Iranian Jet Engine Design and Manufacturing Company is Established

[SOHEIL]

Guys ... Just stop the bs & wait for real qaher !

 

[VEVAK]

Nope , if they make a prototype , they will see what strength and weakness of Qaher has ...

If you saw the problems in design , then im sure MoD engreeners understand this ...

Probably they make a flying prototype for propaganda , then they will Chang the design ....

Don't forget this is first time that we want make a fighter base on 100 percent indigues design.... We will learn some new things ....

It's simple physics! I don't need to build a prototype to know that the F-313 will never break the sound barrier!

Speed: Subsonic
Payload Capacity: Low
Survivability: Low
Maneuverability: Medium (compared to other subsonic fighters)
Air-Air refueling: None
Durability: Low
Strengths: Other than it's cheap and easy to produce (compared to a real fighter) NONE!

The main goal of the F-313 was to produce a cheap fighter with stealth characteristics, 2000 km range that required a minimum amount of titanium alloy and the result is the F-313 an Aircraft that will be nothing more than target practice for any Air Defense system

So no there is absolutely nothing new they will learn from this program that they didn't already learn from other programs like the Shafaq, Saegheh, Borhan,...

The main lesson here is as before but they clearly don't want to get it threw their thick heads!

1.Titanium is a requirement for a real fighter program and you can't cheat your way around it.

2. Iran doesn't need 10 different platforms each good at only one thing! Iran needs 1 platform mass produced in large numbers that can be adapted to do 10 different types of things (mission)

Iran needs a medium to heavy twin engine platform capable of being adapted to carryout all types of missions a platform good enough to replace every fighter in Iran's fleet and capable enough to be upgraded and last for decades so stop trying to build light fighters! They are practically useless for a country the size of Iran and the history of the Iran-Iraq war is prof of that fact!

But these are facts and lessons Iranian leaders are clearly unable of accepting!!!

The nightmare of having to maintain so many different types of platforms has clearly taught Iranian commanders nothing so after 30 years if they couldn't get that through their thick heads there is absolutely noting they will learn from this failed, flawed and absorbed F-313 program.

Guys ... Just stop the bs & wait for real qaher !

Remember what I told about the Karrar? You doubted and what happened?

Working on light fighters whether single or twin engine is a waist of time! It's a mistake that Iran keeps on repeating with the Azarakhsh, Saegheh, Shafaq, Borhan, F-313,...

And Iran needs to stop it's fixation with single engine fighters! OK U.S. handed Iranian F-16 over to the Israeli's! good riddance, get over it!!

 

[Rukarl]

We're getting off topic here so this is my first and last comment regarding Iran's fighter plane requirement.

Iran needs something like the F-14. Just look at how successful the F-14 was during the Iraq war.

We need a plane, which is fast (twin engines) and carries very fast, long range missile (like the phoenix) and it also needs a powerful radar. I remember the F-14 was considered a mini AWAC given its powerful radar. This new plane will be part of Iran's integrated air defence with all the radars in Iran feeding it information. Data integration is another key characteristic of next gen planes. If this plane is stealthy with internal bays etc, then that is a big added bonus.

As for Qaher 313, as they themselves have said that was always nothing but designed to be a cheap to produce stealthy, low flying plane for close air combat and for flying low in Persian gulf for anti ship missiles. It's 1:1 will be built next year, as defence minister said, it other purpose was give us experience in aircraft design. IRGC have paces an order for qaher, they may in the end purchase a few but Iran's main fighter project is something else. After su-30 purchase, hopefully we'll see news on development of such a plane.

 

[zestokryl]

How can you know if Qaher is going to be built next year, if even Kowsar is no buit yet ?

Iran should proceed with aerodynamics and other aeronautical reasearch, and try to apply them in UAV-UCAV designs

It should also try to finally complete work with Kowsar and satisfy the need for the jet trainer

Even if iranian aeronautical complex would have been more capable, work in engineering multirole airplane would be a waste of resources

Its much better to focus on core technologies. New materials, sensors, system integration, smart stand off missiles, navigation. Once developed these technologies have enormous applications

I am still convinced IRI should posses its own turboprop with sufficient power and reliability and build UCAV drone featured with serious fire power

 

[Rukarl]

How can you know if Qaher is going to be built next year, if even Kowsar is no buit yet ?

Because, the defence minister said so. And who says Kowsar has not been built? As far as we know they probably built it and are testing it.

Iran should proceed with aerodynamics and other aeronautical reasearch, and try to apply them in UAV-UCAV designs

It should also try to finally complete work with Kowsar and satisfy the need for the jet trainer

Even if iranian aeronautical complex would have been more capable, work in engineering multirole airplane would be a waste of resources

Its much better to focus on core technologies. New materials, sensors, system integration, smart stand off missiles, navigation. Once developed these technologies have enormous applications

I am still convinced IRI should posses its own turboprop with sufficient power and reliability and build UCAV drone featured with serious fire power

Koswar probably still has the priority, however given that IRGC has placed an order for Qaher, they will make a 1:1 version and have it do its taxi flights etc. They have also said Qaher was also a technology demonstrator and used for experience gaining, thus what they learned there they will use in UCAVS for sure.

And yes I agree, they should build a turboprop engine and the defence minister in an interview say after they made the Owj engine, they will build all other engines as well. Including Turbofan, Turboshaft, turboprop.

 

[VEVAK]

How can you know if Qaher is going to be built next year, if even Kowsar is no buit yet ?

Iran should proceed with aerodynamics and other aeronautical reasearch, and try to apply them in UAV-UCAV designs

It should also try to finally complete work with Kowsar and satisfy the need for the jet trainer

Even if iranian aeronautical complex would have been more capable, work in engineering multirole airplane would be a waste of resources

Its much better to focus on core technologies. New materials, sensors, system integration, smart stand off missiles, navigation. Once developed these technologies have enormous applications

I am still convinced IRI should posses its own turboprop with sufficient power and reliability and build UCAV drone featured with serious fire power

Iran needs 1 platform to replace all of it's F-1, F-4, F-5, F-7, F-14 & Su-24's all of whom are 30-50 years old! So no, if done properly not only is not a waist of time and resources but rather a matter of necessity.

Vast majority of Iranian fighter jet won't last another decade and flight time for Iranian pilots is continuing to drop and Iran is currently not capable of producing a viable fighter in that time so they will need to purchase some fighters to give themselves time to produce a viable fighter in the future.

And the Qaher is a none factor it will never go into production they may build one or two just as a technology demonstrator but that's as far as it will go.

As for the Kowsar, it's already being produced. All the tools, facilities & personal that were building the Saegheh are now being used for serial production of the Kowsar

 

[SOHEIL]

Qaher designed to be cheap & easy to produce !

These are my predictions:

Subsonic

able to carry 2 cruise missiles

able to fly near to ground or sea level

& do you remember super etendard?

 

[raptor22]

Qaher designed to be cheap & easy to produce !

These are my predictions:

Subsonic

able to carry 2 cruise missiles

able to fly near to ground or sea level

& do you remember super etendard?

 

[VEVAK]

Qaher designed to be cheap & easy to produce !

These are my predictions:

Subsonic

able to carry 2 cruise missiles

able to fly near to ground or sea level

& do you remember super etendard?

Your bringing up an Aircraft built in the 70's whos engine was built in the 50's!!!

The only thing special about the Super Etendard was it's advanced computer and it's ability to fire the French Excocet Missile which was the best Anti-Ship missiles of it's time! And during the Iran-Iraq war the Super Etendards were always escorted by F-1 Mirage which was the best Air to Air fighter in Saddam's fleet and they would fire their Exocet missiles from miles away and run back home!

And the Etendards engine was far more powerful than the F-313 with swept back wings which gave it better aerodynamics and speed and yes it was considered subsonic but it was basically the fastest subsonic aircraft much faster than the F-313 could ever be

F-313 will have a max speed of ~ 300 MPH at max 400 mph vs the Super Etendard 800 mph


Take a look around the major powers of the world are not going around building light subsonic attack aircrafts with a max speed of 300-400 mph? And according to the project manager of the Q-313 the one they showed was not a mock up it was the real thing so you can stop defending it!

 

[SOHEIL]

Your bringing up an Aircraft built in the 70's whos engine was built in the 50's!!!

The only thing special about the Super Etendard was it's advanced computer and it's ability to fire the French Excocet Missile which was the best Anti-Ship missiles of it's time! And during the Iran-Iraq war the Super Etendards were always escorted by F-1 Mirage which was the best Air to Air fighter in Saddam's fleet and they would fire their Exocet missiles from miles away and run back home!

And the Etendards engine was far more powerful than the F-313 with swept back wings which gave it better aerodynamics and speed and yes it was considered subsonic but it was basically the fastest subsonic aircraft much faster than the F-313 could ever be

F-313 will have a max speed of ~ 300 MPH at max 400 mph vs the Super Etendard 800 mph


Take a look around the major powers of the world are not going around building light subsonic attack aircrafts with a max speed of 300-400 mph? And according to the project manager of the Q-313 the one they showed was not a mock up it was the real thing so you can stop defending it!

Real thing !?

No comments then ...

 

[The SC]

It's simple physics! I don't need to build a prototype to know that the F-313 will never break the sound barrier!

Speed: Subsonic
Payload Capacity: Low
Survivability: Low
Maneuverability: Medium (compared to other subsonic fighters)
Air-Air refueling: None
Durability: Low
Strengths: Other than it's cheap and easy to produce (compared to a real fighter) NONE!

The main goal of the F-313 was to produce a cheap fighter with stealth characteristics, 2000 km range that required a minimum amount of titanium alloy and the result is the F-313 an Aircraft that will be nothing more than target practice for any Air Defense system

So no there is absolutely nothing new they will learn from this program that they didn't already learn from other programs like the Shafaq, Saegheh, Borhan,...

The main lesson here is as before but they clearly don't want to get it threw their thick heads!

1.Titanium is a requirement for a real fighter program and you can't cheat your way around it.

2. Iran doesn't need 10 different platforms each good at only one thing! Iran needs 1 platform mass produced in large numbers that can be adapted to do 10 different types of things (mission)

Iran needs a medium to heavy twin engine platform capable of being adapted to carryout all types of missions a platform good enough to replace every fighter in Iran's fleet and capable enough to be upgraded and last for decades so stop trying to build light fighters! They are practically useless for a country the size of Iran and the history of the Iran-Iraq war is prof of that fact!

But these are facts and lessons Iranian leaders are clearly unable of accepting!!!

The nightmare of having to maintain so many different types of platforms has clearly taught Iranian commanders nothing so after 30 years if they couldn't get that through their thick heads there is absolutely noting they will learn from this failed, flawed and absorbed F-313 program.



Remember what I told about the Karrar? You doubted and what happened?

Working on light fighters whether single or twin engine is a waist of time! It's a mistake that Iran keeps on repeating with the Azarakhsh, Saegheh, Shafaq, Borhan, F-313,...

And Iran needs to stop it's fixation with single engine fighters! OK U.S. handed Iranian F-16 over to the Israeli's! good riddance, get over it!!

The British Harrier too was subsonic! Average 600 mph

It was so successfull that US had its own version made for the Navy..(700 mph)

 

[Hack-Hook]

The British Harrier too was subsonic! Average 600 mph

It was so successfull that US had its own version made for the Navy..(700 mph)

Which is ? As far as I'm aware the backbone of USA navy airplane fleet is f-18.

 

[The SC]

Which is ? As far as I'm aware the backbone of USA navy airplane fleet is f-18.

US: The AV-8B Harrier II
The Harrier was the backbone of both the UK and the US fleet for a long time before the arrival of the F-18 Hornet(Which is known for its tendency of free fall or mechanical problems,at least in Canada where I remeber at least 6 went down on their own, many in Kuwait, 1 just recently and the same in the US)

Here are more details:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_AV-8B_Harrier_II

 

[Hack-Hook]

US: The AV-8B Harrier II
The Harrier was the backbone of both the UK and the US fleet for a long time before the arrival of the F-18 Hornet(Which is known for its tendency of free fall or mechanical problems,at least in Canada where I remeber at least 6 went down on their own, many in Kuwait, 1 just recently and the same in the US)

Here are more details:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_AV-8B_Harrier_II

Well as far as I'm aware USA used f-14 before they use f-18 by the way this is interesting about the reliability.

During its service with the USMC, the Harrier has had an accident rate three times that of the Corps' F/A-18s. As of July 2013, approximately 110 aircraft have been damaged beyond repair since the type entered service in 1985,[164] the first accident occurring in March that year.[165] The AV-8 was dubbed a "widow maker" by some in the military.[100][166] The Los Angeles Times reported in 2003 that the Harrier family had the highest rate of major accidents among military aircraft in service at that time, with 148 accidents and 45 people killed.[167]

 

[VEVAK]

The British Harrier too was subsonic! Average 600 mph

It was so successfull that US had its own version made for the Navy..(700 mph)

Appels and Oranges Harrier is a V/STOL Aircraft with thrust vectoring! Only the U.S. Marines still operate them and they only use them for close combat missions after Air Superiority and full control of Air Space has been gained!

The Royal Navy & Air Force have both retired them because they are nothing but a waist of space compared to the Typhoon so they are not even worth the hassle of maintenance when you have a Multirole fighter like the Typhoon.
Even The Indian Navy has retired it's Jump jets!

And yes the Harrier was a successful platform during it's day but it's success came from it's V/STOL capability and being the most successful vectored thrust platform of it's time and that's what made up for it's lack of speed.

F-117 is also a subsonic Aircraft and was very successful until countries leaned to counter that and the Aircrafts low speed, maneuverability and inability to defend it's self against areal threats turned into a major weakness.