Is Pakistan fighting undeclared 4th Generation war?

[VCheng]

Do you know how your post really appears?

I am disappointed at the honourable members who appear to have a soft spot for the Taliban/Sectarian parties’ alliance. Lashkar Jhangvi is a part of TTP and they shout from the rooftop that they are target killing Shias because they earn 'Thawab' by killing heretics. Is this not the 4th Generation war that Pakistan is fighting? Here is a link to the Dawn blog on the plight of the Hazara community who are targeted only because they are Shia.


I am Hazara | DAWN.COM

Pray tell me is this work of US/CIA/Zionist/Afghan/India conspiracy or of the section of Wahhabi/Deobandi/Salafin/Takfiri followers who want to destroy Pakistan? But of course I am a liberal fascist who is a stooge of the West because I won a scholarship for study in the UK. TTP are real Muslims and their beheading of the PA soldiers, attacking teen age school girls are justified by Quran & Sunni in their version of Islam. I am however a human being and a Pakistani and whenever innocent Pakistani blood is shed, I feel deep anger against the perpetrators and their sympathizers.

 

[niaz]

Do you know how your post really appears?

You are quite right. But I do feel very strongly about it. IMO killing someone only for his beliefs is a crime against humanity and I fail to comprehend how can anyone do it in cold blood and those who directly or indirectly condone it.

 

[VCheng]

You are quite right. But I do feel very strongly about it. IMO killing someone only for his beliefs is a crime against humanity and I fail to comprehend how can anyone do it in cold blood and those who directly or indirectly condone it.

I agree with you, but certain groups will find it easy to attribute your failed comprehension as a sign of a weak Eeman.

 

[Fracker]

I am disappointed at the honourable members who appear to have a soft spot for the Taliban/Sectarian parties’ alliance. Lashkar Jhangvi is a part of TTP and they shout from the rooftop that they are target killing Shias because they earn 'Thawab' by killing heretics. Is this not the 4th Generation war that Pakistan is fighting? Here is a link to the Dawn blog on the plight of the Hazara community who are targeted only because they are Shia.


I am Hazara | DAWN.COM

Pray tell me is this work of US/CIA/Zionist/Afghan/India conspiracy or of the section of Wahhabi/Deobandi/Salafin/Takfiri followers who want to destroy Pakistan? But of course I am a liberal fascist who is a stooge of the West because I won a scholarship for study in the UK. TTP are real Muslims and their beheading of the PA soldiers, attacking teen age school girls are justified by Quran & Sunni in their version of Islam. I am however a human being and a Pakistani and whenever innocent Pakistani blood is shed, I feel deep anger against the perpetrators and their sympathizers.

yeah yeah, right arguments, without any logic.

If you can't argue, nor discuss, then you are at wrong place. This is place for the discussion rather then judgement.

I agree with you, but certain groups will find it easy to attribute your failed comprehension as a sign of a weak Eeman.

Or certain group will present my attributes as a friend/soft cornered/Taliban Sympathized/Extremists/fundamentalist..

 

[niaz]

yeah yeah, right arguments, without any logic.

If you can't argue, nor discuss, then you are at wrong place. This is place for the discussion rather then judgement.

Or certain group will present my attributes as a friend/soft cornered/Taliban Sympathized/Extremists/fundamentalist..

Even today there have been two bomb explosions in Karachi and one in Dhok Syedaan in Rawalpindi. Targets were the Shia places of worship. What was the crime of the people who were killed and wounded except that they belonged to a different sect of Islam? Who in your opinion is doing this killing? CIA/Zionist/Afghan /Indian Conspiracy or Pakistani sectarian parties?

There is little doubt that CIA/Zinoists are after Pak nukes with India & Afghanistan supporting Baluch separatist. However, it is easier to confront foreign dangers as the enemy is identifiable. Dealing with internal dangers where the suicide bomber is indistinguishable from an innocent passer-by is far more difficult.

Thus real 4th generation war is the internal strife as it causes an implosion from within. You have read that Hazaras have been forced to move from Pakistan in droves because of sectarian attacks, does it not affect economics of Quetta and destruction of its cultural balance?

Constant internal strife means deterioration in law and order. Consequences are that both the foreign and local investment shy away from Pakistan thus causing increased unemployment and poverty which in turn creates increased criminal activity resulting in further lack of economic activity and flight of capital.

I don't mind admitting that I am stupid and pass judgement without logic. You are free to call me any other names if it pleases you as it makes little difference to Pakistan. It would however make a great deal of difference if intelligent Pakistanis realize who the real enemies of our beloved country are. Pakistan is fighting a war of survival and remaining in a contacting state of denial could mean eventual destruction of Pakistan.

P.S. TTP has since claimed responsibility for these bombings.

 

[PakShaheen79]

That is an Overstatement .

Cutting anybody's oil is Direct Declaration of War .

Yeah absolutely, but in this case, you are not attacking someone just using geography of a third country (Pakistan) to stop someone (China) to reach to Arabian sea. So which Declaration of war you are talking about?

Ok We are Talking about Indian Ocean or Arabian Sea or Persian Gulf or Mallaka Straits ??

This might help you.

The Indian Ocean is the third largest of the world's oceanic divisions, covering approximately 20% of the water on the Earth's surface.[1] It is bounded by Asia—including India, after which the ocean is named[2][3][4][5]—on the north, on the west by Africa, on the east by Australia, and on the south by the Southern Ocean (or, depending on definition, by Antarctica.)[6]

As one component of the World Ocean, the Indian Ocean is delineated from the Atlantic Ocean by the 20° east meridian running south from Cape Agulhas, and from the Pacific Ocean by the meridian of 146°55' east.[7] The northernmost extent of the Indian Ocean is approximately 30° north in the Persian Gulf. The ocean is nearly 10,000 km (6,200 mi) wide at the southern tips of Africa and Australia, and its area is 73,556,000 km² (28,350,000 mi²)[8], including the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf.

The ocean's volume is estimated to be 292,131,000 km³ (70,086,000 mi³).[9] Small islands *** the continental rims. Island nations within the ocean are Madagascar (the world's fourth largest island), Comoros, Seychelles, Maldives, Mauritius, and Sri Lanka. The archipelago of Indonesia borders the ocean on the east.Indian Ocean - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Becuase Relationship between Taiwan , China , Japan , South Korea , Philippines , Vietnam etc are Going Batshit crazy . Their are also rumors of huge resources in the disputed area and that is the Reason US is planning to move 60 percent of its Naval Fleet in Pacific by 2020 , but if you ignore these direct Geo-political Circumstances i can't help you .

And did that ever occur to you that geopolitical circumstances for all this naval power projection by the US is also a part of plan in Great Game? China is an emerging and assertive player on regional and international stage so containment strategy deployed by the US (China's global competitor) is not limited via Afghanistan and Pakistan only. Plus why you think the US has pushed the bilateral military relations with India (China's regional competitor) in top gear suddenly. Soviet factor was eliminated in 1980's. Here, you can see the mutually aligned national interests and this makes Pakistan (China's ally) a natural target both for India and her strategic ally the US obviously not due to religion or anything else, but due to damn geography! If you didn't get it even after this then I would assume that we agree to disagree on some places

 

[Zarvan]

The war has been declared against Pakistan at all fronts our own media is betraying Pakistan and promoting kufr ideologies USA and other countries are getting funds from USA people have been arrested by our agencies who were working with RAW and TTP terrorists from major Pakistani cities Pakistan has to fight at many fronts at the same time

 

[*Awan*]

so people agree that we are fighting 4th generation.what are solutions?how we can counter the propaganda of our enemies?

Sectarian issue (Shia sunni fight)
-there are many dimensions of this issue.

-one dimension is,American in particular and westrens in general has enemity with political islam.Because sunnies want and support political islam so sunnies are natural enemies of Americans where as shia support the concept of division of state and religion so they are their natural allies.their is a great deal of unity among shias.if some one will target shia its natural in order to defend them selves,their home and property shia will try to occupy the power sources.in this case politics,law enforcement and army,media.In this way west have to deal with people of their likeness.

-Shia play victim card and talk about lasker e jangvi,sipa e sahaba,wahabi funding.these all things are true.but why they don't talk about lashkare mehdi and sipa e Muhammad.and iso.why they don't talk about who are funding their Imam barghas and what is "khumas".so its not 1 way traffic?

-shias complain that when they are get killed why their is no voice for condemnation for these acts?my dear country men we do condemn.tell me what an ordinary person can do other than denoting his blood for the victims?

-similarly why shias don't condemn those zakirs who bark and abuse the wives and companion of prophets?because people in lashkar e jangvi and sipa e sahaba claim that they target shia because they are extremely abusive to prophet companions and wives?
why not we make a law where any one who abuse them should be punished?do you think without addressing this issue peace can be established?

-division of pakistani society on secterian issue is not the only approach in 4th gen war.Pakistani society is being divided horizontally and vertically.we are being get divided in classes.where upper class has different health, and education facilities then lower class.then comes the ethnic and linguistic division.why are respected member did not touch this topic and instead focused all his energies on sectarian division.

-Then comes the ngos.we have seen in the case of Osama a ngo name "save the children" is used against the state of pakistan.similarly german spy was also using the cover of ngo.



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[*Awan*]

what do you think how we can give more rights to minorities?

as i already said in time of prophet their was three separate judicial systems.
1)for muslims
2)for jews
3)for christians
this is because they are considred as people of book.its an other story that for 300 yers both jews dont have their torah and christians dont have their bible but still in state of madina it was so.

can we revive the same concept and establish 4 judicial systems.
1)for muslims
2)for jews
3)for christians
4)hindus,sikhs,atheist,bidh,parsi etc etc

if non muslim can be punished if he insults prophet,similarly a muslim/non muslim can be punished who insult,jesus,musa,ram,krishan,zurtasht

 

[*Awan*]

-what about a law where we ban flags of all the political parties?and say that only national flag is allowed.

-why not we establish a uniform education system.where a boy/girl can get religious as well as worldly knowledge?this thing will surely bring uniformity in our society and the division between our mullahs and liberals will be minimized.

 

[Fracker]

Solution is very simple, if anyone understand...

Yes two people can't be same, but differences make societies, cultures, and unity makes the Nation... Powerful nations... So Accept differences, and get "united"

 

[*Awan*]

@niaz sahib i am unable to quote your post.thats why i cant reply you specifically.their is no tools like quote,bold in reply section.
i have my differences with wahabies,deobandies,brelvies and shias.so in which category do i fall?
but i am pro sufi-ism.not the type you see on mazars but the top intellectuals like junaid baghdadi,usman ali hajveri

 

[BATMAN]

Ban.. sectarian branding and public display of sectarianism.

It includes head covers of various colours.

All such people shall be taken to rehabs.

 

[BATMAN]

@niaz sahib i am unable to quote your post.thats why i cant reply you specifically.their is no tools like quote,bold in reply section.
i have my differences with wahabies,deobandies,brelvies and shias.so in which category do i fall?
but i am pro sufi-ism.not the type you see on mazars but the top intellectuals like junaid baghdadi,usman ali hajveri

Manf-E-At Ek Hai Is Qaum Ki Nuqsaan Bhi Ek
Ek Hi Sab Ka Nabi Deen Bhi Iman Bhi Ek
Harame Paak Bhi Allah Bhi Quran Bhi Ek
Kuchh Bari Baat Thi Hote Jo Musalman Bhi Ek

 

[niaz]

@niaz sahib i am unable to quote your post.thats why i cant reply you specifically.their is no tools like quote,bold in reply section.
i have my differences with wahabies,deobandies,brelvies and shias.so in which category do i fall?
but i am pro sufi-ism.not the type you see on mazars but the top intellectuals like junaid baghdadi,usman ali hajveri

I am not a mureed of any pir but a fan of the Sufis. Punjab, especially areas of Lahore, Jhang & Multan etc. is full of shrines and majority of the people who grew up in rural Punjab before the Zia era would have visited some shrine with their elders during their childhood.

All of the Sufi saints of the subcontinent; the Naqshbandis, the Suharwardies, Qadris and the Chishties; were well known for preaching as well as practicing message of love and compassion. Sufi Saints were also famous for treating all human beings, be it an Emperor such as Akbar or poor peasants including non-believers with equal respect and compassion, thus visitors to their tombs included many non-Muslims. I have personally noticed hundreds of Hindus paying their respects at the shrine of Hazrat Moinuddin Chishti Ajmeri.

Also any serious student of history will find that most of the conversions to Islam in the Punjab and in Kashmir were through the efforts of the Sufis who preached a religion of peace and tolerance. Had they been the Wahhabis/Salafis/Deobandi etc., most of the subcontinent would still be of Hindu faith as they consider visiting shrines and many Sufi practices as shirk.

I was lucky to get the opportunity of visiting Baghdad in 1996 during UN oil for food deal. In addition to paying my respects at Kazmein, Karbala & Najaf, I made it a point of visiting Ghos e Azam Hazrat Abdul Qadir Gilani’ s shrine in the Eastern Baghdad as well as praying at the Imam Abu Hanifa mosque in Baghdad which also contains tomb of the great Imam. I have also prayed at the Muawiya mosque in Damas which contains tomb of the prophet Yahya (AS) and visited Syedah Zainab's tomb just outside Damas.

This must make me one the biggest practiser of shirk. However, since I have also have the good fortune of performing Umra & ziarat of the tomb of the holy Prophet (PBUH) in Medina, perhaps this might save me from execution by the Takfiris.