Iran unveils hypersonic weapon 'Fattah'

[Xerxes22]

Propaganda takes precedence over facts and logic in this age. Some countries will develop a weapon system and hype it as being unstoppable. Kinzhal was unstoppable as well.

Well, God dislike big boasts and "arrogance" of any side will be checked at some point.



Certainly....

Jealous much ?

But I understand to be honest. After all Pakistan is in a disarray isn’t it. A lil nudge from Washington and the parliament betrays the elected PM. Sad indeed.

 

[aziqbal]

Congratulations Iran and this is indeed big news

I wonder if Russia has been sharing the Hypersonic technology with Iran

this can penetrate the deep underground bunkers where the Israeli F35 are based and basically its impossible to track, engage and intercept a hypersonic missile

I wonder why Pakistan has not worked on this technology

 

[LeGenD]

basically its impossible to track, engage and intercept a hypersonic missile

Only in minds of those who are brainwashed, ignorant, or refuse to see reality.

US has demonstrated the capability to track and engage MACH 20+ ICBMs in midcourse phase of the flight with its incredibly sophisticated spaceborne surveillance networks and homeland defenses, let alone MRBM-class threats. US is not sitting idle but doing its homework.

 

[Homajon]

Yes.

American military technology updates and general discussion

Learn about the Stryker Family of Vehicles in following videos:

defence.pk

Also see the links shared below.



You want to find out the hard way like Russians?

Ukraine and the Kinzhal: Don’t believe the hypersonic hype

Reporting of Ukraine’s shootdown of Russian hypersonics tells only a partial truth. Russian hypersonic missiles do not yet pose the dire threat to Western interests.

www.brookings.edu

Russian hypersonic missile scientists arrested on treason charges

The Kremlin said Wednesday that three scientists face “very serious accusations” after a rare public outcry that comes as Ukraine claimed it had shot many of the missiles down.

www.nbcnews.com

As pointed out in here, Allah Almighty dislikes arrogance.

Well, what I see there is very thin evidence.
First of all, I don't see any proof of many downed Kinzhals.
And concerning the one that was downed, it maybe is a Kinzhal, but it maybe also be an Iskendar (far more likely). But even if it is indeed Kinzhal, if still the vast majority are not intercepted, then this single one was very likely a lucky hit and doesn't proof anything.
So sorry, that is not convincing....

 

[LeGenD]

Well, what I see there is very thin evidence.
First of all, I don't see any proof of many downed Kinzhals.
And concerning the one that was downed, it maybe is a Kinzhal, but it maybe also be an Iskendar (far more likely). But even if it is indeed Kinzhal, if still the vast majority are not intercepted, then this single one was very likely a lucky hit and doesn't proof anything.
So sorry, that is not convincing....

Since Russian forces are trying to destroy Patriot systems, Ukrainian authorities have strongly discouraged Ukrainian nationals from documenting Patriot intercepts because Russians can benefit from well-documented information released on the web.

Ukraine Situation Report: Video Of Air Defenses Prompts Arrests

Ukrainian officials are trying to keep imagery of their air defenses off social media after the massive attack on Kyiv.

www.thedrive.com

Kinzhal is very similar to Iskander but launched through a jet fighter. The missile that intercepted over Kyiv on 04-05-23 is identified as Russian Kh-47M2 Kinzhal by those who understand these technologies well enough:

"The three pictures of the wreckage released on 5 May were identified by Ukraine Weapons Tracker as portions of the unitary warhead assembly used in both Kinzhal and in the Iskander family of ballistic missiles. Two pictures showed the rear of the assembly (a blackened hollow cylinder), while the third picture showed the front of the assembly, with a crack. The 10 May footage and photographs showed more angles of the unitary warhead assembly from the Kinzhal, along with several other components including a tailfin." - Dagger Fallen

Many of the Twitter Experts are idiots on the other hand.

Patriot systems have shot down a large number of airborne threats over Kyiv. Information comes out in this form:

Go to Kyiv and find out yourself otherwise.

 

[Philosopher]

@LeGenD

Shooing down a ballistic missile is on paper relatively straight forward, even if it travels at mach 100. If you can detect it and predict its trajectory then you can in theory shoot it down.

How are you exactly planning to do that today with a hypersonic glide vehicle/ a missile whose warhead is constantly manoeuvring via pseudo random manoeuvres? You appear to be under the impression that US being able to shoot down ICBMs means it can currently shoot down systems like Fattah. These are different systems entirely.

We should not confuse systems like Fattah with khinzal. Khanzal is in reality 'just' an airborne ballistic missile, it's in a way just an air launched islander. Missiles like Fattah are a completely different animal. This is even assuming these claims about them downing khinzal are even true, which I am dubious of. But if they shoot them down, I am not surprised, it is more or less a 'ballistic' missiles which patriots can shoot down. Khinzal is not avangard, which is a 'true' hypersonic weapon in the way people talk about these systems today.

Do I think these missiles can never be countered? of course they can. Point is, US, or anyone else for that matter does not currently possess the means to reliably counter these systems and will not for a least the next 10 years. The issue with countering these systems is even on paper it's hard to come up with a way.

 

[aziqbal]

Only in minds of those who are brainwashed, ignorant, or refuse to see reality.

US has demonstrated the capability to track and engage MACH 20+ ICBMs in midcourse phase of the flight with its incredibly sophisticated spaceborne surveillance networks and homeland defenses, let alone MRBM-class threats. US is not sitting idle but doing its homework.

what a stupid thing to say but then again you do that alot

you know more than me on this subject ? really?

or maybe you are foolish enough to believe that US patriot did down the Kinzhal missile

if you know so much can you tell me how many live successful hypersonic intercepts Israel has done? or even the US with the Aegis Glide Phase Interceptor program?

slience.... I thought so

 

[LeGenD]

what a stupid thing to say but then again you do that alot

if you know so much can you tell me how many live successful hypersonic intercepts Israel had one? or even the US?

slience.... I thought so

You need to mind your language, if you want to continue to post on PDF. I supported your ascendance to PDF Think Tank cadre but you have turned out to be one of the most deluded and illogical members of the forum, and you continue to show it.

I have pointed out to you that the technology to detect and track hypersonic missiles "exists."

Israel and US are conducting unannounced experiments as well. These are hinted on the web but you wouldn't know because you are busy trolling instead of taking interest in fact-finding.

 

[kingQamaR]

All ballistic missiles are hypersonic by definition at some points in their trajectory. They are very easy to destroy because their flight path is predictable.

 

[AmirPatriot]

So where are we at in this thread? Are we at the bargaining phase now?

 

[Philosopher]

Tracking these systems requires extensive sensor constellations, they're talking of space based sensors. Forgetting the cost, these sensors will be one of first target in a conflict. Now, suppose you can detect and track them, what's your plan for actually shooting down the warhead? One way you could possibly do it is extensive ground based electromatic guns firing mass hypersonic shells in the hope you have had enough warning time to fire enough to fire enough hyprsonic projectiles to possibly shoot it down. Notice the theme, "extensive", "possibly". Even if you could find a way to reliably shoot them down, good luck defending your kill chain and do it all in a way that will not bankrupt you given the numbers you'll need to defend a large enough area.

Hence why I am saying forget this notion of anyone countering these systems in (at least) the next ten years.

 

[Homajon]

Since Russian forces are trying to destroy Patriot systems, Ukrainian authorities have strongly discouraged Ukrainian nationals from documenting Patriot intercepts because Russians can benefit from well-documented information released on the web.

Maybe this is true, maybe not. The first thing that dies in a war is the truth.
But let's say it is true (and I believe so), this doesn't proof anything concerning Kinzhal. It is not evidence that "many" Kinzhals were downed. Even if the Russians would not use any Kinzhals at all, the Ukrainians would still behave this way.
Why don't the Ukrainians show the wreckage of the "many" intercepted Kinzhals, this would be huge propaganda win!
(By the way, Kinzhal cannot compared to Avantgarde! And also not to Fattah)

And one more important thing to consider:
There is a war in Ukraine since 16 month, and it will continue for a very long time. So the one side has sufficient time to analyse the weapons of the opponent. So MAYBE at one point they will find a way to better counter the Khinzal.

But a war between Iran and the US/Israel will at the maximum last a few weeks, and Iran will use the Fattah mainly at the beginning of the war in large numbers, so there will be no time to adapt to it...

 

[aziqbal]

You need to mind your language, if you want to continue to post on PDF. I supported your ascendance to PDF Think Tank cadre but you have turned out to be one of the most deluded and illogical members of the forum. And you continue to show it.

I have pointed out to you that the technology to detect and track hypersonic missiles "exists."

Israel and US are conducting unannounced experiments as well. These are hinted on the web but you wouldn't know because you are busy trolling instead of taking interest in fact-finding.

you supported my ascendance to Think Tank Analyst? kindly do prove it if that is indeed the case

and if so then I owe you a explanation

that was at a time when PDF was for logical and technical discussions and enjoyed those technical posts, , my ratings still reflect the quality I once had

since then PDF has come down a long way and my attitude has changed in accordance with the decline, maybe its not the right attitude to have

I have a message group where all the Mods are added with other TTA + Professional members we raised so many issues everyone turned a blind eye including Webby I see you were not part of that group for whatever reason

many TTA + Professionals left this forum many of my friends old timers that is just sad and I am still annoyed about it

poor brother denel a Professional account holder was so abused openly and privately by Chinese trolls

the bitter experience is reflected in my posts, PDF really did let down its most senior members for trolls

 

[LeGenD]

you supported my ascendance to Think Tank Analyst? kindly do prove it if that is indeed the case

and if so then I owe you a explanation

that was at a time when PDF was for logical and technical discussions and enjoyed those technical posts, , my ratings still reflect the quality I once had

since then PDF has come down a long way and my attitude has changed in accordance with the decline, maybe its not the right attitude to have

I have a message group where all the Mods are added with other TTA + Professional members we raised so many issues everyone turned a blind eye including Webby I see you were not part of that group for whatever reason

many TTA + Professionals left this forum many of my friends old timers that is just sad and I am still annoyed about it

poor brother denel a Professional account holder was so abused openly and privately by Chinese trolls

the bitter experience is reflected in my posts

You have some points, I will talk to you in private.

 

[kingQamaR]

Tracking these systems requires extensive sensor constellations, they're talking of space based sensors. Forgetting the cost, these sensors will be one of first target in a conflict. Now, suppose you can detect and track them, what's your plan for actually shooting down the warhead? One way you could possibly do it is extensive ground based electromatic guns firing mass hypersonic shells in the hope you have had enough warning time to fire enough to fire enough hyprsonic projectiles to possibly shoot it down. Notice the theme, "extensive", "possibly". Even if you could find a way to reliably shoot them down, good luck defending your kill chain and do it all in a way that will not bankrupt you given the numbers you'll need to defend a large enough area.

Hence why I am saying forget this notion of anyone countering these systems in (at least) the next ten years.

Absolute rubbish

Anti-missile (AM) and anti-air (AA) systems are not designed to hit the target, they are designed with extremely precise proximity detonators that explode when they are in front of and below their target - this drenches the target in shrapnel hoping that one or more systems will become damaged causing the missile to fail. MH370 which was shot down in 2014 was "struck" by a Buk missile and it received over 700 penetrating breaches that each looked like a single bullet hole from a handgun - that is how an AM/AA kills you. It doesn't matter how fast a missile is travelling if an AM missile detonates ahead of it the 12,000mph target will be shredded by the shrapnel cloud when it runs into it. This is why all the major powers are working on missiles that can "zig zag" at high speed to evade AM systems, currently no missile can do this because the aerodynamic forces can destroy it so currently AM missiles still only have to explode in front of any incoming enemy missile to take it out.