمْ تُكَلِّمْهُ حَتَّى تُوُفِّيَتْ، وَعَاشَتْ بَعْدَ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم سِتَّةَ أَشْهُرٍ، فَلَمَّا تُوُفِّيَتْ، دَفَنَهَا زَوْجُهَا عَلِيٌّ لَيْلاً، وَلَمْ يُؤْذِنْ بِهَا أَبَا بَكْرٍ وَصَلَّى عَلَيْهَا، وَكَانَ لِعَلِيٍّ مِنَ النَّاسِ وَجْهٌ حَيَاةَ فَاطِمَةَ، فَلَمَّا تُوُفِّيَتِ اسْتَنْكَرَ عَلِيٌّ وُجُوهَ النَّاسِ، فَالْتَمَسَ مُصَالَحَةَ أَبِي بَكْرٍ وَمُبَايَعَتَهُ، وَلَمْ يَكُنْ يُبَايِعُ تِلْكَ الأَشْهُرَ، فَأَرْسَلَ إِلَى أَبِي بَكْرٍ أَنِ ائْتِنَا، وَلاَ يَأْتِنَا أَحَدٌ مَعَكَ، كَرَاهِيَةً لِمَحْضَرِ عُمَرَ. فَقَالَ عُمَرُ لاَ وَاللَّهِ لاَ تَدْخُلُ عَلَيْهِمْ وَحْدَكَ. فَقَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ وَمَا عَسَيْتَهُمْ أَنْ يَفْعَلُوا بِي، وَاللَّهِ لآتِيَنَّهُمْ. فَدَخَلَ عَلَيْهِمْ أَبُو بَكْرٍ، فَتَشَهَّدَ عَلِيٌّ فَقَالَ إِنَّا قَدْ عَرَفْنَا فَضْلَكَ، وَمَا أَعْطَاكَ، اللَّهُ وَلَمْ نَنْفَسْ عَلَيْكَ خَيْرًا سَاقَهُ اللَّهُ إِلَيْكَ، وَلَكِنَّكَ اسْتَبْدَدْتَ عَلَيْنَا بِالأَمْرِ، وَكُنَّا نَرَى لِقَرَابَتِنَا مِنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم نَصِيبًا. حَتَّى فَاضَتْ عَيْنَا أَبِي بَكْرٍ، فَلَمَّا تَكَلَّمَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ قَالَ وَالَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ لَقَرَابَةُ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم أَحَبُّ إِلَىَّ أَنْ أَصِلَ مِنْ قَرَابَتِي، وَأَمَّا الَّذِي شَجَرَ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَكُمْ مِنْ هَذِهِ الأَمْوَالِ، فَلَمْ آلُ فِيهَا عَنِ الْخَيْرِ، وَلَمْ أَتْرُكْ أَمْرًا رَأَيْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَصْنَعُهُ فِيهَا إِلاَّ صَنَعْتُهُ. فَقَالَ عَلِيٌّ لأَبِي بَكْرٍ مَوْعِدُكَ الْعَشِيَّةُ لِلْبَيْعَةِ. فَلَمَّا صَلَّى أَبُو بَكْرٍ الظُّهْرَ رَقِيَ عَلَى الْمِنْبَرِ، فَتَشَهَّدَ وَذَكَرَ شَأْنَ عَلِيٍّ، وَتَخَلُّفَهُ عَنِ الْبَيْعَةِ، وَعُذْرَهُ بِالَّذِي اعْتَذَرَ إِلَيْهِ، ثُمَّ اسْتَغْفَرَ، وَتَشَهَّدَ عَلِيٌّ فَعَظَّمَ حَقَّ أَبِي بَكْرٍ، وَحَدَّثَ أَنَّهُ لَمْ يَحْمِلْهُ عَلَى الَّذِي صَنَعَ نَفَاسَةً عَلَى أَبِي بَكْرٍ، وَلاَ إِنْكَارًا لِلَّذِي فَضَّلَهُ اللَّهُ بِهِ، وَلَكِنَّا نَرَى لَنَا فِي هَذَا الأَمْرِ نَصِيبًا، فَاسْتَبَدَّ عَلَيْنَا، فَوَجَدْنَا فِي أَنْفُسِنَا، فَسُرَّ بِذَلِكَ الْمُسْلِمُونَ وَقَالُوا أَصَبْتَ. وَكَانَ الْمُسْلِمُونَ إِلَى عَلِيٍّ قَرِيبًا، حِينَ رَاجَعَ الأَمْرَ الْمَعْرُوفَ.
Hadith - Book of Military Expeditions led by the Prophet (pbuh) (Al-Maghaazi) - Sahih al-Bukhari - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)
Members already discuss such issues in respectable manner in various threads. Why not make a centralized thread, Moderate it heavily and we will discuss and inform each other about the things we dont know ?
I will tag moderators here first @Slav Defence @Icarus @Oscar @Manticore What do you think about this idea ?
I'm opening this thread in Seniors cafe. Will initially tag sensible posters from both sides to carry on the discussion @Serpentine @Daneshmand @Psychic @Akheilos @Saif al-Arab @Atanz @Donatello Tag along any sensible memebers who can discuss these issues in very delicate and sensible manners
I will began this thread with this Hadees From Sahih Bukhar which narrates the infighting among sahaba which aroused right after Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) death and there reconciliation afterwards which according to popular misconception remained through out the first 3 caliphs and thus borne the infamous concept of Taqqiya. . On the other hand it will bust several myths among Sunnis as well that it was all hunky dory among sahabas.
While this Hadith will clear misconception that Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) refusal was based on the saying of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH). He didnt do this for any material or worldy or personal gain. So if he was on the side of err. It is the matter among Allah and Abu Bakr to resolve this. We mere humans cant Judge Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) for his actions because he was acting on the Hadith of Hazoor Mohammad SAWW.
Narrated `Aisha:
Fatima the daughter of the Prophet (ﷺ) sent someone to Abu Bakr (when he was a caliph), asking for her inheritance of what Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) had left of the property bestowed on him by Allah from the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) in Medina, and Fadak, and what remained of the Khumus of the Khaibar booty. On that, Abu Bakr said, "Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "Our property is not inherited. Whatever we leave, is Sadaqa, but the family of (the Prophet) Muhammad can eat of this property.' By Allah, I will not make any change in the state of the Sadaqa of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and will leave it as it was during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), and will dispose of it as Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) used to do."
So Abu Bakr refused to give anything of that to Fatima. So she became angry with Abu Bakr and kept away from him, and did not task to him till she died. She remained alive for six months after the death of the Prophet. When she died, her husband `Ali, buried her at night without informing Abu Bakr and he said the funeral prayer by himself. When Fatima was alive, the people used to respect `Ali much, but after her death, `Ali noticed a change in the people's attitude towards him.
So `Ali sought reconciliation with Abu Bakr and gave him an oath of allegiance. `Ali had not given the oath of allegiance during those months (i.e. the period between the Prophet's death and Fatima's death). `Ali sent someone to Abu Bakr saying, "Come to us, but let nobody come with you," as he disliked that `Umar should come, `Umar said (to Abu Bakr), "No, by Allah, you shall not enter upon them alone " Abu Bakr said, "What do you think they will do to me? By Allah, I will go to them' So Abu Bakr entered upon them, and then `Ali uttered Tashah-hud and said (to Abu Bakr), "We know well your superiority and what Allah has given you, and we are not jealous of the good what Allah has bestowed upon you, but you did not consult us in the question of the rule and we thought that we have got a right in it because of our near relationship to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) ."
Thereupon Abu Bakr's eyes flowed with tears. And when Abu Bakr spoke, he said, "By Him in Whose Hand my soul is to keep good relations with the relatives of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) is dearer to me than to keep good relations with my own relatives. But as for the trouble which arose between me and you about his property, I will do my best to spend it according to what is good, and will not leave any rule or regulation which I saw Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) following, in disposing of it, but I will follow." On that `Ali said to Abu Bakr, "I promise to give you the oath of allegiance in this after noon.
" So when Abu Bakr had offered the Zuhr prayer, he ascended the pulpit and uttered the Tashah-hud and then mentioned the story of `Ali and his failure to give the oath of allegiance, and excused him, accepting what excuses he had offered; Then `Ali (got up) and praying (to Allah) for forgiveness, he uttered Tashah-hud, praised Abu Bakr's right, and said, that he had not done what he had done because of jealousy of Abu Bakr or as a protest of that Allah had favored him with. `Ali added, "But we used to consider that we too had some right in this affair (of rulership) and that he (i.e. Abu Bakr) did not consult us in this matter, and therefore caused us to feel sorry."
On that all the Muslims became happy and said, "You have done the right thing." The Muslims then became friendly with `Ali as he returned to what the people had done (i.e. giving the oath of allegiance to Abu Bakr).
Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 4240, 4241
In-book reference : Book 64, Hadith 278
حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ بُكَيْرٍ، حَدَّثَنَا اللَّيْثُ، عَنْ عُقَيْلٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ شِهَابٍ، عَنْ عُرْوَةَ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، أَنَّ فَاطِمَةَ ـ عَلَيْهَا السَّلاَمُ ـ بِنْتَ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم أَرْسَلَتْ إِلَى أَبِي بَكْرٍ تَسْأَلُهُ مِيرَاثَهَا مِنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم مِمَّا أَفَاءَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ بِالْمَدِينَةِ وَفَدَكَ، وَمَا بَقِيَ مِنْ خُمُسِ خَيْبَرَ، فَقَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ إِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ " لاَ نُورَثُ، مَا تَرَكْنَا صَدَقَةٌ، إِنَّمَا يَأْكُلُ آلُ مُحَمَّدٍ صلى الله عليه وسلم فِي هَذَا الْمَالِ ". وَإِنِّي وَاللَّهِ لاَ أُغَيِّرُ شَيْئًا مِنْ صَدَقَةِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم عَنْ حَالِهَا الَّتِي كَانَ عَلَيْهَا فِي عَهْدِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَلأَعْمَلَنَّ فِيهَا بِمَا عَمِلَ بِهِ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَأَبَى أَبُو بَكْرٍ أَنْ يَدْفَعَ إِلَى فَاطِمَةَ مِنْهَا شَيْئًا فَوَجَدَتْ فَاطِمَةُ عَلَى أَبِي بَكْرٍ فِي ذَلِكَ فَهَجَرَتْهُ، فَلَمْ تُكَلِّمْهُ حَتَّى تُوُفِّيَتْ، وَعَاشَتْ بَعْدَ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم سِتَّةَ أَشْهُرٍ، فَلَمَّا تُوُفِّيَتْ، دَفَنَهَا زَوْجُهَا عَلِيٌّ لَيْلاً، وَلَمْ يُؤْذِنْ بِهَا أَبَا بَكْرٍ وَصَلَّى عَلَيْهَا، وَكَانَ لِعَلِيٍّ مِنَ النَّاسِ وَجْهٌ حَيَاةَ فَاطِمَةَ، فَلَمَّا تُوُفِّيَتِ اسْتَنْكَرَ عَلِيٌّ وُجُوهَ النَّاسِ، فَالْتَمَسَ مُصَالَحَةَ أَبِي بَكْرٍ وَمُبَايَعَتَهُ، وَلَمْ يَكُنْ يُبَايِعُ تِلْكَ الأَشْهُرَ، فَأَرْسَلَ إِلَى أَبِي بَكْرٍ أَنِ ائْتِنَا، وَلاَ يَأْتِنَا أَحَدٌ مَعَكَ، كَرَاهِيَةً لِمَحْضَرِ عُمَرَ. فَقَالَ عُمَرُ لاَ وَاللَّهِ لاَ تَدْخُلُ عَلَيْهِمْ وَحْدَكَ. فَقَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ وَمَا عَسَيْتَهُمْ أَنْ يَفْعَلُوا بِي، وَاللَّهِ لآتِيَنَّهُمْ. فَدَخَلَ عَلَيْهِمْ أَبُو بَكْرٍ، فَتَشَهَّدَ عَلِيٌّ فَقَالَ إِنَّا قَدْ عَرَفْنَا فَضْلَكَ، وَمَا أَعْطَاكَ، اللَّهُ وَلَمْ نَنْفَسْ عَلَيْكَ خَيْرًا سَاقَهُ اللَّهُ إِلَيْكَ، وَلَكِنَّكَ اسْتَبْدَدْتَ عَلَيْنَا بِالأَمْرِ، وَكُنَّا نَرَى لِقَرَابَتِنَا مِنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم نَصِيبًا. حَتَّى فَاضَتْ عَيْنَا أَبِي بَكْرٍ، فَلَمَّا تَكَلَّمَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ قَالَ وَالَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ لَقَرَابَةُ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم أَحَبُّ إِلَىَّ أَنْ أَصِلَ مِنْ قَرَابَتِي، وَأَمَّا الَّذِي شَجَرَ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَكُمْ مِنْ هَذِهِ الأَمْوَالِ، فَلَمْ آلُ فِيهَا عَنِ الْخَيْرِ، وَلَمْ أَتْرُكْ أَمْرًا رَأَيْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَصْنَعُهُ فِيهَا إِلاَّ صَنَعْتُهُ. فَقَالَ عَلِيٌّ لأَبِي بَكْرٍ مَوْعِدُكَ الْعَشِيَّةُ لِلْبَيْعَةِ. فَلَمَّا صَلَّى أَبُو بَكْرٍ الظُّهْرَ رَقِيَ عَلَى الْمِنْبَرِ، فَتَشَهَّدَ وَذَكَرَ شَأْنَ عَلِيٍّ، وَتَخَلُّفَهُ عَنِ الْبَيْعَةِ، وَعُذْرَهُ بِالَّذِي اعْتَذَرَ إِلَيْهِ، ثُمَّ اسْتَغْفَرَ، وَتَشَهَّدَ عَلِيٌّ فَعَظَّمَ حَقَّ أَبِي بَكْرٍ، وَحَدَّثَ أَنَّهُ لَمْ يَحْمِلْهُ عَلَى الَّذِي صَنَعَ نَفَاسَةً عَلَى أَبِي بَكْرٍ، وَلاَ إِنْكَارًا لِلَّذِي فَضَّلَهُ اللَّهُ بِهِ، وَلَكِنَّا نَرَى لَنَا فِي هَذَا الأَمْرِ نَصِيبًا، فَاسْتَبَدَّ عَلَيْنَا، فَوَجَدْنَا فِي أَنْفُسِنَا، فَسُرَّ بِذَلِكَ الْمُسْلِمُونَ وَقَالُوا أَصَبْتَ. وَكَانَ الْمُسْلِمُونَ إِلَى عَلِيٍّ قَرِيبًا، حِينَ رَاجَعَ الأَمْرَ الْمَعْرُوفَ.
Hadith - Book of Military Expeditions led by the Prophet (pbuh) (Al-Maghaazi) - Sahih al-Bukhari - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)
Last edited:
