Is the military gap between Pakistan and India increasing or decreasing?

[Muhammad Omar]

Increasing...

They have all the money to buy what ever they feel right while we have to rely on soft loans etc

 

[blain2]

you have lost a lot for this flag , do something for pak citizens .

I usually don't get involved in these tiffs, but we would be a shameless bunch if we turned introvert when the Kashmiris are suffering and there is a land grab and re-settlement afoot.

Our citizens, for good or bad, have a country of their own, a government they elect and the ability to pursue things of their choice with freedom. None of this is available to the Kashmiris and thus, this flag has to be supported. I don't care for Kashmir to become part of Pakistan, however the Kashmiris and their rights cannot be ignored. I also understand that this cannot be a zero sum game for India either given the attachment and emotions invested. While it may fall on deaf ears, I still think the Musharraf formula was the right way to address this problem.

Eventually after thousands and possibly hundreds of thousands of lives lost, both sides will come to this same realization.

 

[GHALIB]

No Sir
I quoted what I remembered / checked last time. That was perhaps a long time ago or maybe India is moving VERY FAST.

I visited India more than a decade ago. At that time, I saw many stylish buildings housing IT Power Houses / Companies earning a large amount of money in USD. But again that was more than a decade ago. Things have changed. And India is far ahead of Pakistan today then many would want to believe.

No matter what statistics are discussed above, no matter what favorable / biased population based statistic is being put above, no matter how you portray poverty stricten population statistic, no matter how many discounted or free weapons I can buy,... etc etc,

When my neighbor has pockets 10 times more deep than I have

Then it is very very worrying four me.

Economics is what crushed the Soviet Union even though it had a huge industrial base and even though it had a huge economies of sale advantages.

Pakistan has none. Mere assembling a weapon does not make you an industrialized country.

This simply shows that the nuclear threshold is going to be reached far quicker than anticipated / predicted.

nukes will never be used . rest assured . wise people are at the helm of affairs in both countries .

 

[GHALIB]

Hahahahah, so air strikes and the fares of surgical strikes was done against Bangladesh then! No, frenamie we need an effective armed force to defend us against Indian aggression.

kv

you know why we did surgical strikes .

 

[GHALIB]

I usually don't get involved in these tiffs, but we would be a shameless bunch if we turned introverts when the Kashmiris are suffering and there is a land grab and re-settlement afoot.

Our citizens, for good or bad, have a country of their own, a government they elect and the ability to pursue things of their choice with freedom. None of this is available to the Kashmiris and thus, this flag has to be supported. I don't care for Kashmir to become part of Pakistan, however the Kashmiris and their rights cannot be ignored. I also understand that this cannot be a zero sum game for India either given the attachment and emotions invested. While it may fall on deaf ears, I still think the Musharraf formula was the right way to address this problem.

Eventually after thousands and possibly hundreds of thousands of lives lost, both sides will come to this same realization.

you are right , i appreciate your response .

 

[Khan vilatey]

you know why we did surgical strikes .

Yes....... we do surgical strikes and non surgical strikes with our artillery every day on the LOC ................. this is why we need a strong military. To ensure India never becomes a superpower. Just a weak regional big country. India will never succeed without a vibrant and economically strong Pakistan! I agree with @blain2 the Mushraf solution was the best way forward now more concessions will need to be given on water. If not at some point in the next 5 years Pakistan will have to conduct airstikes to destroy the dams India made in Kashmir. This will be a survival step for us!
Kv

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

The gap is only widening in Pakistan's favour. Despite being more than 7x smaller than india, india still remains FAR TOO Weak, powerless and scared to take on the Pakistani military. All indians can do is blow a lot of hot air and troll on the Internet. Nothing more...................

Whilst Pakistan is taming and subduing an enemy that is more than 7× bigger than it and has the full backing of the West and Russia, india has become the biggest recipient of american aid and has the highest number of severely impoverished and malnourished people in the world...........:

India top recipient of US economic aid - Times of India

US News: India has been identified as the largest recipient of U.S economic assistance over a 66-year period in inflation-adjusted dollars although Washington'

m.timesofindia.com

Half of the world’s poor live in just 5 countries

Of the world’s 736 million extreme poor in 2015, 368 million—half of the total—lived in just 5 countries. The 5 countries with the highest number of extreme poor are (in descending order): India, Nigeria, Democratic Republic of Congo, Ethiopia, and Bangladesh.

blogs.worldbank.org

India houses 24% of world's malnourished; 30% of stunted children under 5

India has shown improvement in reducing child stunting but with 46.6 million stunted children, the country is home to over 30.9% of all stunted children under five--the highest in the world

wap.business-standard.com

Why India remains malnourished

Two-and-a-half-year-old Rabina weighs 6.5 kg. A healthy child of her age should weigh at least 8 kg. But Rabina could not escape the curse of being born in Shiv

www.downtoearth.org.in

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10609407https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/10003228/India-has-one-third-of-worlds-poorest-says-World-Bank.html

India accused of poverty 'smokescreen'

India has been accused of creating a "smokescreen" to conceal the true scale of poverty in the country after the government claimed to have lifted more than 50 million people above the threshold in the last five years.

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Marker]

you know why we did surgical strikes .

To loose 2 aircraft and one pilot as PoW.

 

[ACE OF HEARTS]

nukes will never be used . rest assured . wise people are at the helm of affairs in both countries .

Tactical nukes if not BMs?

 

[batmannow]

If we look at the state of Pakistan's armed forces compared to Indian armed forces...starting from the time of independence...
...Pakistan has made immense progress at closing the gap.

There have been ups and downs...in some cases fast progress was made...and in some cases we fell behind in progress. An example being when Pak first acquired F16s...the airforce gained a significant qualitative advantage...then during the embargo all progress grind to a halt...and there was a time when PAF went without BVR capability while India had it. However overall the gap has closed especially when it comes to PAF and PN.

In case of PA...I'm disappointed in the lack of vision and focus. An example is that of tanks...Pakistan has Ukraine, Turkey, and China(others too) that it could've worked with to develop a decent tank(which I was hoping would be Al-Khalid 2 going forward). Instead they went for stop gap measures with 300 VT4(not to take away from its capabilities). It echoed the same stop gap measures taken before with T80UD and others. At this point it's a hodge podge mix of a a few hundred of this and few hundred of that. What the army needs is to focus on a decent domestic(or JV) tank(analogous to what the JF17 was for PAF)...churn it out over time to replace older tanks...and standardize the fleet. It can be improved over time as well(like JF17 blocks were)...
...either put all the focus in that...or decide once and for all...to import. So that money doesn't have to be squandered on an indigenous effort. If that's what the decision is...then go all in with some Chinese tank that fits the needs(like VT4 for example)...and go for license production(akin to Su30 MKI strategy of India).

I was happy to hear that PA was going for T129 with ToT...but that too is kinda up in the air.

So all in all...overall gap has closed...but PA could still do better IMO.

How can you forget evn the assault rifles what india have and what pak have

For a Pakistani, even Uganda Army can beat Indian army. So what? sote reho.....

Actully not, pakistanis are more vocal against PAK forces and thier mistakes tell me which genral in your dam history been ever tried in any of ur courts?
While we, don't think like fools, we know the gap between Indian and pak forces but then our discipline and training are far more suppierer then india, while in India it's military been trapped in massive crouption in which both of its political and militray establishment is involved, while in pakistan that level isn't massive like India and most of the time pak forces have get best because they are the ones facing indias massive buildup JF17S are huge example against TEJAS?

 

[batmannow]

Pakistan needs, 3 hundred thousand troops, 8 more sqdrns of its airforce with deep strike capablities, which means aircrafts with dual engines and bigger radars,
20 batteries of s300s or its competble version at least

1 aircraft carrier, 25 more frigates, 5 more nuclear subs and then let India go ahead what ever the hell they want, cause then pakistan will have enough to hit back but right now no its not have enough to hold out against India

 

[Khan vilatey]

Pakistan needs, 3 hundred thousand troops, 8 more sqdrns of its airforce with deep strike capablities, which means aircrafts with dual engines and bigger radars,
20 batteries of s300s or its competble version at least

1 aircraft carrier, 25 more frigates, 5 more nuclear subs and then let India go ahead what ever the hell they want, cause then pakistan will have enough to hit back but right now no its not have enough to hold out against India

friend, why would we need that much for a defensive posture

we have 250 front line multi role fighters f-16+ if-17. We will soon add 40 and by 2025 Ch-4,5,6 200+ drones in our inventory.

we have an army which is 600k strong angina India’s 1300K we have half in terms of equipment to India. We have to defend a land mass of 1/7th the size of India

we have a navy that by next year will have
8-12 frigets
20 ish corvette
Too many missile boats and fast patrol craft

8 submarines including 2-4 chines subs 3 upgrades Augusta 90s and 2 Augusta 70s
we have to defend a coast line 121 kms2 or 1000 sq kms

By end of 2021. Pakistan’s tank parity to India will be 2-1.5 from 2:1 today.

so a conventional war with Pakistan is no longer an option for India

Kv

 

[batmannow]

friend, why would we need that much for a defensive posture

we have 250 front line multi role fighters f-16+ if-17. We will soon add 40 and by 2025 Ch-4,5,6 200+ drones in our inventory.

we have an army which is 600k strong angina India’s 1300K we have half in terms of equipment to India. We have to defend a land mass of 1/7th the size of India

we have a navy that by next year will have
8-12 frigets
20 ish corvette
Too many missile boats and fast patrol craft

8 submarines including 2-4 chines subs 3 upgrades Augusta 90s and 2 Augusta 70s
we have to defend a coast line 121 kms2 or 1000 sq kms

By end of 2021. Pakistan’s tank parity to India will be 2-1.5 from 2:1 today.

so a conventional war with Pakistan is no longer an option for India

Kv

No defensive posture is needed now, cause it's not 80s, 90s, or evn 2000 era anymore you can't just be waiting for your enemy to hit you may it be frist and final strike and then you don't have any means left to reply back?
With growing conflicts in our region, we need efficient power to face off even a larger force and for that 8 to 9 hundred thousand troops will enough to face any larger enemy the one on one ratio will be very low and that means covering all fronts while still a rapid reaction force avalible for any kind of heavy face off?
While we need deep strike capability for our airforce which can hit back deep into enemy territory any where we need it?
With a aircraft carrier and 20 frigates and with 3 to 5 nuclear subs, we ill hve enough power to take care all of our seas with all threats?
And leme tell you very clear thing, no power willl alow a nuclear exchange between us and india and it will be conventional war which will happen in parts that means in series of wars!
Yes you have some pre 2000s F16S and yes now 150 JF17s but that's not enough if our enemy hits us from 4 to 5 differnt zones, and we lack deep strike stealth capablities to drop the needed punch on thier deep routed bases, 3 hundred thousand more troops will cover our all afghan borders with not much to think, while rest of our forces will be focusing on our enemy with very less one by one ratio!
Our enemy belives in attack the best defence, so we can't be just sitting ducks and waiting it to strike in Balakot and then reply back after days?
It must be at the same time, tit for tat, and belive me if your enemy knows that, they ill never do another Balakot strike anymore?
For deep strike capability is very much needed for just one enemy, it may come into play with Israeli bases near our regions!

 

[batmannow]

113	54 of these are Bison variety.[1]
SEPECAT Jaguar	United Kingdom	Ground attack	IM/IS[2]	118[3]
Mikoyan MiG-29	Russia	Multirole	MiG-29UPG[4]	65[5][6]	21 on order
Dassault Mirage 2000	France	Multirole	2000 H/I	45[5]
Sukhoi Su-30	Russia	Multirole	Su-30MKI	261[7]	272 delivered. 12 on order
HAL Tejas	India	Multirole	Mk.1	17[8]	23 on order[9][10]
Dassault Rafale	France	Multirole	EH/DH[11]	5	31 on order.[12]

Tthats present number of IAF airforce fighter /attack jets and you want to counter it with 250 total of 80 F16s, 130 JF17s and a few old MIRRAGES?????????

 

[Cookie Monster]

How can you forget evn the assault rifles what india have and what pak have

My post was more generalized rather than trying to make a comprehensive list of all the various factors and comparisons of gear, equipment, weapons, etc. Any examples I used were to illustrate a point...to support the generalized argument presented in the post.