"Innocent" Ishrat Jahan

[Spectre]

In a utopian world I would agree with you sir but I think it is unfair to ignore the threat these scumbags do present and by not calling this a "war" you are being rather unfair. This is a war in all but name, it is a war waged by an enemy state with all of the same objectives and machinery as any conventional military offensive.

The fact remains that these incidents are exceptionally rare and this was an inteligence driven operation that was increidbly succesful. India has enough examples of what can happen if you fail to eliminate these kinds of threats. The enemy is at India's gates, it is not the time to try and take the moral high ground because these man made laws will only be exploited by enemies of the state, does ISAF/NATO ever attempt to capture terrorists in FATA, Syria/Iraq or Afghanistan? Did Seal Team Six go into Abbotobad with a search warrent and handcuffs? No, they went in with body bags. The enemy has no regard for your laws, they only seek to destroy every thing you hold dear, sometimes you have to treat them the only way you know how.

I don't have much issue with their executions other than the IB lost the opportunity to glean valuable intel from these losers.

@MilSpec

Perhaps you didn't get my point

- It is not a war - if the action is on domestic soil. To say such is a height of a folly for reasons which is obvious.
- Most of the US actions of elimination were on foreign soil. That's why have external and internal intelligent agencies. Internal Agencies like IB have to work within confines of Indian constitutions while RAW gets a relatively free hand.
- Much more intelligence would have been achieved via arrest and interrogation of Ishrat Jahan. To kill them is wasteful.
- Killing such domestic terrorists when there is a even a shadow of doubts makes them a martyr.
- Not everyone is on the same team. Not even our elected leaders. Why give them a opportunity to further harm our nation.

 

[Levina]

If you are in a position to shoot them then surely you are in a position to arrest them

Arrest them and feed them at our expense?
I am sure our agencies don't carry out such operations often.

 

[Spectre]

The role the IB played in this makes it abudently clear. This was not some chance encounter but an operation intiated based on direct intel provided by the IB after months of investigation, monitering and interceptions. This is a huge success story for India but look how it has been framed by those with nerfarious motives.

May be so. But the opposing narrative has gained currency and was exploited by Congress and others in direct contradiction of National Security.

All I am saying is that if it wasn't absolutely necessary for operational purposes, then don't kill them.

 

[Levina]

@Spectre
i want to know your take on this.


"In 2013 I was hauled up and harassed," RVS Mani, who was under secretary in the Chidambaram-led Home Ministry, said today. He said he was tortured by CBI officer Satish Verma.


"He... started narrating nonsense, became physical...He had put cigarette butts on my thighs," alleged the retired bureaucrat.

Mr Mani's name was on the two affidavits that the home ministry submitted before the Gujarat High Court in 2009 on the killing of 19-year-old Ishrat Jehan and three others by Gujarat police officers who claimed they were terrorists plotting to kill then Chief Minister Mr Modi.

But the official says he drafted only the first one dated August 6, which quoted intelligence and media reports to say that Ishrat was a "woman activist of the Lashkar-e-Taiba."

The very next month, a revised affidavit said there was no conclusive proof that Ishrat was a terrorist.
He alleges that the CBI tried to make him say that he drafted the first affidavit under pressure from the Intelligence Bureau.

Ishrat Jehan Case: 'Tortured With Cigarettes, Hounded By CBI,' Says Official

*****************************

If this is what an honest man has to go through then i want all the terrorists out there killed in fake encounters.

 

[Dragon4]

@Spectre
i want to know your take on this.


"In 2013 I was hauled up and harassed," RVS Mani, who was under secretary in the Chidambaram-led Home Ministry, said today. He said he was tortured by CBI officer Satish Verma.


"He... started narrating nonsense, became physical...He had put cigarette butts on my thighs," alleged the retired bureaucrat.

Mr Mani's name was on the two affidavits that the home ministry submitted before the Gujarat High Court in 2009 on the killing of 19-year-old Ishrat Jehan and three others by Gujarat police officers who claimed they were terrorists plotting to kill then Chief Minister Mr Modi.

But the official says he drafted only the first one dated August 6, which quoted intelligence and media reports to say that Ishrat was a "woman activist of the Lashkar-e-Taiba."

The very next month, a revised affidavit said there was no conclusive proof that Ishrat was a terrorist.
He alleges that the CBI tried to make him say that he drafted the first affidavit under pressure from the Intelligence Bureau.

Ishrat Jehan Case: 'Tortured With Cigarettes, Hounded By CBI,' Says Official

*****************************

If this is what an honest man has to go through then i want all the terrorists out there killed in fake encounters.

He is not so honest as you think.

 

[Levina]

He is not so honest as you think.

and what about Chidambaram? and satish verma?
They arent angels either.

 

[ranjeet]

And good Sir, how do you arrive at a conclusion that they indeed were "scumbags" and not some patsy served on a platter for promotions and other incentives which come in play

Conclusion was drawn after inputs from IB. LeT website published her name on their website, Headley also named Ishrat as LeT operative when NIA went to interrogate him. Heck even NDTV has switched the goal post, they just want to know if the terrorist was killed wrongly.

Have you read the forensic report which termed the encounter genuine but somehow Teesta Setalvad nominated SIT chief Satish Verma rejected it?

 

[Dragon4]

and what about Chidambaram? and satish verma?
They arent angels either.

I know that very well.

 

[Spectre]

Conclusion was drawn after inputs from IB. LeT website published her name on their website, Headley also named Ishrat as LeT operative when NIA went to interrogate him. Heck even NDTV has switched the goal post, they just want to know if the terrorist was killed wrongly.

Have you read the forensic report which termed the encounter genuine but somehow Teesta Setalvad nominated SIT chief Satish Verma rejected it?

i have no doubt about the above conclusions but the fact remains that all these conclusions came into light ipso facto without the PoI having the benefit of fair trial. This is being exploited.

 

[MilSpec]

And good Sir, how do you arrive at a conclusion that they indeed were "scumbags" and not some patsy served on a platter for promotions and other incentives which come in play

I guess, I am backing the security apparatus. Just like don't question if terrorist killed by security forces were really terrorists or patsy's with weapons planted on them, or OBL being killed without a trial or evidences collected against him, or drone strikes on suspected terror movements and convoys, or cross border firings where both sides say that the other side initiated firing. But that's just me. Again, I might be wrong, politically incorrect, unconstitutional, etc. But that is my opinion.

 

[Spectre]

I guess, I am backing the security apparatus. Just like don't question if terrorist killed by security forces were really terrorists or patsy's with weapons planted on them, or OBL being killed without a trial or evidences collected against him, or drone strikes on suspected terror movements and convoys, or cross border firings where both sides say that the other side initiated firing. But that's just me. Again, I might be wrong, politically incorrect, unconstitutional, etc. But that is my opinion.

Fair enough

 

[noksss]

I don't want to take sides but I do find that the other side has strong points too. The key point Verma makes is that it takes quite a bit of training to become a 'Fidayeen'- takes about 15 days to learn how to even shoot properly. So any mapping of her time spent in past doesn't indicate so much of time spent in training.


Ishrat Jehan: 'Brilliant Op' But 'Fake Encounter,' Says Investigator Satish Verma

Off course you are taking sides thats why you have discussed only the Chuthiya Verma's point of view but chose to not ask yourself the following questions

1) Why Chidambaram changed the Affadavit
2) Why 2 officers refused to head the SIT formed
3) Why a 5 year old case was reoponed by congress in 2009 ? Are they trying to provide justice to innocent girl after 5 years
4) Why Laskshar website has published her as Martyr
5) Why David Headley talked about her role in 2009 when the encounter has happened in 2004
6) Why almost many ex- IB bureaucrats are accusing congress of playing politics in this case and some even accusing the CBI of torture

i would ask you to put your hatred for modi aside and looks this a a case where the national security is compromised

@Abingdonboy

The LeT played a master stroke by recruiting an innocent college girl

Even 12 years later she is a useful propoganda tool

This is not a master stroke by Lakshars but just a cheap politics played by the congress . Don't you think with the whole media,Intelligence agencies under their control the government would have suppressed this case in no matter of time? In their hatred and urge to stop Modi becoming CM for the third time congress chose to play at the hands of terrorist by reopening the case without giving a hoot about national security . So what we see here is a Terrorist projected as a Martyr

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Off course you are taking sides thats why you have discussed only the Chuthiya Verma's point of view but chose to not ask yourself the following questions

1) Why Chidambaram changed the Affadavit
2) Why 2 officers refused to head the SIT formed
3) Why a 5 year old case was reoponed by congress in 2009 ? Are they trying to provide justice to innocent girl after 5 years
4) Why Laskshar website has published her as Martyr
5) Why David Headley talked about her role in 2009 when the encounter has happened in 2004
6) Why almost many ex- IB bureaucrats are accusing congress of playing politics in this case and some even accusing the CBI of torture

i would ask you to put your hatred for modi aside and looks this a a case where the national security is compromised


This is not a master stroke by Lakshars but just a cheap politics played by the congress . Don't you think with the whole media,Intelligence agencies under their control the government would have suppressed this case in no matter of time? In their hatred and urge to stop Modi becoming CM for the third time congress chose to play at the hands of terrorist by reopening the case without giving a hoot about national security . So what we see here is a Terrorist projected as a Martyr

Of course Bhakti will say acknowledgement of both sides as partisan. Tell me Bhakti if Israt was a terrorist, why not just arrest her? Or if you wanted to kill her, then just kill her straight in an encounter....I'm ready to forgive that you had the opportunity to detain her. Why stage manage an encounter AFTER arresting them?

 

[noksss]

Of course Bhakti will say acknowledgement of both sides as partisan. Tell me Bhakti if Israt was a terrorist, why not just arrest her? Or if you wanted to kill her, then just kill her straight in an encounter....I'm ready to forgive that you had the opportunity to detain her. Why stage manage an encounter AFTER arresting them?

Hey AAPtard should we care how a terrorist is killed ?. end of the day innocent people are saved If ishrat was a innocent then no one is gonna support this encounter. As she is proven to be a terrorist i dont care how she is killed

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Hey AAPtard should we care how a terrorist is killed ?. end of the day innocent people are saved If ishrat was a innocent then no one is gonna support this encounter. As she is proven to be a terrorist i dont care how she is killed

Sure, if 2000 innocent people get killed in 2002 riots, what difference does it make to Bhakti how a terrorist get killed.