Iranian Ground Forces | News and Equipment

[Hack-Hook]

Please read this on how there are some uncanny resemblances between S300 and Bavar which proves that there had to have been some foreign Russian help:

Analysis of Iran’s Bavar 373 SAM: Indigenous Design or S-300 Copycat?

On August 21, 2019, the Iranian Defense Ministry revealed the “Bavar 373” long-range surface-to-air missile (SAM) system, claiming that both design and production are completely indigenous. Iranian President Rouhani and Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) Commander Hossein Salami were present

t-intell.com

you and the writer of the article are on another level
from the samee article

The Bavar 373’s dual-band sensor suite seems to be the system’s most valuable asset. The originality of the Bavar’s TEL and the claimed operational performance of the Sayyad-4 SAM are nevertheless disputable.

HOT VERTICAL LAUNCH/SQUARE CANISTERS. While the Bavar is widely believed to be a S-300PMU2-inspired design, the system’s rectangular launch tubes more closely resemble the M901 launcher unit of the Patriot Advanced Capability (PAC)-2 configuration. Like the Patriot, the Bavar 373 uses a hot launch technique instead of the cold ejection typical for Russian SAM launchers.

then the writer find where bavar copied S-300v

The Bavar does, however, bear similarity with the S-300 when it comes to the full vertical launch position. In contrast, the American M901 fires from a 70 degree angle, a design feature copied by another Iran air defence system

and again he find a similarity in sensors i bolded it

SENSOR SUITE. For the public demonstration, the Bavar 373 was augmented by two AESA radars, one engagement and one acquisition radar. This configuration is similar to the Russian S-300. The MIM-140 Patriot uses only one radar. Both of the Iranian radars are unique in their design and show little to no similarity with their American or Russian counterparts. it is possible that Iran’s decade-long effort to develop AESA radars has finally paid off. Due to the AESA’s frequency-agility and low-probability of intercept, the Bavar’s radars are – at least in theory – highly resilient to jamming and anti-radiation missiles.

intrestingly the writer forget Bavar-373 use two AESA radar while even S400 use a reflection type of space feeded phased-array AKA PESA and another transmission type of space feeded phased array antenna AKA again PESA
even S-500 rely on a PESA for detecting targets
then it claim these two are the same

then the genius writer of the article claim

MULTI-MISSION. The Bavar’s diverse sensor and kinetic solutions will enable the Iranian air defence units to conduct both anti-aircraft and missile defence missions. The Sayyad-4, in particular, was developed to intercept large radar-cross section targets at the engagement envelope edge, e.g. ballistic missiles in lower endo-atmospheric space. However, doubts remain whether the Sayyad-4 has the manoeuvring capability to prosecute evasive ballistic missiles in their terminal phase. The Sayyad-4’s demonstrated thrust vectoring control is only used for initial trajectory alignment.

yes , he question trust vectoring capabilities of Sayyad-4 because iran only showed it at the time of firing it not 200km away from launcher

then it come and say Sayyad-4 is copy of 48N6E/E2 . for the comparison here are the missiles

you guys can decide for yourself , it seems the writer is a little blind

then the fool come and claim 3rd of khordad is equal to Buk and made the hilarious claim that Bavar is copy of multiple foreign system without providing any evidence , while its own article prove it otherwise


and at the end the usual western media response about any iranian achievement

It took Iran more than 10 years of design flops, development limbo, and dire financial conditions to produce the Bavar 373. There is no information on how many systems exist and will be produced. It is also unknown whether Iran is even able to mass-produce the system and maintain it. As the country remains under though political and economic pressure from the international community, Tehran frequently exaggerates its military capabilities for foreign policy and deterrence reasons.

somebody ask him how long it take for russia to build s-400 or S-500 or USA to build Patriot or Israel to build arrow

Im a Muslim, I dont drink! So you just made takfir on me...so have you opened my heart or are you playing God now? Choose your next moves carefully because youre on thin ice. Unless of course you dont care what God thinks? About as much as I expect from an inept pajeet troll. Yeah any patriotic Iranian would take offense at being called Russian, and I have noticed an uptick in your saltiness after me calling you out as a pajeet. Seems its your nerves which have caused you to pucker up.

I told you who is the real muslim , not to drink or fast or pray is the easy part , go and read those part of Quran I told you to read and sit and think how much you are like what ir describe

Whats wrong with buying Russian when the alternative is nothing. We know youre a western loving Russophobe Palestinian, but whats that got to do with Iran? Iran should be looking to the east more so than the west because China wasnt the ones who have staged coups in Iran or shared weapons and intelligence to kill Iranians. I made this point to you in another thread and here you are trolling your garbage here. These so called unfavourable deals have made Iran as the biggest economy in the region, surpassing Turkey and Saudi Arabia? Why does this burn you? Iran is closer to Russia and China more than ever and this will be a much needed lifeline if the West, who hates Iran and Iranian people's guts, were to attack Iran. You'd like to see that wouldn't you?

problem is there is far better alternative in air defence system and thats our own airdefence system .

 

[TheImmortal]

problem is there is far better alternative in air defence system and thats our own airdefence system .

Iran Bavar is expensive to build and expensive to operate with its radars on.

Last time we saw Bavar it had changed designed to a S-350V like mast in the TEL that they tried to hide.

There is at least two versions of Bavar (maybe 3) the one we saw officially revealed with the more expensive layout and the cheaper Bavar-350V with the radar mast in its TEL.

Still don’t know production rate of Bavar.

We have seen mass production line of 3rd Khordad with 5+ Tels being built (wether real rate production or photo op for psych ops who knows). For Bavar, we know little to nothing.

When Rahbar goes to Mashhad we see S-300 units travel with him, not Bavar which is very telling.

Haven’t seen a deployed Bavar unit via geo sat yet either.

 

[BlessedKingOfLonging]

Iran Bavar is expensive to build and expensive to operate with its radars on.

Last time we saw Bavar it had changed designed to a S-350V like mast in the TEL that they tried to hide.

There is at least two versions of Bavar (maybe 3) the one we saw officially revealed with the more expensive layout and the cheaper Bavar-350V with the radar mast in its TEL.

Still don’t know production rate of Bavar.

We have seen mass production line of 3rd Khordad with 5+ Tels being built (wether real rate production or photo op for psych ops who knows). For Bavar, we know little to nothing.

When Rahbar goes to Mashhad we see S-300 units travel with him, not Bavar which is very telling.

Haven’t seen a deployed Bavar unit via geo sat yet either.

I think they're developing a new missile for it, which is why production is halted.

 

[TheImmortal]

I think they're developing a new missile for it, which is why production is halted.

Production of LR missile has zero bearing on the rest of production items. Will still be same launch canister and supporting equipment unless they plan to build an entirely new radar (unlikely AESA aren’t cheap to design).

It’s like stopping F-35 production because you are building a new BVR missile for it.

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

you and the writer of the article are on another level
from the samee article

then the writer find where bavar copied S-300v

and again he find a similarity in sensors i bolded it

intrestingly the writer forget Bavar-373 use two AESA radar while even S400 use a reflection type of space feeded phased-array AKA PESA and another transmission type of space feeded phased array antenna AKA again PESA
even S-500 rely on a PESA for detecting targets
then it claim these two are the same

then the genius writer of the article claim

yes , he question trust vectoring capabilities of Sayyad-4 because iran only showed it at the time of firing it not 200km away from launcher

then it come and say Sayyad-4 is copy of 48N6E/E2 . for the comparison here are the missiles

you guys can decide for yourself , it seems the writer is a little blind

then the fool come and claim 3rd of khordad is equal to Buk and made the hilarious claim that Bavar is copy of multiple foreign system without providing any evidence , while its own article prove it otherwise


and at the end the usual western media response about any iranian achievement


somebody ask him how long it take for russia to build s-400 or S-500 or USA to build Patriot or Israel to build arrow


I told you who is the real muslim , not to drink or fast or pray is the easy part , go and read those part of Quran I told you to read and sit and think how much you are like what ir describe


problem is there is far better alternative in air defence system and thats our own airdefence system .

Take it up with the author, the fact is he has highlighted glaring similarities between S300 and Bavar. However the author admits that Irans ability to make AESA is of its own doing with no outside help, which is great!

I have read your quotes, and I have posted the refutations! Why dont you, instead of arguing like a headless chicken, go and look at the refutations I gave you! Here Ill post them again:

1) Sorry but what has Surah 6:122 have anything to do with me. It's talking non-believers who are proud of their actions despite being in darkness. Is this proof for you or for me?!

2) Surah hujurat verse 12 states that SOME suspicion is sin. These are suspicions which have no evidence. However you have made transgenderism halaal which is enough evidence to raise valid suspicion. Im also not backbiting you since im telling it you directly, and im not spying on you. So again you have misapplied the verse!

3) Surah 2 verse 128 has no relevance to this discussion. It is a duah of Abraham about acceptance of their building the Kabaa and repentance.

4-9) surah furqan 63. First of all, yes I can be harsh, but I would argue that I am being harsh to the ignorant one, not the other way around. And you do not use words of peace either! However if you read verses 64-74, do you do any of these? Do you stand in the night praying tahajjud and al-witr? Do you listen to the Quran when it clearly tells you homosexuality and changing the creation are the works of the devil? Stop with this holier than thou attitude!

10) have you done any of these? How do you know I haven't striven for the cause of Allah to the best of my ability? Have you given your life and wealth to Allah?

11) 2:154 is about the shaheed and how they are alive. What has this got to do with akhlagh or fighter jets?! This is why you are not fit to quote the Quran or make tafsir! All my knowledge comes from scholars and people of knowledge as best I can. Youre randomly throwing verses without understanding the meanings and just going by what you feel!

12-13) trading with non-believers does not mean you take them as awliya! You dont even know what awliya means! This is what countries like Saudi Arabia are doing where they have US bases on their land keeping them in power, who then use these weapons on other Muslims. How is that the same as what Iran is doing? Stop slandering Iran! The Muslims traded with non-believers during the time of the Prophet and the Rashidun Khalifa, so it is halaal! Iran is also trying to have good relations with other Muslim nations but they dont want it because they are under the awliya of the West! Shame on you for misusing the Quran like this!

14) this entire forum is al-laghw! You are guilty of al-laghw every single day! Anything that is not rememberance of Allah or to do with matters other the the deen can be considered as some kind of Al-laghw! However me reminding you that you are wrong to say transgenderism is halaal for the pleasure of Allah is not Al-laghw but it is an act of ebaadat!

15) this verse is about usury. Again irrelevant to the topic!

16) This is about Muslims keeping their promise. Again irrelevant to the topic!

17) verse 2 is about divorce and verse 3 is about tawakkul on Allah alone! Do you have tawakkul upon Allah alone?!

As we can see most of your verses were either irrelevant or the ones that had some relevance could easily be applied to your conduct.

Most of them are irrelevant of the topic and the few that were relevant you yourself are guilty of!

Well when I see bavar used in a notable theatre of war then we can put such claims to the test! Until now Iran is using s300 and there is no evidence of bavar, maybe we have to believe that it is there LOL!

 

[BlessedKingOfLonging]

Production of LR missile has zero bearing on the rest of production items. Will still be same launch canister and supporting equipment unless they plan to build an entirely new radar (unlikely AESA aren’t cheap to design).

It’s like stopping F-35 production because you are building a new BVR missile for it.

Actually, I think you may have answered why it's not in mass production.

AESA radars...unless they manage to set up a cost-effective GaN module production line, it will prove difficult to field too many of those.

 

[shadihassan28]

Guys if you can, please stop chasing new users away and avoid being aggressive, it would be nice to get more new members instead of losing them, and more importantly if someone is annoying you, just put them on your ignore list or something.

I actually decided to stay on and press ignore honestly I like your style and the way you talk thanks for encouraging me to stay from now if I don’t like it I can just ignore I didn’t know I had that option thank you

 

[Hack-Hook]

The burden of proof is on you since you made the positive claim that Bavar is equal or better than s400.

what proof better than that S-400 uses PESA radar while Bavar uses AESA radar.

So you have no problem if Iran were to purchase S500? If you say no, then youre Russian hypocrite, if you say yes, then you obviously think Iran has the tech to match the s500 which would require you to show evidence (which you wont be able to!).

I have no problem with iran buy S-500 if it come with its best missiles otherwise its sensors are not better than Bavar , if they want to sell it without best missile it will be an S-400 with better sensor . bavar already is that and so we don't need a dumbed down s-500

Mig-29s are not in the same league as a Su-35, from what we see Iran is not even reverse engineering Russian jets because their technology is so far behind...which is why Iran is stuck at reverse engineering old F5s and not really progressing fast enough. To deny this, which you are, shows you are the one setting Iran up for failure.

in fact iran so called reverse engineered F-5 are better than Mig-29 we have and i don't answer anymore on why we don't need Su-35 to a salesperson of Sukhoi .as we explained why flanker is useless against modern aircrafts many times if you were able to shake your slave mentality you would have understood it.
you guys are so hard trying to sell outdated sukhoi to iran because you knew the only thing held iran back from producing its own aircraft is the engine and that will be solved in next 5 year if something extraordinary don't happen.

How does trading with people mean I want to be blonde hair and blue eyed?! Youre the one who is a libtard hellbent on raising a western rainbow flag in Iran and keep simping for western tech over more accessible Russian ones.

again your lack of ability to understand and make acusation that every single person in the forum knew you can't prove as i never ever advertised buying anything from west or west in fact you guys haras me because i always criticised iran when it buyed anything from west or east and olways supported domestic products

1) i never made a single claim about Iranian scientists, show me a single comment made about scientists! However it is a reality that Russian and US military tech is better than ours. Nothing to be ashamed of, it is a reality that even many western and eastern powers themsleves accept with regards to their own domestic military goods. Stop being a little arrogant man-child. Your small dick energy isnt helping anyone!

you made you said iran dont have intelligence to build anything and you said it many time , when i say you are not man enough this is why , you deny what you said , you are not man enough to stand by what you post
as a matter of fact you question iran scientist in this exact same post let refresh your memory

So shut your mouth when Iran is trying to purchase something that it will never dream of making in a century or two! Your persistant dismissal of Iran buying these jets is proof enough, and you say that Iran has better than it in its inventory! Everyone is a witness to what you say!

i never said all achievements are foreign but it is a fact that other members who are even more patriotic than me have told you that Iran has used foreign equipment to base their domestic products on. Without it they wouldn't be were they are today. Why reinvent the wheel when it is already there?! This is a fact! Cope!

and i said bring it the achievement and tell us which system its based on , i proved that s-300 is not a copy of russian design , i proved Ghadir radar is not copy of Rezonance and many other thing bring what you say i said was not copied from russia but actually was coopy of russian design we recieved

4) everytime someone speaks about buying anything Russian, you keep saying that western this and that is better...ignoring the fact that Iran cant buy western goods, probably ever again. So you want Iran to either be 100% self sufficient, which you know is unrealistic in any reasonable timeframe, or Iran bends over for the libtard west so you can open a brothel in Iran. This is the power of deductive reasoning which you lack!

actually when you guys promoted russian aircraft i pointed out that chinese aircraft are better not western one and thenn said the money to import foreign aircraft must go into developing our turbofan engine and kowsar aircraft. suggest you pay more attention

First of all, someone who thinks it is halal to be transgender is not a Muslim in my eyes and should not be interpreting Quran for anyone.

first of all , i follow my Mareja not you and all of shia clerics except of 1 or two allowed it , and nobody care about your limited understanding of islam .

A lot of the times, these rulings about adab are for believers (which I dont think you are) and non-believers who are mannered themselves. I dont have to be well mannered to someone who is changing the ruling of Islam to please his desires or is a hypocrite in their own disgusting akhlagh towards me! In fact I can be the same to them! Go look up qisaas!

the text is clear., the manner of holy prophet is clear

Islam is based on 5 pillars, 1) Kalima or shahada, 2) Pray 5 times a day, 3) Ramadan 4) zakat 5) Hajj once in a lifetime. You have to believe in these 5 and do them with Ihsaan otherwise your Islam is non-existant or very weak.

islam based on 5 pilar and 10 Ancillary for me . if you don't believe in those pilars , you are not muslim , if you don't practice those 10 practice your islam id week

Pilar of faith

1. Tawhid (monotheism: belief in the oneness of God)
2. Adl (divine justice: belief in God's justice)
3. Nubuwwah (prophethood)
4. Imamah (succession to Muhammad)
5. Mi'ad (the day of judgment and the resurrection)

the Ancillaries of the Faith

1. Salah: 5 daily prayers
2. Sawm: Fasting Ramadan
3. Zakat: Almsgiving, similar to Sunni Islam, it applies to money, cattle, silver, gold, dates, raisins, wheat, and barley.
4. Khums: Khums is paid to the Imams; indirectly to poor and needy people.
5. Hajj: Pilgrimage to Mecca
6. Jihad: Striving for the cause of Allah
7. Invite to good
8. Forbidding wrong
9. Tawalla: Expressing love towards good.
10. Tabarra: Expressing disassociation and hatred towards evil.

2) Surah hujurat verse 12 states that SOME suspicion is sin. These are suspicions which have no evidence. However you have made transgenderism halaal which is enough evidence to raise valid suspicion. Im also not backbiting you since im telling it you directly, and im not spying on you. So again you have misapplied the verse!

I assure you I don't have credential to made a decree

3) Surah 2 verse 128 has no relevance to this discussion. It is a duah of Abraham about acceptance of their building the Kabaa and repentance.

its surrendering to God , not russia so it has relevance to the discussio

4-9) surah furqan 63. First of all, yes I can be harsh, but I would argue that I am being harsh to the ignorant one, not the other way around. And you do not use words of peace either! However if you read verses 64-74, do you do any of these? Do you stand in the night praying tahajjud and al-witr? Do you listen to the Quran when it clearly tells you homosexuality and changing the creation are the works of the devil? Stop with this holier than thou attitude!

my vocabulary is clean , never used a word that i can't use every where , always were polite . and there is not a single word in quran and hadith about being transgender. and thepoint of the verese is to be such against everyone. also i never ever claimed i'm only muslim and the other person is not . something you did many time

10) have you done any of these? How do you know I haven't striven for the cause of Allah to the best of my ability? Have you given your life and wealth to Allah?

11) 2:154 is about the shaheed and how they are alive. What has this got to do with akhlagh or fighter jets?! This is why you are not fit to quote the Quran or make tafsir! All my knowledge comes from scholars and people of knowledge as best I can. Youre randomly throwing verses without understanding the meanings and just going by what you feel!

15) this verse is about usury. Again irrelevant to the topic!

16) This is about Muslims keeping their promise. Again irrelevant to the topic!

these are part of what a muslim must be and in that post i pointed them , the one you must think about i named separately.

17) verse 2 is about divorce and verse 3 is about tawakkul on Allah alone! Do you have tawakkul upon Allah alone?!

certainly i don't have tavakkol on west and east

When Rahbar goes to Mashhad we see S-300 units travel with him, not Bavar which is very telling.

Haven’t seen a deployed Bavar unit via geo sat yet either.

I said previously bavar was not mass produced because it made no sense doing so in previous form , by incotporating the new 300+km missile now it make sense to mass produce it and then there won't be any need for sending an s-300 with him whereever he go

 

[BlessedKingOfLonging]

what proof better than that S-400 uses PESA radar while Bavar uses AESA radar.

I have no problem with iran buy S-500 if it come with its best missiles otherwise its sensors are not better than Bavar , if they want to sell it without best missile it will be an S-400 with better sensor . bavar already is that and so we don't need a dumbed down s-500

in fact iran so called reverse engineered F-5 are better than Mig-29 we have and i don't answer anymore on why we don't need Su-35 to a salesperson of Sukhoi .as we explained why flanker is useless against modern aircrafts many times if you were able to shake your slave mentality you would have understood it.
you guys are so hard trying to sell outdated sukhoi to iran because you knew the only thing held iran back from producing its own aircraft is the engine and that will be solved in next 5 year if something extraordinary don't happen.

again your lack of ability to understand and make acusation that every single person in the forum knew you can't prove as i never ever advertised buying anything from west or west in fact you guys haras me because i always criticised iran when it buyed anything from west or east and olways supported domestic products

you made you said iran dont have intelligence to build anything and you said it many time , when i say you are not man enough this is why , you deny what you said , you are not man enough to stand by what you post
as a matter of fact you question iran scientist in this exact same post let refresh your memory


and i said bring it the achievement and tell us which system its based on , i proved that s-300 is not a copy of russian design , i proved Ghadir radar is not copy of Rezonance and many other thing bring what you say i said was not copied from russia but actually was coopy of russian design we recieved

actually when you guys promoted russian aircraft i pointed out that chinese aircraft are better not western one and thenn said the money to import foreign aircraft must go into developing our turbofan engine and kowsar aircraft. suggest you pay more attention

first of all , i follow my Mareja not you and all of shia clerics except of 1 or two allowed it , and nobody care about your limited understanding of islam .

the text is clear., the manner of holy prophet is clear

islam based on 5 pilar and 10 Ancillary for me . if you don't believe in those pilars , you are not muslim , if you don't practice those 10 practice your islam id week

Pilar of faith

1. Tawhid (monotheism: belief in the oneness of God)
2. Adl (divine justice: belief in God's justice)
3. Nubuwwah (prophethood)
4. Imamah (succession to Muhammad)
5. Mi'ad (the day of judgment and the resurrection)

the Ancillaries of the Faith

1. Salah: 5 daily prayers
2. Sawm: Fasting Ramadan
3. Zakat: Almsgiving, similar to Sunni Islam, it applies to money, cattle, silver, gold, dates, raisins, wheat, and barley.
4. Khums: Khums is paid to the Imams; indirectly to poor and needy people.
5. Hajj: Pilgrimage to Mecca
6. Jihad: Striving for the cause of Allah
7. Invite to good
8. Forbidding wrong
9. Tawalla: Expressing love towards good.
10. Tabarra: Expressing disassociation and hatred towards evil.

I assure you I don't have credential to made a decree

its surrendering to God , not russia so it has relevance to the discussio

my vocabulary is clean , never used a word that i can't use every where , always were polite . and there is not a single word in quran and hadith about being transgender. and thepoint of the verese is to be such against everyone. also i never ever claimed i'm only muslim and the other person is not . something you did many time


these are part of what a muslim must be and in that post i pointed them , the one you must think about i named separately.

certainly i don't have tavakkol on west and east


I said previously bavar was not mass produced because it made no sense doing so in previous form , by incotporating the new 300+km missile now it make sense to mass produce it

Say what you will, Flanker airframes are really agile. What guarantee is there that Iran can build airframe that are as nimble or more?

 

[Hack-Hook]

Take it up with the author, the fact is he has highlighted glaring similarities between S300 and Bavar. However the author admits that Irans ability to make AESA is of its own doing with no outside help, which is great!

the glaring similarity is both use two radar and both fire the miissile vertically

Actually, I think you may have answered why it's not in mass production.

AESA radars...unless they manage to set up a cost-effective GaN module production line, it will prove difficult to field too many of those.

3rd of khordad also use an Aesa radar

 

[BlessedKingOfLonging]

3rd of khordad also use an Aesa radar

But of a different kind, right? I don't doubt most of the budget is going into building 3rd of Khordad AESAs.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Say what you will, Flanker airframes are really agile. What guarantee is there that Iran can build airframe that are as nimble or more?

they are not as agile as modern missiles , what is important todays is radars and modern electronic not how agile you are

But of a different kind, right? I don't doubt most of the budget is going into building 3rd of Khordad AESAs.

I believe building more compact 3rd of khordad AESA radar is harder

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

the glaring similarity is both use two radar and both fire the miissile vertically


3rd of khordad also use an Aesa radar

Well seeing as Iran never made such innovations before then by power of deductive reasoning it had to have come from a foreign Russian idea. Still waiting for the real time data of the Bavar system, wake me up when you do!

 

[Hack-Hook]

Well seeing as Iran never made such innovations before then by power of deductive reasoning it had to have come from a foreign Russian idea. Still waiting for the real time data of the Bavar system, wake me up when you do!

and from where russia get it ?
it come from redearch and developement
and exactly what real time data you want

Also way to go at ignoring my comments on your list of verses! Lets agree not to make this a religious issue because neither of us are qualified and we could be sinning, definitely for your sake as well as mine!

post 3758 if more post don't get deleted

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

what proof better than that S-400 uses PESA radar while Bavar uses AESA radar.

That is not data from a real time scenario. Its just theory. Like I said wake me up when you get it!

I have no problem with iran buy S-500 if it come with its best missiles otherwise its sensors are not better than Bavar , if they want to sell it without best missile it will be an S-400 with better sensor . bavar already is that and so we don't need a dumbed down s-500

in fact iran so called reverse engineered F-5 are better than Mig-29 we have and i don't answer anymore on why we don't need Su-35 to a salesperson of Sukhoi .as we explained why flanker is useless against modern aircrafts many times if you were able to shake your slave mentality you would have understood it.
you guys are so hard trying to sell outdated sukhoi to iran because you knew the only thing held iran back from producing its own aircraft is the engine and that will be solved in next 5 year if something extraordinary don't happen.

Again no evidence that S-500 is like bavar. This is crazy talk and would require some sort of evidence to back this up. In fairness there isnt a whole lot of data about S-500 so I dont why you were so quick to agree to us buying this, seems you get erections over Russian equipment as well! What a hypocrite!

Again we need data that a modded F-5 is any better than a modded Mig-29! Where is your dog fighting data? Surely these two fought during the Iran-Iraq war, no? There hasnt been any combat between equivalent western jets and Su-35, so we can't say for sure they will be a failure. Your prejudices is causing you to have a knee-jerk reaction. An Su-35 is definitely a step up from an F-5 or Mig-29!

It is the best we can get and would help us improve our own R+D! Otherwise we will have to wait 100 years till we make our own 4th Gen plane, by which time it may be the Day of Judgement already! Be practical!

Its not just engine, it is radar as well as airframe agility. That guy who is banned now had a point in that Su-35 is very agile and has only been shot down twice in Ukraine, whilst having air superiority. Dont be so quick to dismiss this. You cant win a war with air defence and radars alone.

again your lack of ability to understand and make acusation that every single person in the forum knew you can't prove as i never ever advertised buying anything from west or west in fact you guys haras me because i always criticised iran when it buyed anything from west or east and olways supported domestic products

Then stop bringing up western products everytime Iran wants to purchase something. You're shooting yourself in the foot if Iran wants to shut the doors to any kind of foreign procurement especially in its current condition. This is why I say you are setting Iran for failure and you have an agenda. Your desire for Iran to be 100% self reliant in such a threatening time is fake and contrived!

you made you said iran dont have intelligence to build anything and you said it many time , when i say you are not man enough this is why , you deny what you said , you are not man enough to stand by what you post
as a matter of fact you question iran scientist in this exact same post let refresh your memory

First of all you cant lecture me about "clean vocabulary" as though you're saint when you question my manhood and make false slanderous accusations. This is why I say youre a hypocrite and should not throw stones from glass houses.

Show me a single post where I say "Iran doesn't have intelligence to make anything"! If youre a believing person you either show the evidence, or retract what you just said, and if you dont lets do mubahala to Allah to curse the person who is lying! Do you agree?

actually when you guys promoted russian aircraft i pointed out that chinese aircraft are better not western one and thenn said the money to import foreign aircraft must go into developing our turbofan engine and kowsar aircraft. suggest you pay more attention

Has China offered her jets to Iran, or anyone for that matter. Use some logic please. The rumours about J-10 are nonesense since Iran would be mad to turn these down, so I dont believe this. Money and time we dont have?! Are you khar na'she again? And you have compared western jets as though we have the choice. Please pay attention!

first of all , i follow my Mareja not you and all of shia clerics except of 1 or two allowed it , and nobody care about your limited understanding of islam .

the text is clear., the manner of holy prophet is clear

It can be argued that shia clerics have also said things that are not only limited but also straight up kufr when you go back to the scriptures. I love how you then speak about what Allah and his Messenger says, yet reject all the Sunnah which the majority of Muslims adhere to, ignore the parts about Allah hating homosexuality, the part in the Quran which talks about Satan wanting to change creation, and Muhammad hating effeminate men and masculine women!

Who cares what your leaders say. I come with qala Allah qala Rasoolullah, youre coming with qala Sheikh Felan ibn al Felan! Thats the difference between me and you!

islam based on 5 pilar and 10 Ancillary for me . if you don't believe in those pilars , you are not muslim , if you don't practice those 10 practice your islam id week

Pilar of faith

1. Tawhid (monotheism: belief in the oneness of God)
2. Adl (divine justice: belief in God's justice)
3. Nubuwwah (prophethood)
4. Imamah (succession to Muhammad)
5. Mi'ad (the day of judgment and the resurrection)

the Ancillaries of the Faith

1. Salah: 5 daily prayers
2. Sawm: Fasting Ramadan
3. Zakat: Almsgiving, similar to Sunni Islam, it applies to money, cattle, silver, gold, dates, raisins, wheat, and barley.
4. Khums: Khums is paid to the Imams; indirectly to poor and needy people.
5. Hajj: Pilgrimage to Mecca
6. Jihad: Striving for the cause of Allah
7. Invite to good
8. Forbidding wrong
9. Tawalla: Expressing love towards good.
10. Tabarra: Expressing disassociation and hatred towards evil.

Yes we will agree to disagree on imamiya, because youre ignoring the children of Imam Hasan (RA)! Pretty similar except they are in different places. Also Khums is sadaqa jariya not equal to zakat. However apart from this your lists are part of Islam and one would be a kafir if they didnt believe in this. However if you dont pray at all knowing it is haram then this could be kufr as well, not just weak imaan! So if someone believed in tawheed but didnt practice it then that would nullify their tawheed because practicing anything other than tawheed is kufr. So your list does commit acts of irja in some places.

Also wala and bara has conditions, just because a kaafir does something good they are still a kaafir, likewise just because a Muslim does something bad, their bad deed still needs to be rectified. This doesnt mean we can love homosexuality or transgenderism because you like some gay people you met lol. Have some gheyrat for your deen!

I assure you I don't have credential to made a decree

Who cares, you and your imams are suspect and should be refuted!

its surrendering to God , not russia so it has relevance to the discussio

This is a simpleton way of thinking, a true miskeen! You can still trade with other countries on an equal level and still have tawakkul with Allah! So when the Prophet would trade with the non-believers he didnt have tawakkul of Allah, or when he made treaties with them he didnt have tawakkul?! Listen to what you're saying, youre willing to throw your own Prophet under the bus like that!

my vocabulary is clean , never used a word that i can't use every where , always were polite . and there is not a single word in quran and hadith about being transgender. and thepoint of the verese is to be such against everyone. also i never ever claimed i'm only muslim and the other person is not . something you did many time

This is also another lie! You have been slanderous to me when I said it is okay to buy Russian goods and you said I am their agent! So I replied to you in kind. Youre not innocent here and you tone has been far from polite. The Quran also doesnt speak about cocaine or fossil feul pollution! That would be ridiculous to expect such a thing! However the ijtihad is clear that changing the creation from man to women through surgery because you feel different so that you can sleep with same gender is totally haraam! Your shuyookh are borderline kaafir if they made such ijtihad since the Quran and Hadeeth is clear! And so are you if you believe it!

these are part of what a muslim must be and in that post i pointed them , the one you must think about i named separately.

certainly i don't have tavakkol on west and east

Well I believe these too, so youre basically building a strawman argument?! We have enough to talk about without bringing this up!

Trading with people doesnt mean you worship them, mubtadee!