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INS Vikrant truly a pan Indian effort

Fine, then its a different paradigm. Then its clear that ACC is not for defense but for power projection.

And the area of projection is the entire IOR, which means that India will not allow any hostile navy, especially the Chinese Navy, to operate or dominate the IOR.

The question is whether the ACC is the best way to do it, or are we operating on inertia just because of our "pride" in being the only Asian power with AC. Is there a less ponderous, cheaper and leaner and meaner way to do it? May be use a combination of subs, missiles and other ships?

I dont know. Maybe the experts can enlighten, including the "enemy" experts.
@faithfulguy

with a coastline of 7500 kms plus and economic interest totally dependent on sea lanes we dont want the enemy even to think that they can undermine India's interest, The ACC's are one of the potent weapons platform, just like how a battle field theater has various force multipliers Surely Acc's are biggest force multipliers.

In no way can we just say that we will win all wars with Acc's, IN philosophy has been to secure the sea lanes and deny the same to the enemy and if history is any proof they have achieved near 100 % objectives. IN will surely look into different dimension that are emerging and adapt newer tech that can enhance operation objectives.
 
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@rafiqali

bro...don't talk bullsh!t..India has a huge coastline to cover.and Carrier fleet always comes handy for fleet defence.you can't rely on other country for defence,right???Every Arm needs their own Air Fleet to cover their strength.e.g.,we've a decent airforce.but then why IA is inducting their own helo fleet??just for autonomy.India has an ambition to become Blue water navy.also,it is particularly needed when we've a huge numbers of islands to cover.you're assuming that southern air fleet can even bomb the Karachi harbour without breaking a sweat.on paper,its true.but what happen if they already wiped out several hundreds of aircraft of IA in preemptive strike??how IAF is going to provide cover for IN??you donot even understand the concept of Air Defence Ship,yet making huge noises..no wonder you'll be tagged as a troll.you're a newbie here.try to read Senior Members' posts than engaging in futile argument.

as for fund redirection on other projects,we're not short of funds.we've huge number of obsolete hardware to replace.for that,time will be needed.if you try to know how many induction projects are going on simultaneously,you'll get a heart attack.its not like we yell "Submarine",and there will be Submarine.it'll take around 8 years to make a Sub,around 10 years to make a Aircraft Carrier,around 15-20 years to develop and induct an Aircraft,around 7-10 years to make a new tank.yelling that we don't have this or we don't have that willn't help.what do you think,those who are command of these forces are fool??they're far too practical than you'll ever know..

I advice you to read others post than making a mess in this thread,also advising not to quote chinese members here..they're well known for trolling.

Unfortunately, your condescending and faux expert tone is not supported by the sophomoric quality of your response. And why does it rile you so much if one strikes a discordant note amongst your cheer leading orgy. This is a defense form, which means that matters strategic should be discussed here rather than mutual admiration man oeuvres.

I can largely assess that while you may be sound on the tech aspects of armaments, your appreciation of matters strategic approaches zero. Are you from the Defense Forces, because the Boy's Toys disease is pretty rampant there.

And you have added a few more to the confusion wrought by the earlier posters. According to you ACs are needed for --

1. India's coastal defense

2. India's island defense

This is of course in addition to protection of India's trade lanes, and Blue Water ambition the reasons for which were expected to be so self evident that asking for reasons has been considered sacrilage.

Your claims for Coastal and Island defense are so absurd that I will not even bother refuting them. If the IN thinks so, it will be a first, a unique paradigm. Use an AC as a dance floor for all I care, but the international paradigm is for its use as a floating military city, an offensive and deterrent projection of power. Of course my queries about use of such platform in the IOC has merely been responded by obfuscations.

And which shipping lanes do you protect? The major ones go around the Straits of Hormuz, the Cape of Good Hope and the straits of Malacca. These are international lanes, and cargo is carried by ships flying non -Indian flags, mostly Panama. Nothing to protect here, and if you try to block them, expect a good whacking from other nations including the US.

So the only place where India specific cargo filters is inside the Bay of Bengal and the Arabian Sea. Which means that the AC will be around the Indian coast. If local lanes are the ones to be protected, I m sure land based airfields can do it as well, or better. In fact, far from needing protection, A&N is actually a series of unsinkable ACs which can cover the straits of Malacca as well as a lot of IOC. Read about Malta in WW-II?

As for the desire of navy to have its own AF, we do not pander to expensive desires unless there are clear strategic advantages. You mean that navies without AC, including Japan and China have no protection against air attacks.
 
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INS Vikrat is more of a Helicopter Carrier..,

mmb9qajq9swpi8xxy76a.jpeg


Being able to carry 14-16 Mult-role 4.5++ gen fighters makes it more of a helicopter carrier??
 
which part of india built the engine?
which part of india built its AESA radar?
which part of india built those fighter jets?
which part of india built its satellite navigation system?

OMG, You also here?

 
Oh well; then just think that the Carriers will be useful to invade Somalia........that should keep you happy then?



LOLLLLL, piecefool surfaces, now faithfool guy will also pop-up over the horizon soon enough............:rofl:


These two along with lightening bolts were also in every ISRO related thread. These three are really pissed off with every ISRO related or defense production news.
 
Unfortunately, your condescending and faux expert tone is not supported by the sophomoric quality of your response. And why does it rile you so much if one strikes a discordant note amongst your cheer leading orgy. This is a defense form, which means that matters strategic should be discussed here rather than mutual admiration man oeuvres.

I can largely assess that while you may be sound on the tech aspects of armaments, your appreciation of matters strategic approaches zero. Are you from the Defense Forces, because the Boy's Toys disease is pretty rampant there.

And you have added a few more to the confusion wrought by the earlier posters. According to you ACs are needed for --

1. India's coastal defense

2. India's island defense

This is of course in addition to protection of India's trade lanes, and Blue Water ambition the reasons for which were expected to be so self evident that asking for reasons has been considered sacrilage.

Your claims for Coastal and Island defense are so absurd that I will not even bother refuting them. If the IN thinks so, it will be a first, a unique paradigm. Use an AC as a dance floor for all I care, but the international paradigm is for its use as a floating military city, an offensive and deterrent projection of power. Of course my queries about use of such platform in the IOC has merely been responded by obfuscations.

And which shipping lanes do you protect? The major ones go around the Straits of Hormuz, the Cape of Good Hope and the straits of Malacca. These are international lanes, and cargo is carried by ships flying non -Indian flags, mostly Panama. Nothing to protect here, and if you try to block them, expect a good whacking from other nations including the US.

So the only place where India specific cargo filters is inside the Bay of Bengal and the Arabian Sea. Which means that the AC will be around the Indian coast. If local lanes are the ones to be protected, I m sure land based airfields can do it as well, or better. In fact, far from needing protection, A&N is actually a series of unsinkable ACs which can cover the straits of Malacca as well as a lot of IOC. Read about Malta in WW-II?

As for the desire of navy to have its own AF, we do not pander to expensive desires unless there are clear strategic advantages. You mean that navies without AC, including Japan and China have no protection against air attacks.

If you have already decided that we don't need ACC then why the feigned ignorance about uses of ACC and after being replied the riling up of members ??

Is this some kind of new tactic to increase post count, i mean i have seen various strategies so just asking.
 
Unfortunately, your condescending and faux expert tone is not supported by the sophomoric quality of your response. And why does it rile you so much if one strikes a discordant note amongst your cheer leading orgy. This is a defense form, which means that matters strategic should be discussed here rather than mutual admiration man oeuvres.

I can largely assess that while you may be sound on the tech aspects of armaments, your appreciation of matters strategic approaches zero. Are you from the Defense Forces, because the Boy's Toys disease is pretty rampant there.

And you have added a few more to the confusion wrought by the earlier posters. According to you ACs are needed for --

1. India's coastal defense

2. India's island defense

This is of course in addition to protection of India's trade lanes, and Blue Water ambition the reasons for which were expected to be so self evident that asking for reasons has been considered sacrilage.

Your claims for Coastal and Island defense are so absurd that I will not even bother refuting them. If the IN thinks so, it will be a first, a unique paradigm. Use an AC as a dance floor for all I care, but the international paradigm is for its use as a floating military city, an offensive and deterrent projection of power. Of course my queries about use of such platform in the IOC has merely been responded by obfuscations.

And which shipping lanes do you protect? The major ones go around the Straits of Hormuz, the Cape of Good Hope and the straits of Malacca. These are international lanes, and cargo is carried by ships flying non -Indian flags, mostly Panama. Nothing to protect here, and if you try to block them, expect a good whacking from other nations including the US.

So the only place where India specific cargo filters is inside the Bay of Bengal and the Arabian Sea. Which means that the AC will be around the Indian coast. If local lanes are the ones to be protected, I m sure land based airfields can do it as well, or better. In fact, far from needing protection, A&N is actually a series of unsinkable ACs which can cover the straits of Malacca as well as a lot of IOC. Read about Malta in WW-II?

As for the desire of navy to have its own AF, we do not pander to expensive desires unless there are clear strategic advantages. You mean that navies without AC, including Japan and China have no protection against air attacks.


your ranting is as much expected as your naive answer..anyway,lets talk about technicalities,alright????

Red part..

why you don't bother about refuting them???tell me,in a hypothetical war against China,in which China,with 2 Carrier Battle Groups attacking A&N,what do you expect,what IAF will do??will they attack their Ships,their airborne Aircrafts,or protect our Naval groups fighting there against it.do you even know how vulnerable shore based facilities,including Airfields are against a group of Bandits(read enemy aircraft) dropping Anti Runway penetration bomb is??it can effectively make hundreds of Aircrafts in any Airbase a Sitting duck,while they run havoc in A&N???also,what do you prefer,An Aircraft that will take 15-20 mins to counter Bandits or attack enemy ships after take off,or 2-3 mins???also,if the situation I said happens,what will happen about our Battlegroup formation's Air cover??they'll sink every ships within 5 mins..ever read about Battle of Midway??

as for blue part...

in any major war against Chinese Carrier Group,IN will effectively use its carrier groups to block various choke points,not only to block their resources and to put pressure on them,but also counter any malpractice by China's "Higher than mountain,Deeper than Seas" friend.you know Sh!t about Carrier and their uses against war.also,both China and Japan has Carriers...while China is making three new carriers while already have one,Japan also has around 3-4 and making more and more whats they call "Helicopter Destroyer"..Even Chinese members are feeling skeptical about it that its a ploy to deploy Aircraft Carrier under secrecy..their Helicopter Carrier is so large,that around 1-1 1/2 Squadron of F-35 B/C can be easily deployed..

300px-USNWC_Varyag01.jpg

Chinese aircraft carrier programme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chinese Carriers are Far larger than ours..Ex-Varyag AKA Liaoning can carry over 30 Fixed Wing ACs with 24 helos..their new carriers will carry more..


USS_Boxer_5Avn_(USN).jpg


Hy

Izumo-class helicopter destroyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

these are Japan's new helo carriers,along with

Shirane-class destroyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

now comes the String of Pearl theory and how India will counter it..its called "Iron Curtain",deploy the force in various choke points and deny China any presence in IOR..

3379_1.png



I repeat,you know Sh!t...I again suggest you to read Senior Members' post than post your own Br@!nF@rt..we generally gets 1 or more so called "Defence Analyst" cum Troll in each week.. :closed:
 
My query was specifically about the Indian ACCs.

Once we accept that they are for air power projection, then the question is against whom? Pakistan is covered by our land forces. As for the Chinese, the fleets will have to enter Pacific even for projecting what rudimentary power they have. Can you do that with 3 ACCs of which only one will be operational at any time? And will that pacific entry against China be anything more than a heroic, but futile and fatal gesture.

The only use I can think of is for blocking the Straits of Malacca during hostilities with China. Obviously India cannot do it effectively by itself, and I suspect that it will use its ships to cooperate with US fleet. Which means that it is actually the US which is instigating and helping India towards true blue water capability which is more in America's than India's interests.

No harm in getting Blue Water capability if you can afford it. But India has far more pressing priorities for defense funds.

Seeing you are much concerned about why we need ACC.... then take this.

It is an investment to safeguard our investment and interest.. if you are intelligent you will understand.. if not ... god forbid..

There is a reason that AC is not a strategic asset. But nuclear subs, especially SSBNs, are the most important strategic asset. This is because AC is not meant for a nuclear war. US build the ACC for projecting power against countries like Iran, Iraq, Libya etc. Not for fighting WWIII.


AC is an strategic asset.. you agree or not it does not matter... most of the navies in the world and there navy officers believe the same... AC is more than power projection.. it maintains peace for the first step... which is the primary thing.
 
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