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Iran and the Shah: What Really Happened

I don't think Iranians are as racist as you say :P

There's a lot of Iranians I know and they are quite nice. Just my personal experience anyway but some seem to be racist towards Arabs but none of them has been racist towards Turkey or Turks and they even visit Turkey occasionally.

Are you not the guy that always defends Iran and who has an Iranian girlfriend? I don't think you are the right source to judge which people are racist or not in this case with all due respect. We are talking about general terms. Nobody has ever claimed that all Persians are racists but everyone that knows just a little bit about Iran knows that it is a big problem.
 
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Are you not the guy that always defends Iran and who has an Iranian girlfriend? I don't think you are the right source to judge which people are racist or not in this case with all due respect. We are talking about general terms. Nobody has ever claimed that all Persians are racists but everyone that knows just a little bit about Iran knows that it is a big problem.
I never defended Iran. :cheesy:

I just talked about the amount of exaggeration in this thread and nothing more. What I don't understand is that if racism is alive to such a degree, why some of the prominent figures of the countries are from minority ethnic groups? Religious persecution on the other hand is true without any doubt but that too stems from the government not the people. Anyway I'll let you fight here. I am out.
 
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In generel the article is right.. The Shah was never a puppet of the west, that has always been a myth. He was simply a sovereign leader who wanted to develop Iran, but even this was not acceptable to the west....his oil policy, his military policy, the nuclear policy....they wanted Iran to stop it all, that's why they brought Khomenei in, the West wanted him to turn Iran into a second Saudi Arabia! But the Soviets had nothing to do with the coup against the Shah, that's bullshit.

A better asessment of the fall of the Shah can be found in the book "A Century of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order" by William Engdahl.

A Century of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order: F. William Engdahl: 9780745323091: Amazon.com: Books




A Century of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order: F. William Engdahl: 9780745323091: Amazon.com: Books



Back then in 1979, China was the only country which called the revolution a western coup, and their asessment was totally right. Ironically, a few years later, China became Irans most important ally. In the Iran-Iraq war, China provided Iran with critical know how to re-engineer US weapons, and when Iran re-started its nuclear industry in the mid 80's, it was China which helped with technology and training of iranian nuclear scientists (a decade later they stoped due to US pressure).

As far as Russia is concerned: In Soviet Era, Russia had a common border with Iran, and when Khomenei came to power, this was a threat to Russias interests in the Caspian Sea region and also the wider Middle East, so the Russians helped to arm Saddam in the war to degrade Irans conventional military. Fortunately the Soviet Union collapsed, Russia was no longer a world power and had no common border with Iran anymore, so they the saw a stronger Iran as usefull against the US. In the 90's, Russia trained a lot of iranian military engineers and after Chinas exit, Russia trained Iranian nuclear scientists and provided nuclear technology to Iran. And in the current Russia-West standoff, Iran can further profit.

It was one of the Wests biggest mistakes in history to topple the Shah. The Shah never opposed the West, he only wanted a sovereign and prosperous Iran. Now the West has the unique chance to again have close relations with Iran, if they don't take it, then Iran will totally go into the Russia-China camp.

The US provided the best equipment they had to the Shah. Iran got F-14s. Name one other country that was able to purchase those from the US. The US gifted a nuclear rector facility to Iran. It was built in Iran by US money. The US had full intention of propping up the Shah. Foreign companies got a major share of natural resources of Iran. At the time Iran was a huge support for Israel. The Shah could have given up some of the power, to make the people happy, so that there would not have been a revolution but that that wasn't his goal.
 
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LOL, that's obviously nonsense. If Iran was so tolerant it would not have had state-institutionalized racism applied since the days of the Shah. 50% of your population are non-Persians yet they are not even allowed to speak their NATIVE tongues. They are oppressed, their political figures are regularly jailed and killed etc.

Even Iranins on PDF are the most racist of all ME people here. Tork, Torke Khar, Tazi etc.

Baluch are rioting in your lands, Kurds, you had wars with Kurds, Arabs have had uprisings etc.

Those are few incidents.


Iran's anti-Arab racism | Comment is free | theguardian.com

RACISM IN CONTEMPORARY IRAN

The Farsis are the only people in the ME who are as deluded as thinking that they have any ties to Germans for instance and their Aryan nonsense despite genetically not being any differently from other ME people.

It doesnt matter what percentage you throw at me. I dont think in racial terms. I know this concept seem strange and like a alien phenomenon to someone like you who originate from a country that does not have a history of strong statehood and state institutions as countries like Iran, Turkey, Egypt. As KSA is rather a landmass filled with people with tribal predispositions (Nejd, Hejaz bla bla bla)
Because in Iran all the ethnicities have something that bind them together which is their nationality IRAN.
But I think its futile for me to explain this to you.

An Arab from GCC should be the LAST person to speak about institutionalized racism. It doesnt exist in Iran in any meaningful way and I couldnt care less what a low life propagandist like rmi5 would fill you with a pack of lies.
But it does exist in GCC. Ive seen it myself when I was in Dubai where I was shocked by the treatment of a person (I think he was from Pakistan or something) who carried bags, by the manager.
Dont throw stones when you live in a glass house that could fall apart any day.


Iran is a sanctioned and politically isolated country but there have been many travellers (including Americans) who have went there and almost all of them have said that Iranians (regardless of race) are some of the most accomodating people in the world.



Unfortunately I can not say the same for your people whom are not only close minded but also racist. At least a significant portion. Its amusing for a guy like you to raise the issue of institutionalized racist. Absolutely fekking hilarious.
 
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@LoveIcon - Yaar waisee Lovey Bhai hum West Pakistani innn Bengaloyioon koh Urdu nahin sikhaa sakheiii purrr Bollywood key movies ne sikhaa diyaaa ! :rofl:

Maybe we should've made better films in Urdu and have cinemas open up all over East-Bengal with free movie nights ! :o:

Missed Opportunity ! :(

Let them learn them Hindi well, than it will be easier to teach them language of evil Punjabies ;)
 
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It doesnt matter what percentage you throw at me. I dont think in racial terms. I know this concept seem strange and like a alien phenomenon to someone like you who originate from a country that does not have a history of strong statehood and state institutions as countries like Iran, Turkey, Egypt. As KSA is rather a landmass filled with people with tribal predispositions (Nejd, Hejaz bla bla bla)
Because in Iran all the ethnicities have something that bind them together which is their nationality IRAN.
But I think its futile for me to explain this to you.

An Arab from GCC should be the LAST person to speak about institutionalized racism. It doesnt exist in Iran in any meaningful way and I couldnt care less what a low life propagandist like rmi5 would fill you with a pack of lies.
But it does exist in GCC. Ive seen it myself when I was in Dubai where I was shocked by the treatment of a person (I think he was from Pakistan or something) who carried bags, by the manager.
Dont throw stones when you live in a glass house that could fall apart any day.


Iran is a sanctioned and politically isolated country but there have been many travellers (including Americans) who have went there and almost all of them have said that Iranians (regardless of race) are some of the most accomodating people in the world.



Unfortunately I can not say the same for your people whom are not only close minded but also racist. At least a significant portion. Its amusing for a guy like you to raise the issue of institutionalized racist. Absolutely fekking hilarious.

LOL. There were civilizations in the Arabian Peninsula before anything called Iran existed. We are following our own culture on every single front while you are heavily influenced by Arabs and other foreigners. State institutions? You were made up by different ethnic groups, tribes etc. who were just united under different rulers. Your nationalism is a new phenomenon that your Shah adopted from the West. Arabs already during the Umayyad Dynasty and way before had nationalism. Arabs are one of the people with the strongest identities out there of all people.

Hijaz has been a region of its own for millenniums. It has just belonged to many different empires, Caliphates, Kingdoms etc.

Bla, bla, bla.
One just have to read about the state-institutionalized racism in Iran against all its minorities who are not even allowed to be taught their own native mother tongues in their own regions in official state schools.

One also just has to compare how Arabs in Iran are treated and how Iranians in the GCC are treated. This alone speaks for itself.

LOL, every ME are accommodating to foreigners. Big news. I can easily find similar comments about any single country out there let alone the ME that is famous for it.
Ever heard about Arabian hospitality? It is more famous than Iranian.

Keep denying your obvious racism.

Just go on Youtube and search on Iranian/Persian racism and you will have many Iranians discussing it themselves. Can't be a coincidence.

The GCC host people from all over the world. Many more foreigners than Iran will ever host.

You posting the same 2 videos are not going to change anything in this regard. Those two people were caught and punished while the people in Iran who kill minorities each day walk as free men.
 
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LOL. There were civilizations in the Arabian Peninsula before anything called Iran existed. We are following our own culture on every single front while you are heavily influenced by Arabs and other foreigners. State institutions? You were made up by different ethnic groups, tribes etc. who were just united under different rulers. Your nationalism is a new phenomenon that your Shah adopted from the West. Arabs already during the Umayyad Dynasty and way before had nationalism. Arabs are one of the people with the strongest identities out there of all people.

Hijaz has been a region of its own for millenniums. It has just belonged to many different empires, Caliphates, Kingdoms etc.

Bla, bla, bla.
One just have to read about the state-institutionalized racism in Iran against all its minorities who are not even allowed to weak their mother tongue in public or taught it. How about that?

One also just has to compare how Arabs in Iran are treated and how Iranians in the GCC are treated. This alone speaks for itself.

LOL, every ME are accommodating to foreigners. Big news. I can easily find similar comments about any single country out there let alone the ME that is famous for it.
Ever heard about Arabian hospitality? It is more famous than Iranian.

Keep denying your obvious racism.

Just go on Youtube and search Iranian/Persian racism and you will have many Iranians discussing it.

Obviously there have been civilizations in Arabian peninsula but they have almost always been tribal and still are to this day.
Countries like Iran, Turkey and Egypt have tradtionally been the nation states of the region whereas the other countries (including your own) is the result of artificial borders drawn in an agreement called Psykes Piquot, after the fall of the Ottoman empire that ruled you before then.
Its a joke for you to deny it and say otherwise.
Your country has a weak history of statehood and that's an indisputable fact. That your counry is called after a family/tribe speaks volumes. Volumes.

Arab hospitality?
I dont want to generilize. I distinguish a whole lot between Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese etc from GCC.
Generally I find (and most other people) the people of the GCC too conservative, close-minded and indeed a little racist. Both from personal experience and factual evidence. ;)
 
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First of all what's wrong with Israel? Iran has ancient ties with jews.
Secondly Reza Shah was assisted by British, however if he was a British puppet he would never work with Germans.
He was put in power by the British but when he refused to kick the german workers out they toppled him and exiled him another reason iran was supply line to the soviet front
the son was western dog he supported the kurds by orders from israel so Iraq couldn't fight in the arab israeli war and keep Iraq military and economically busy fighting the kurds
because Iraq the only arab country that refused the ceasefire agreement with israel
 
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Obviously there have been civilizations in Arabian peninsula but they have almost always been tribal and still are to this day.
Countries like Iran, Turkey and Egypt have tradtionally been the nation states of the region whereas the other countries (including your own) is the result of artificial borders drawn in an agreement called Psykes Piquot.
Its a joke for you to deny it and say otherwise.
Your country has a weak history of statehood and that's an indisputable fact. That your counry is called after a family/tribe speaks volumes. Volumes.

Arab hospitality?
I dont want to generilize. I distinguish a whole lot between Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese etc from GCC.
Generally I find (and most other people) the people of the GCC too conservative, close-minded and indeed a little racist. Both from personal experience and factual evidence. ;)

LOL. Because your Persian tribe that migrated to what is now Iran from the steppes and desert of Central Asia some 3000 years ago were not tribal? Google Andronovo.

They were basically civilized by us Semites which everyone knows about and can google. Hence your adopting their language (Aramaic), architecture, national symbols, religious Gods, making Babylon the capital etc.

Andronovo culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or all those Iranian dynasties etc. For God's sake you still have tribal peoples. 100 years ago most of Iran was tribal. Your first Pahlavi Shah removed that because he wanted to follow the Western model.

Amazon.com: The Political History of Modern Iran: From Tribalism to Theocracy (9780275944452): Mehran Kamrava: Books

You do realize that Turks just like you Iranians still have tribes, right?

Turkey? You do realize that the Ottoman Empire is just 700 years old? Turkey as a country is very young. Almost 1000 years before that Arabs had the Umayyad Empire which non-Arabs complained about because it was too nationalistic. So what the hell are you talking about? The Arabian Peninsula is home to some of the oldest civilizations on the planet. Native moreover. They were obviously well aware of who they were regardless of them being well aware of their families/clans/tribes just like all other ME peoples of that time or not.

Yemen for instance founded some of the first nation states on the planet yet they are today one of the most tribal states. Having a tribal identity and a well-defined idea of statehood and origin are obviously not contradictory at ALL.

KSA was never a colony and your country is artificial using that logic. All of KSA is Arabia. So there is noting artificial about it. Iraq for instance compromised most of ancient Mesopotamia which is much older than Iran. Calling it artificial is the work of an ignorant. Lebanon similarly can be considered the successor state of the Phoenicians. Who are once again older than Iran. Syria too.

The only somewhat artificial states out there are Jordan but it could be considered a successor state of Nabatea and Qatar/UAE. But they can be considered as being part of the Greater Bahrain region.

Egypt, unlike KSA was a Western colony, and it borders are artificial in the same fashion that those of KSA' are by your logic. Yet most of what is now Egypt still correspondents to what it was before. Mostly.

Similarily Arabia continues to be Arabia.

Arabian hospitality is world-renowned.

You have never met any persons from the GCC as there are non in Iran and Denmark. Arabian or Arab, Arabs are well-known for their hospitality all over the Arab world. Even Bedouins were fiercely well-known for their hospitality.
 
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LOL. Because your Persian tribe that migrated to what is now Iran from the steppes and desert of Central Asia some 3000 years ago were not tribal? Google Andronovo.

They were basically civilized by us Semites which everyone knows about and can google. Hence your adopting their language (Aramaic), architecture, national symbols, religious Gods, making Babylon the capital etc.

Andronovo culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or all those Iranian dynasties etc. For God's sake you still have tribal peoples. 100 years ago most of Iran was tribal. Your first Pahlavi Shah removed that because he wanted to follow the Western model.

Amazon.com: The Political History of Modern Iran: From Tribalism to Theocracy (9780275944452): Mehran Kamrava: Books

You do realize that Turks just like you Iranians and and still have tribes, right?

Turkey? You do realize that the Ottoman Empire is just 700 years old? Turkey as a country is very young. Almost 1000 years before that Arabs had the Umayyad Empire which non-Arabs complained about because it was too nationalistic. So what the hell are you talking about? The Arabian Peninsula is home to some of the oldest civilizations on the planet. Native moreover. They were obviously well aware of who they were regardless of them being well aware of their families/clans/tribes just like all other ME peoples of that time.

Yemen for instance founded some of the first nation states on the planet yet they are today one of the most tribal states. Having a tribal identity and a well-defined idea of statehood and origin are obviously not contradictory at ALL.

KSA was never a colony and your country is artificial. Iraq for instance compromised most of ancient Mesopotamia which is much older than Iran. Calling it artificial is the work of an ignorant. Lebanon similarly can be considered the successor state of the Phoenicians. Who are once again older than Iran.

Egypt, unlike KSA was a Western colony, and it borders are artificial. Yet most of what is now Egypt still correspondents to what it was before.

Similarily Arabia continues to be Arabia.

Arabian hospitality is world-renowned.

You have never met any persons from the GCC as there are non in Iran and Denmark.

Ummayad was really a Levantine empire, as the political locus was in Syria. But you are not from there, you are from somwhere called Saudi Arabia which represent the lowest of what you call the Arab world.
Basically whatever empires that made the Arabs famous, were not really an Arabian peninsula empire.

Artificial? Nice joke. Iran is synchronous with the Iranian plateu and its territorial boundaries are the same that formed the main core of the ancient Iranian empires (Sassanid, Safavid, Achaemenid empire etc).

Same goes for Turkey. Even if it wasnt called Turkey at the time (as Ottoman was an empire streching further), what is today Turkey was the power-base or political locus of that empire.

So to sum up, your country is fake. Just like Kuwait, Qatar are fake countries and the result of Sykes Piqot. Are you really going to say otherwise? Frikken lol
The only real Arab nation state is Egypt, and that is not even historically Arab. lol
I know you have too much pride to admit this, but facts are facts, regardless of what they teach in Arab books and curriculum in the kingdom.
Your country SAUDI Arabia, called after a family/tribe (what a bunch of pompous pricks) is as tribal as it gets.
Deal with it instead of trying to sweep it under the rug. K bud?
 
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He was put in power by the British but when he refused to kick the german workers out they toppled him and exiled him another reason iran was supply line to the soviet front
the son was western dog he supported the kurds by orders from israel so Iraq couldn't fight in the arab israeli war and keep Iraq military and economically busy fighting the kurds
because Iraq the only arab country that refused the ceasefire agreement with israel
If he was British puppet why he didnt follow their orders, actually why did he work against British interests?

Secondly the support of Shah for kurds had nothing to do with Israel, Iraq didnt recognize Iranian borders and Iran supported Kurds. When Saddam signed algiers treaty Iran dropped the support for Kurds (a big mistake since Saddam was a snake).

Many arab countries together got defeated by Israel, so one Iraq less or more would not make a lot of difference.
 
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Funny that you as an Iranian person talk about tribalism. Let's see your Kurdish, Pashtun and Baluch cousins are some of the most tribal people on the planet if not the most tribal people. Your own Lurs were basically nomads until recently. You have Qashqais who are still nomads to this day.

Your earliest Iranian peoples such as Schytians etc. and others were textbook nomads. You guys were nomads much longer than us Semites. The only nomadic Semitic peoples were Bedouins. This was due to the harshness of the region they inhabited (Central Arabia - Najd) but even they were sedentary for large parts of the year and employed in farming whenever necessary.

Let's see Iran of today is made up by dozens of ethnic groups who are vastly different. The only thing that binds it together are the fairytales of a long gone past that we Arabs destroyed thoroughly. A past moreover that was heavily influenced by us Semites.

What is now Iran was ruled for 1000 year by Arabs and Turks. Only the Turkic Safavid restored "Iranian nationalism". Later it lost momentum until the first Pahlavi Shah (British installed puppet) got the throne in 1925. He tried to modernize Iran which was sparsely populated, highly illiterate, poor etc. and copied the Western model and that of Atatürk who himself was inspired by European nationalism.

This way most of the tribalism was removed.

Iran: Modernization and the Islamic Revolution

You Iranians had no surnames until 1909. Before that time period you were known by tribal names or patrimonies. Arabs have and surnames since time immortal on the other hand.

Persian name - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Most of Iranians adopted Arab names and added pour or ian. Most not even. Hence why your most popular surname to date is Ahmadi. You yourself have admitted that your own name is Arabic purely and then you have an audacity to talk about "belonging" or" own culture".

Anyway your Baluchistan for instance is a new addition. Those people by large don't want to be part of Iran but their own Baluchistan. Same with the Turkmens etc.

Iran is not a homogenous state. It is based on a dead idea from 1400 years ago. That is why your rulers have been so afraid (Shah or Mullah alike) to let the minorities get autonomy and their own languages etc. Because if they did there would be a great risk of Iran falling apart and then you Persians would be left with the mostly harsh lands of Central Persia.

Umayayds were from KSA and Arab nationalists. That they made a capital 200 km north of Arabia in what is now modern day Damascus does not make them Levantine.:lol: What the hell is Levantine anyway? It's Northwestern Semite basically. Northwestern KSA is part of the Levant historically. Levant was and is inhabited by us Semitic people and Hijaz the original homeland of the Rashidun, Umayyad, Abbasid and Fatimid Empires is an extension of Sham (Levant) and always was. Even during the time of Prophet Muhammad (saws).

@Halimi
 
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@al-Hasani

Iran as a country is less tribal than its arab neighbours. This is a fact. The only "division" we have in Iran is that we have different related peoples in our country (except the arabs and turkmens). However we have not tens of tribes for persian peoples for example (which are now 65% of the country), same for most of azeris.

And when we speak of tribal groups within the baluch or lur ethnicity, it doesnt play a major role in their self identification, culture and it never plays a role in creating conflicts. Afghanistan went its own way, that's why they are more tribal (the pashtuns which you mentioned).

All nations were nomadic/semi-nomadic before becoming settled. Even Ancient Iranians like Zoroaster were against nomadism and preached for agriculture.
"Lie (Druj) is a thieving nomad, an enemy of orderly agriculture and animal husbandry".

Arabs destroyed themselves with their jewish influenced fairytales (they wrote most of their religion when they lived in Iran under rule of persians... so we see persian elements in it), we see the results today in Iraq, Syria, Yemen :lol:

Sad thing for you is that the gathas of zoroaster (words of zoroaster himself) have no arabic words, but the Quran has persian words (while it claims it's 100% arabic, so someone was drinking wine on this earth or above the earth?)
Safavids were kurdish descent my friend :lol: you've internet, time to update your knowledge.

Finally before talking more nonsense arabs were ruled 1000 of years by turkics, Iranian peoples and invaded 1000 times by Americans, Israel etc (except some deserts were only mouse and rats live). :lol: They even needed Americans to liberate their people from Saddam or to protect their fake straight British drawn borders from their enemies.
 
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If he was British puppet why he didnt follow their orders, actually why did he work against British interests?

Secondly the support of Shah for kurds had nothing to do with Israel, Iraq didnt recognize Iranian borders and Iran supported Kurds. When Saddam signed algiers treaty Iran dropped the support for Kurds (a big mistake since Saddam was a snake).

Many arab countries together got defeated by Israel, so one Iraq less or more would not make a lot of difference.
He stopped being aligned with Britain after 1953 when the Americans replaced us as his main ally. He was the most pro American leader in Middle Eastern history. To claim the CIA thought they would benefit from his being deposed is proposterous.
 
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He stopped being aligned with Britain after 1953 when the Americans replaced us as his main ally. He was the most pro American leader in Middle Eastern history. To claim the CIA thought they would benefit from his being deposed is proposterous.
I'm talking about his father. Cia benefited from terrorists to fight communist soviet influence and groups. Nothing is preposterous when we talk about CIA/MI6 terrorism and history.
 
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