Is Pakistan fighting undeclared 4th Generation war?

[RazPaK]

I am not a mureed of any pir but a fan of the Sufis. Punjab, especially areas of Lahore, Jhang & Multan etc. is full of shrines and majority of the people who grew up in rural Punjab before the Zia era would have visited some shrine with their elders during their childhood.

All of the Sufi saints of the subcontinent; the Naqshbandis, the Suharwardies, Qadris and the Chishties; were well known for preaching as well as practicing message of love and compassion. Sufi Saints were also famous for treating all human beings, be it an Emperor such as Akbar or poor peasants including non-believers with equal respect and compassion, thus visitors to their tombs included many non-Muslims. I have personally noticed hundreds of Hindus paying their respects at the shrine of Hazrat Moinuddin Chishti Ajmeri.

Also any serious student of history will find that most of the conversions to Islam in the Punjab and in Kashmir were through the efforts of the Sufis who preached a religion of peace and tolerance. Had they been the Wahhabis/Salafis/Deobandi etc., most of the subcontinent would still be of Hindu faith as they consider visiting shrines and many Sufi practices as shirk.

I was lucky to get the opportunity of visiting Baghdad in 1996 during UN oil for food deal. In addition to paying my respects at Kazmein, Karbala & Najaf, I made it a point of visiting Ghos e Azam Hazrat Abdul Qadir Gilani’ s shrine in the Eastern Baghdad as well as praying that the Imam Abu Hanifa mosque in Baghdad which also contains tomb of the great Imam. I have also prayed at the Muawiya mosque in Damas which contains tomb of the prophet Yahya (AS) and visited Syedah Zainab's tomb just outside Damas.

This must make me one the biggest practiser of shirk. However, since I have also have the good fortune of performing Umra & ziarat of the tomb of the holy Prophet (PBUH) in Medina, perhaps this might save me from execution by the Takfiris.

I come from a wahabi family, but my grandfather always had respect for the sufi saints.

Although, we will never go to a tomb.

 

[Armstrong]

I come from a wahabi family, but my grandfather always had respect for the sufi saints.

Although, we will never go to a tomb.

I won't prostrate before the graves either nor would I ask anything from someone whose long gone & with God but come on yaar not even a Fatiha for a great soul that people have chosen to remember ?

 

[niaz]

Here is an article by an Islamabad lawyer that reaffirms with my assertion that Pakistan is fighting a 4th/5th generation war but with TTP & their allies.

Quote

Fifth-generation war


Babar Sattar
Saturday, November 24, 2012

Legal eye

The writer is a lawyer based in Islamabad.

Ajmal Kasab was executed by India this past week. In Pakistan, those who labelled Kasab a hero and vowed to avenge his death included not just Lashkar-e-Taiba but also Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP). The TTP also assumed responsibility for targeting and attacking Muharram processions in Rawalpindi and Karachi, claiming 25 Pakistanis’ lives. And Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and TTP reiterated their pledge to continue attacking Shias due to their faith. Meanwhile, a suicide bomber attacked Qazi Hussain Ahmed, who unabashedly claimed that the attack was a US-Zino-Indo conspiracy and had nothing to do with the TTP.

What do these events have in common? They lend credence to contemporary security studies literature asserting that we might be witnessing Fifth-Generation Warfare (5GW). Let’s quickly recap. First-generation warfare depended on manpower: the largest number of able-bodied men fighting physically. Second-generation war depended on artillery and superior firepower, epitomised by World War I. World War II marked third-generation warfare characterised by synchronised air, sea and ground operations. The evolved form of insurgency warfare witnessed during the Chinese Revolution (1925-27) and later in Vietnam and Afghanistan has been called fourth-generation.

Fourth-generation warfare wasn’t about states fighting states or armies fighting armies within bounds set by the law of international armed conflict. Here combatants (who didn’t formally represent the state) used non-conventional strategies and targets to fight conventional military forces. Whether called insurgents or national liberation forces, the combatants used loose armed networks and un-disciplined brigades, had a great appetite for accepting casualties, and had no strict time limits to achieve their objectives. Their cause resonated with the local populace, which lent it legitimacy – such reputational credibility helped their recruitment drive.

So what then is fifth-generation warfare? It is loosely organised networks practicing violence and attacking nation-states in the name of a unified cause, while being empowered by contemporary political, economic, social and technological changes. Whether the emergence of Al-Qaeda or our indigenous ****** groups of various hues – TTP, LeT, LeJ, Jaish etc. – is fourth-generation or fifth is a moot point. Semantics do not matter for our purpose. What is clear is that non-state actors are no longer mere proxies of state but the prime threat to it. So fourth and fifth-generation warfare are ‘pre-Westphalian’, in the sense that they mark the end of the nation-state’s monopoly over violence.

The armed groups or networks neither fight in the name of the state nor are under its control. This argument cuts both ways. It challenges those who argue that ****** groups still function as a ‘veritable arm’ of Pakistani state agencies (that nurtured and created them in the first place). And it undermines the logic of conspiracy-mongering patriots who argue that these groups are free agents being financed and used by foreign forces to sow mischief within Pakistan. The understanding of fifth-generation warfare still doesn’t take away from the fact that state policies will remain the most crucial factor in defeating these new combatants.

We now know that these terrorist groups are structurally horizontal and not hierarchical, which adds to their resilience. The nation-state isn’t their unit of analysis and territorial boundaries don’t obstruct their objects and goals. They are willing to co-opt other networks or be co-opted whenever there is synergy: TTP and LeJ share anti-Shia agenda; TTP and LeT share anti-India agenda; and Al-Qaeda, Afghan Taliban and TTP share anti-US agenda. Given that these networks are not structured organisations but loose constellations, they are free agents and are probably co-opted by foreign agencies against Pakistan and its security forces for select operations.

But what we frequently miss in our analysis is that common amongst all these non-state networks of violence – and probably at the top of their list – is their anti-Pakistan agenda. They don’t accept the constitution of Pakistan and the rights and responsibilities it imposes on citizens; they don’t accept the writ of the state and the government and the legitimacy of the policies crafted by the state; and they don’t accept the rights and responsibilities of Pakistan as a nation state under international law.

These networks will agree to be co-opted by the Pakistani state so long as state agenda overlaps with theirs. So if our formal policy is to send jihadis into Kashmir and Afghanistan, TTP, LeT and Jaish are willing partners. But if our national security and foreign policy changes and exporting jihadis isn’t seen as promoting Pakistan’s national security interests, the same groups turn on the state. The biggest failing of our national security establishment has been the two-pronged delusion that (i) violent ****** networks can be controlled and employed to singularly further state objectives, and (ii) the religion-based ideology of hate that drives them can be turned off at will.

What we have witnessed instead is reverse indoctrination. It is the state agents that have come to be indoctrinated with the religion-inspired ideology of hate that then leads them to sympathise with the ****** outfits, as evident from reportedly insider-facilitated attacks on security establishments. And this makes logical sense. Nationalism and the nation-state are contrived concepts. Religion isn’t (except for atheists, of course). While our soldier is motivated both in the name of country and religion, it would be hard to assert that his state identity trumps his religious identity in the event that there is a perceived conflict between the two.

What the history of conflicts in Vietnam and Afghanistan has taught us is that even when powerful states fought a fourth-generation war with a third-generation strategy, they lost. Fifth-generation warfare has further blurred a lot of boundaries: What is a battlefield and what isn’t? What is a combatant and what isn’t? What is a weapon and what isn’t? If you take the war to North Waziristan, they will bring it to the urban centres. If you attack throat-slitting brutes, they will attack 14-year-old school girls. While you ponder over the legality and reasonability of the use of airpower and heavy artillery, they will brainwash 14-year-olds to blow themselves up amongst unsuspecting civilians.

This is a new form of warfare. The combatants or terrorists are no misguided fools. These are shrewd and ruthless tacticians fighting a no-holds-barred conflict. They understand the moral, psychological, social, economic and political dimensions of this war. They see a growing national consensus against their agenda and their tactics led by the media after the attack on Malala, and they threaten to attack the media. But deterrence isn’t enough. So they justify the attack in religious terms, while relying on examples from the lives of our prophets. And that helps sow enough confusion to stem the rising tide against them.

And what is our response to this extremely complex war? The ruling political elite has capitulated. The president has thrown his hands up stating there is no national will to fight. Our internal security czar wishes to ban bikes and cellphones, while the army fights this fifth-generation war with third-generation strategies. In speaking of solutions, let us start by acknowledging our grievous mistake: we have willingly made our sovereign territory the battlefield for this fifth-generation warfare by nurturing and entrenching terror groups within our polity.

Let us also acknowledge that Pakistan has witnessed a massive shift to the religious right over the last three decades and this shift has resulted in a proportionate increase in religious intolerance. Terror networks like the TTP, LeT, LeJ and others derive their legitimacy from a certain interpretation of religion. Since we don’t have one authentic view of religion, asserting that religion-inspired terrorists don’t represent true Islam is largely pointless. We have no prospect of winning this fifth-generation war unless, to start with, we consciously and formally (i) disconnect religion from the state, and (ii) identify in-house ****** groups as the foremost threat to national security.

Email: sattar@post.harvard.edu

Fifth-generation war - Babar Sattar

 

[K-Xeroid]

I won't prostrate before the graves either nor would I ask anything from someone whose long gone & with God but come on yaar not even a Fatiha for a great soul that people have chosen to remember ?

Agreed ! when anyone is a proved Saint or Religious scholar , He deserves Fatiha and Respect. But here in Pakistan I've heard so many different fake stories regarding to different tomb which you would find in almost each and every seperate town of every city, Now days these Tombs have become a source of earning money. Here may be many members dislikes my comment and do take it negatively, but I respect and believe on Saints but only then ,when I get proves that their history and events are authentic and true.. and I become more cautious when I realized that many of events which people relates with Hazrat Ali R.A aren't true or reached to us with bit twisted facts.

 

[VCheng]

Here is an article by an Islamabad lawyer that reaffirms with my assertion that Pakistan is fighting a 4th/5th generation war but with TTP & their allies.

...............
And what is our response to this extremely complex war? The ruling political elite has capitulated. The president has thrown his hands up stating there is no national will to fight. Our internal security czar wishes to ban bikes and cellphones, while the army fights this fifth-generation war with third-generation strategies. In speaking of solutions, let us start by acknowledging our grievous mistake: we have willingly made our sovereign territory the battlefield for this fifth-generation warfare by nurturing and entrenching terror groups within our polity.

Let us also acknowledge that Pakistan has witnessed a massive shift to the religious right over the last three decades and this shift has resulted in a proportionate increase in religious intolerance. Terror networks like the TTP, LeT, LeJ and others derive their legitimacy from a certain interpretation of religion. Since we don’t have one authentic view of religion, asserting that religion-inspired terrorists don’t represent true Islam is largely pointless. We have no prospect of winning this fifth-generation war unless, to start with, we consciously and formally (i) disconnect religion from the state, and (ii) identify in-house ****** groups as the foremost threat to national security.................

Summary: Pakistan has dug itself into a deep hole, and has not stopped digging further instead of trying to get out of it.

The odds do not look good at all.

 

[niaz]

Agreed ! when anyone is a proved Saint or Religious scholar , He deserves Fatiha and Respect. But here in Pakistan I've heard so many different fake stories regarding to different tomb which you would find in almost each and every seperate town of every city, Now days these Tombs have become a source of earning money. Here may be many members dislikes my comment and do take it negatively, but I respect and believe on Saints but only then ,when I get proves that their history and events are authentic and true.. and I become more cautious when I realized that many of events which people relates with Hazrat Ali R.A aren't true or reached to us with bit twisted facts.

What you say is very true. Many Pirs and their children live in a life of luxury on the donation of their ‘murids’. I also find it hard to believe some of the things attributed to Saints, for example the famous ‘Baheshti Darwaza’ at Pakpattan Sharif. Hazard Nizamuddin Aulia is reputed to have said that anyone who passes thru this gate will go to heaven. Don’t think Allah is so unjust that cold blooded killers can have their sins washed away just by traversing the gate.

My love for the Sufis is not because of miracles attributed to them or that visiting their tomb will facilitate achieving my heart’s desire. I firmly believe that no departed souls can influence events in this world. IMO most the stories are exaggerated and romanticized with the passage of time.

According to best my knowledge, all the famous Sufi Saints such Abdul Qadir Gilani, Junaid Baghdadi, Data Gunj Bakhsh, Bahauddin Zakaria, Bab Farid, Khawaja sahib of Ajmer & Nizamuddin Aulia & Syed Ali Hamadani of Kashmir were exemplary human beings. Kashmir was mainly Hindu & Budhist country as late as the 13th century. To this day you have Kashmiri Muslim names in common with the Hindus such Butt/Bhatt, Dar (Dhar), Kitchlu, Mantoo, Wattoo etc.

Some would argue that conversions in Punjab took place thru coercion; however, even the most bigoted Hindu scholars will agree that conversions in the Kashmir were because of the Sufis and benevolent kings such as Bud Shah (Sultan Ghiyasuddin Zainul Abideen 1423-1474).

It takes an extra person to convince another person to leave the religion of their forefathers and become Muslim. Kashmir, Sindh & Punjab became predominantly Muslim was because of these exalted persons. Thus my admiration and fondness for the Sufis.

 

[Rig Vedic]

Beauty and the ‘Beast’ of Sufism

Sufism ... does not describe a single set of doctrines but a disparate set of spiritual practices and mystical techniques which added a new dimension to Islam. In this the Sufi masters imbibed ancient spiritual traditions of the Greeks, Jews, Zarathustrians and Hindus which predated Islam. Nevertheless Sufis could be as fanatic as any mullah or army on the march of jihad. The history of Islam in South Asia demonstrates this very clearly. Like David Livingstone was to do in Africa these missionaries for the one true jealous male demiurge called ‘God’, acted as sappers and miners for the colonialism which was devastating ancient civilisations without mercy.

The Chishtiyya school was foisted on India by Muin-ud-din who had settled down in Ajmer in the twelfth century and converted some Hindus to act as his agents. He then made special demands from Prithvi Raj Chauhan and when they were ignored he immediately invited Muhammad Ghuri to invade and despoil the land in the name of Islam. Literature on the true fanatic nature of Sufis such as that of the Chisti order abound. Sculpted stones, apparently from a Hindu temple, are incorporated in the Buland Darwãza of Muin-ud-din’s shrine and his tomb is built over a series of cellars which may have formed part of an earlier temple. A tradition, first recorded in the ‘Anis al-Arwãh, suggests that the Sandal Khãna is built on the site of Shãdî Dev’s temple. Four Islamic mystics namely Moinuddin (d. 1233 in Ajmer ), Qutubuddin (d. 1236 in Delhi ), Nizamuddin (d.1335 in Delhi ) and Fariduddin (d.1265 in Pattan now in Pakistan ) accompanied the Islamic invaders in India . All of them were from the Chistiya order of Islamic mysticism.

Amir Khusru was one of the foremost disciples of Nizam-ud-din Awliya of Delhi who is counted among the five great sufis of the Chishtiyya school. He is himself regarded as an outstanding sufi on whose mazar in Delhi urs is held every year. His Hindi verses are cited as a proof positive of his love for the land of his birth. The great poet, sufi and artist Amir Khusro, full name Muhammad Hassan Yaminuddin (1253-1325) said to be a great human being because, he was the father of Qawwali, and he is even said to have invented the sitar and tabla, he loved India, and of course was tolerant and mystical.

Yet in his own words he glorified how Islamic hordes had despoiled India , sacking the infidel Hindu shrines for the glory of the true faith, saturated the land with the blood of idol-worshippers, and jizya imposed. Khusro lamented that the sultans had adopted the Hanafi code because it allowed them to categorise Hindus as dhimmis; which meant a third-class existence as opposed to outright extermination. The Sufi preacher Sayyid Ali Hamdani came from Hamdan in fourteenth century to Kashmir where after making converts made moved to stop Hindus building temples and restrict their religious practices as they were forced into dhimmi status, including payment of jizya.

Sufis fully supported the oppression and often forcible conversion of Hindus to Islam, accepting the gifts of adolescent boys and young women to their khanqahs and dargahs. Dara Shikoh, eldest son of Shah Jahan and rightful heir to the Mughal throne was perhaps the exception in trying to marry mysticism within Islam and Hinduism, such as translating the Upanishads into Persian. Of course he was killed by his younger brother Aurangzeb who was himself a Sufi, a follower of the Naqshbandi-Mujaddidi method and disciple of Khwaja Muhammad Masoom, the third son and successor of the founder of Mujaddidi order Shaykh Ahmad Sirhindi. That shaykh sent his fifth son, Khwaja Saif ad-Din Sirhindi, to instruct Aurangzeb in the strict application of sharia law such as banning musical instruments.

Many other famous Sufis also revered Aurangzeb, including the Punjab Sufi Sultan Bahu who wrote ‘Aurang-i-Shahi’ praising the emperor as a just ruler. Now Aurangzeb or Alamgir is notorious in history as the Mughal who tried to annihilate Hinduism completely, destroying temples and suppressing religious practices. Guru Tegh Bahadur and his two close companions Bhai Matti Das and Bhai Fateh Das were executed for refusing to convert to Islam. Aurangzeb’s tomb is in Khuldabad in Maharashtra within the courtyard of the shrine of the Sufi saint Shaikh Burham-u’d-din Gharib.

This association of the most fanatic and intolerant of Mughal emperors with Sufism will shock many who have been fed the belief that all Sufis were purveyors of a soft version of Islam. But the Naqshabandis had always stood for strict interpretation of sharia law. Khwaja Mohammad Baqi Billah Berang whose tomb is in Delhi introduced Naqshbandi order in India and due to common Turkic origins with the Mughal invaders this Sufi order always remained steadfast in its political loyalty right from the invasions of Babar.
His grandson Akbar is often portrayed as a tolerant ruler. Yet it was Akbar who made an annual pilgrimage to the Dargah of Muinuddin Chishti at Ajmer as he believed it was through the blessings of the Chishti saint through which he begot a son. Yet Moinuddin was of course the foremost symbol of Islam’s ceaseless war on Hinduism. Akbar was however more pragmatic than most which explains practical steps to involve powerful Hindu groups such as the Rajputs into becoming pillars for Mughal rule, such as abolishing the jizya poll tax. This of course earned the wrath of many, including the Sufis.

The mission of Shaikh Sirhindi (1564-1624) was to purify Islam from the influence of Akbar. He proclaimed himself the Mujaddid-i-alf-i-sãnî, ‘renovator of the second millennium of Islam’ and his Maktûbãt-i-Imãm Rabbãnî have been collected and published in three volumes. n letter No. 163 he wrote: “The honour of Islam lies in insulting kufr and kafirs. One who respects the kafirs dishonours the Muslims… The real purpose of levying jiziya on them is to humiliate them to such an extent that they may not be able to dress well and to live in grandeur. They should constantly remain terrified and trembling. It is intended to hold them under contempt and to uphold the honour and might of Islam.”

In Letter No. 81 he said: “Cow-sacrifice in India is the noblest of Islamic practices. The kafirs may probably agree to pay jiziya but they shall never concede to cow-sacrifice.” After Guru Arjun Deva had been tortured and done to death by Jahangir, he wrote in letter No. 193 that “the execution of the accursed kafir of Gobindwal is an important achievement and is the cause of the great defeat of the Hindus.” Sirhindi viewed Hindu mystics like Guru Nanak and Sant Kabir despicable, as they did not follow Sharia, he wanted to encourage the sacrifice of cows and revelled in the execution of Guru Arjun Dev.

Shah Waliullah, a prominent Muslim thinker of 18th century and the son of Shah Abdur Rahim, a Sufi who was employed by Aurangzeb for compiling the Fatawa-i-Alamgiri. This Sufi fanatic was of the Naqshabandi order and elevated Mahmud Ghuri as the greatest figure in Islam after the four righteous caliphs. No mention of Rumi here. Wali Ullah invigorated the practice of his Naqshbandi Sufi order, synthesising the disciplines of the three major Sufi orders namely Qadari, Chisti and Naqshbandi with a view to uniting the Muslim society against the Hindus.

Like Shaikh Ahmad Sirhind, he was also against the presence of Hindu employees in the administration of Muslim rulers as he viewed it harmful to the purity of Islam. His attempt was to purify Islam from the spiritual influence of Hinduism. In this context he invited Ahmad Shah Abdali to lead an Afghan invasion into India to save Islam from the infidel Hindus. He was therefore not open to the spiritual tradition of local Hindus in any form.

Sayed Ahmad Barelvi (1786-1831) was a disciple of Waliullah’s son, Abd al Aziz, and continued the tradition of by launching armed jihad with a view to restoring Darul-Islam but was killed in the battle of Balkot against Maharaja Ranjit Singh. Indian Muslims continue to regard him as martyr for the cause of Islam. Karamat Ali, a disciple of Sayed Ahmad Barelavi further developed the ideology for purifying Islam from the influences of Hindu custom and tradition.

Viewed in this historical perspective it is not only easy to see past the politically correct whitewash of Sufism but also realise that Sufis were merely a long line in salesmen for an intolerant belief system. There is therefore no real contrast between the aforementioned Sufi preachers and schools of thought, and that of more modern ideologies as represented by Wahhabism and Salafism in Sunni Islam, or Khomeinism among the Shia.

Indeed with modern technology and the organs of a modern state funded by petrodollars, media savviness and sophisticated use of social networking the neo-imperialist forms of Islam are merely doing what was beyond the reach of the Sufis.
While the compositions of Rumi and Ibn Arabi remain an inspiration to all humanity, they like the much-vaunted Islamic contributions to science were in many ways an exception, a temporary flickering light enveloped in uncompromising darkness. As Averroes (Ibn Rushd) discovered when asked to explain his knowledge of the heavens, and froze in terror because his scientific discoveries would contradict theological dogma, the mystical aspects in Islam had more to do with the legacy of civilisations which had been crushed underfoot than anything within the one true faith.

As the poetry of Rumi and Ibn Arabi demonstrate the spirit of antiquity had yet to be fully snuffed out. Freethinkers could still survive for now without being deemed infidels and heretics. It is that spirit which needs to be recaptured not the reconstruction of some non-existent past simply because the truth about Sufism is to inconvenient.

 

[Porus]

You are quite right. But I do feel very strongly about it. IMO killing someone only for his beliefs is a crime against humanity and I fail to comprehend how can anyone do it in cold bloodand those who directly or indirectly condone it.

A few weeks intensive training in an ISI-run and Saudi sponsored madrasa and you will be running amok in a nearby Hussainia.

 

[*Awan*]

 

[Erhabi]

Very useful and informative thread...sounds very logical to me...Historically, western imperialists conquered the whole world by dere divide and rule policy...America is doing the same but they just made it more sophisticated..the real question is how to tackle this situation? mass target killings? Martial law?..What can be done to neutralize the influence of America in our army,media and politics?

 

[*Awan*]

Very useful and informative thread...sounds very logical to me...Historically, western imperialists conquered the whole world by dere divide and rule policy...America is doing the same but they just made it more sophisticated..the real question is how to tackle this situation? mass target killings? Martial law?..What can be done to neutralize the influence of America in our army,media and politics?

For answers wait for my next thread

 

[*Awan*]

Mossad And India Spy Agency Team Up, Target Pakistan
By Tariq Saeedi
Globe-Intel
5-19-2

"It is essential that we...strike and crush Pakistanis, enemies of Jews and Zionism, by all disguised and secret plans." -- David Ben Gurion, the first Israeli Prime Minister.

Janes information group, the world's foremost source on intelligence information, reported in July 2001 that "The Indian spy agency RAW and the Israeli spy agency Mossad have created four new agencies to infiltrate Pakistan to target important religious and military personalities, journalists, judges, lawyers and bureaucrats. In addition, bombs would be exploded in trains, railway stations, bridges, bus stations, cinemas, hotels and mosques of rival Islamic sects to incite sectarianism."

Pakistani intelligence agencies also said that RAW had constituted a plan to lure Pakistani men between 20 and 30 years of age to visit India so that they could be entrapped "in cases of fake currency and subversion and then be coerced to spy for India."

This was the high point of cementing an unholy alliance which began much earlier and which continues to tighten its noose around the neck of Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan and Central Asia.

It appears that RAW and Mossad -- either singly or jointly, either covertly or overtly -- have been making efforts to penetrate sensitive circles of top echelon in Pakistan.

It cannot be said with certainty but there are some reasons to assume that Benazir Bhutto, the former prime minister of Pakistan, wittingly or unwittingly, played in the hands of RAW-Mossad masterminds. She appointed Rehman Malik as chief of the Federal Investigation Agency which then launched a secret war against the Islamists; amounting to a direct attack on the ISI.

War against religious extremists could have been a laudable goal but it seemed to target only those elements which could have brought a semblance of moderation to the religious swatch cutting across Pakistan society.

Thus, leaving the field wide open for extremists.

It seems that the Pakistani military was equally dismayed by reports of FIA contacts with the Israeli secret service, the MOSSAD, to investigate Islamist terrorists.

One of the first acts of President Leghari after dismissing Benazir Bhutto on November 5, 1996 was to imprison the Ghulam Asghar, head of FIA, suspended on non-specified corruption charges. Rehman Malik, Addl. Director General FIA, was also arrested.

Whether these actions were triggered as a consequence of plotting by RAW-Mossad planners or whether it was an entirely internal matter, it is difficult to say.

Bhutto s visit to India last year at a time when Pakistan was going through one of the worst crises in its history, and her statements there which aimed to undermine the whole foundation of Pakistan, generate more than a flicker of doubt in analytic minds.

The basic question arises: Who is Benazir Bhutto?

Leaving BB to her own fate, let's return to RAW-Mossad connection.

What is clear right now is that Indian RAW and Israeli Mossad are collaborating extensively to curb the freedom movement of Kashmir and destabilize Pakistan.

The Indian newspaper The Pioneer wrote on March 3, 2001: Fencing of the Indo-Pak border is not enough. To check Pakistan-sponsored cross-border terrorism, top security experts of Israel have suggested that hi-tech gadgets ranging from an electronic barrier system of radars to thermal imaging devices should be immediately installed on India's sensitive international border in J[ammu] & K[ashmir] and Punjab sectors.

The team of experts, including officials of the Mossad, the Israeli Army and the Israel Aircraft Industries (IAI), also found shocking loopholes in the security arrangements relating to the much-talked about Samjhauta Express. They advised that instead of Lahore, the train should terminate on the Attari border. Sources in the Ministry of Home Affairs said the Israeli experts surveyed the 198 km international border in Jammu and Punjab and reviewed the route of the Samjhauta Express with top officials of the Border Security Force.

Subsequently, former DG of the Border Security Force, E.N. Ram Mohan was appointed as the consultant on border management. Mr. Ram Mohan has recommended that besides radars, aerostate balloons and FLIR equipment be used.

India is keen to purchase surveillance aircraft (UAVs) from Israel to gain intelligence teeth. The UAVs could also help the state police in keeping an eye in naxalite-affected areas of Andhra Pradesh.

For several years, Mossad and Israel's internal intelligence agency, Shinbhet, have utilised unmanned air vehicles to patrol the hypersensitive Gaza border.

Qutbuddin Aziz, former minister in Pakistan embassy in London, wrote an excellent article, titled 'Dangerous Nexus between Israel & India.' It was published by a prominent Pakistani newspaper on April 1, 2001.

Aziz writes: "Top secret details of Indian Home Minister LK Advani's visit to Israel in June 2000, show that the deals he has struck with the Israelis would make India and Israel partners in threatening the Muslim world with diabolic conspiracies to fragment and cripple it as a political force in the world. The details of his meetings with Israel's rulers, particularly the heads of the Israeli Home Ministry and its intelligence agencies, Mossad and Sabak, reveal that the arrangements he has made for joint Indo-Israel espionage operations in key areas of the Muslim world would make the Indian embassies in these Muslim countries the eyes and ears of the worldwide cloak-and-dagger Israeli spy network.

"Under the euphemism of 'counter-terrorism,' India is allowing Israel to establish a huge spy establishment in India which will, inter alia, unearth and monitor 'Islamic fundamentalist' individuals and groups for elimination by extra judicial process or by cold-blooded murder and kidnapping.

"The most important meeting Indian Home Minister Advani had during his three-day Israeli tour on June 13-16 was with the top brass of Israel's intelligence agencies in Tel Aviv. Heading the Israeli team was the powerful chief of Israeli police, Yehuda Wilk, with the heads of the Israeli intelligence agencies, Mossad and Sabak, and military officials dealing with Israel's punitive and espionage operations against Arabs in Israel, Palestine and neighbouring states such as Lebanon and Syria. Senior officials from the Israeli Foreign Office and the defence and home ministries attended this meeting. Israeli experts in bomb detection were also present.

"Mr. Advani's large team included India's highest-level spymasters such as the Director of the Intelligence Bureau, Mr. Shayamal Dutta, the Director of the Central Bureau of Investigation, Mr. R. K. Raghvan, the head of the Indian Border Security Force, Mr. E. M. Ram Mohan, Indian Home Ministry's powerful Secretary K. Pande who oversees the work of the infamous Indian spy agency, RAW, and liaises with the Indian Foreign Office in respect of undercover RAW agents working in Indian embassies abroad, and a senior officer of India's military intelligence agency (equivalent of Pakistan's ISI).

"In this top-level meeting in Tel Aviv on June 14, Advani reportedly thanked the Israeli government for its immense help to India in security matters and spoke of the dangers India and Israel face from their common enemies, i.e., Muslim neighbours.

"Advani, it is reported, highly praised the help provided by Mossad and army commando personnel to the Indian army in the war on 'Muslim militants' in Kashmir and against 'Muslim terrorists' such as the 'Memon brothers' of Mumbai in Dubai. Advani said he had, throughout his political career, advocated India's recognition and friendship with Israel and that his party had played a key role in forcing Congress government to have full diplomatic relations with Israel in 1992.

"He lauded the Indo-Israeli cooperation in the military, economic and other fields. Advani recalled that India had voted in favour of a US-sponsored motion in the UN for rescinding a UN resolution that equated Zionism with racism. Mr. Advani explained at length India's security problems in which the danger from Pakistan and Indian Muslims getting Arab money loomed large. Advani gave a long list of the special services in spying and the anti-insurgency devices and spy equipment India urgently needs from Israel to combat 'Muslim terrorism.'

"In the June 14 Tel Aviv meeting, the Israeli Police Chief, Yehuda Wilk, profusely praised India for its friendship with Israel and pledged help to the Indian government in combating 'Muslim terrorism' that poses new threats to Israel and India. The heads of India's intelligence agencies then briefed the Israeli side in the meeting on the ground situation in India in respect of 'Muslim terrorists,' especially in Jammu and Kashmir, and the new dangers coming up for India and Israel because of the Pakistani bomb and the fear that Pakistan may give its nuclear weapons to the anti-Israel Arabs.

"The Indian side showed a keen interest in learning from Israeli security experts how they had run the slice of Lebanon which Israel ruled for 18 years and gave up recently. Some information about the Israeli torture and investigation methods was gathered by the Indian side from the Israelis with regard to dealing with Arab dissidents within Israel and in the Palestinian Authority region.

"The Indians gave the Israelis a long shopping list of spying, torture and surveillance equipment such as electronic fencing of sensitive sites, laser systems, short-range rockets, eagle-eyed long distance snipers, observation blimps, giant shields, night vision device, unmanned aircraft of the MALAT wing of the Israeli Aircraft Industries Limited, special protective dress and gear for security personnel, cross border snopping devices and gadgets, training and deployment of spies and the special gear for them, use of computers and Internet for espionage and disinformation, code-breaking, tailing of enemy agents and their elimination, nuclear espionage, purloining state secrets of hostile countries and pooling them for the good of India and Israel and their mutual friends.

"The Israelis were interested in having access to the secret reports of Indian undercover RAW diplomats from certain Muslim countries of special interest to Israel (especially Pakistan, Libya and Iran). India is apparently willing to grant access to Israeli agents to the Indian Home Ministry's Central Intelligence Processing Unit (CIPU) in New Delhi. This was recently set up under Advani's direction with Israeli and US help. A handpicked RAW officer, trusted by Advani, heads this unit. Israel wants full access to its information data. The Indian government has already allowed access to it by American intelligence agencies now working with the Indian government on so-called anti-terrorist assignments.

Federation of American Scientists website comments on RAW in these words: "RAW has engaged in disinformation campaigns, espionage and sabotage against Pakistan and other neighboring countries. RAW has enjoyed the backing of successive Indian governments in these efforts. Working directly under the Prime Minister, the structure, rank, pay and perks of the Research & Analysis Wing are kept secret from Parliament."

Tarek Fatah, a Turkish scholar settled in Canada, wrote: "Britain's authoritative and respected defense publication, Jane's Terrorism & Security Monitor, reports that Israel and India have formed a military relationship and that Israeli intelligence is active in Occupied Kashmir.


"It says: Israeli intelligence agencies have been intensifying their relations with India's security apparatus and are now understood to be heavily involved in helping New Delhi combat Islamic militants in the disputed province of Kashmir...

Ed Blanche writes in Janes' Security on 14 August 2001: "Israeli intelligence agencies have been intensifying their relations with India's security apparatus and are now understood to be heavily involved in helping New Delhi combat Islamic militants in the disputed province of Kashmir, India's only Muslim-majority state which lies at the core of the conflict with neighbouring Pakistan.

"Israel has several teams now in Kashmir training Indian counter-insurgency forces to fight the dozen separatist guerrilla groups operating in the Indian-controlled sector of the disputed state.

"The exact extent of the involvement in Kashmir by Israel s intelligence agencies is far from clear, but it fits into Israel's increasing focus on events in Central Asia, and as far afield as Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim state, to counteract Islamic fundamentalism, which it perceives as a major threat.

"Shimon Peres, currently Israel's foreign minister, said during a visit to New Delhi in January 2001 (shortly before he took his current post in Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's coalition government) that Israel was prepared to co-operate with India to fight terrorism. Weeks earlier, an Israeli counterterrorism team, including military intelligence specialists and senior police commanders, paid a visit to Indian-administered Kashmir and other regions of the country that are grappling with anti-government militants to assess India's security needs.


If there is still any doubt as to the real intentions of Israel, then please see this statement issued by David Ben Gurion, the first Israeli Prime Minister. His words, as printed in the Jewish Chronicle, 9 August 1967, leave nothing to imagination:

"The world Zionist movement should not be neglectful of the dangers of Pakistan to it. And Pakistan now should be its first target, for this ideological State is a threat to our existence. And Pakistan, the whole of it, hates the Jews and loves the Arabs.

"This lover of the Arabs is more dangerous to us than the Arabs themselves. For that matter, it is most essential for the world Zionism that it should now take immediate steps against Pakistan.

"Whereas the inhabitants of the Indian peninsula are Hindus whose hearts have been full of hatred towards Muslims, therefore, India is the most important base for us to work therefrom against Pakistan.

"It is essential that we exploit this base and strike and crush Pakistanis, enemies of Jews and Zionism, by all disguised and secret plans. ____

We are grateful to Tariq Saeedi for permission to reprint excerpts from his special report that appeared first in The Balochistan Post, balochistanpost.com .

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Source:Mossad And India Spy Agency Team Up, Target Pakistan

Old article,but still worthy to post again

 

[FaujHistorian]

Mossad And India Spy Agency Team Up, Target Pakistan
By Tariq Saeedi
Globe-Intel
5-19-2

"It is essential that we...strike and crush Pakistanis, enemies of Jews and Zionism, by all disguised and secret plans." -- David Ben Gurion, the first Israeli Prime Minister.

Pathetic Mullahs are at it again.

Quoting non-sensical stuff to fing Israelis, and Indians,

While our shalwar Qameez is being cut and burnt by Mullahs.


Any dimwit constipated conspiracy theorists, show me one Israeli agent caught by anyone in Pakistan, or an India Agent caught in Pakistan doing something against Pak army or police, then we can continue.


But these HuT goons from UK spew stuff against the West while these Mullah Aziz Haraam khor Burqaposh are burning down Pakistan within.

And we have 2-bit Mullahs parroting Hanud and Yahud 5 times a day.


Oh Bhai. Maaf Karo.

Do not turn Pakistan into a mad Mullahtic state like Iran where Marg Bar Amreek and Marg bar israel is the main religion being chanted 5 times a day in the Shia Mosques. Who the heck cares about remembering Allah and his Rasool and his Khulafa Rashideen 5 times a day.

Heck Iranians will physically lynch 3 out of 4 Khalifa Rashideen if they were to appear today.


In this maddness, Mullahs from within and Mullahs from outside are conspiring, killing, and kidnapping Pakistanis,

And we have Burqposh toadies spewing poison at everyone but beardos.


If any of you constipated conspiracy theorist prove me that haqqani, Fazlu, JI goons, Mllah burqposh are agents of Hanud and Yahood, I'll say you have a small heap of turd to stand on.

But I know you can't. So please stop shoveling Islamist $hite please. Stop spreading Jahliya.

Stop supporting the killers of our girls and our women.

these pagans used to kill young girls before Islam

Now they are killing young girls in the name of Islam

What a pathetic state of mind,.

Sadly

 

[FaujHistorian]

A few weeks intensive training in an ISI-run and Saudi sponsored madrasa and you will be running amok in a nearby Hussainia.

Can you name one Mad house Madrassah today that is run by ISI?

Even one?

....................Now days these Tombs have become a source of earning money....

My dear poster, every religious place is a source of income. Why just tombs?

At least tombs are not getting Jih@di $hite money from gulf charities. You should be happy that only local Pakistanis finance them.

 

[*Awan*]

Dr. Wahid Baloch is the leading Baloch political activist in North America. He is the founder and President of Baloch Society of North America (BSO-NA), an organization dedicated to highlight the plights of Baloch people in Balochistan. BSO-NA, the first established Baloch human rights organizations in North America, was formed to educate the American people and the world community about Balochistan, exploitation of its resources and to bring the human right violations in Balochistan into world's notice.

Wahid Baloch with Gandhi Statue

with Vice President Joe Biden

with Senator Late Ted Kennedy

with Congressman Russ Feingold

with Ralph Peters
Ralph Peters is a retired United States Army Lieutenant Colonel and author.He is the person who proposed following map

with Zalmay Khalilzad

with Congressman Gary Ackerman

with Qubad Talabani