"Innocent" Ishrat Jahan

[Joe Shearer]

These are extremely bad analogies, and display a fundamental ignorance of how the law is deployed.

ok two militants, were killed by IA boys yesterday.... what if tomorrow a petition is filed for them saying they were just smugglers not terrorists, they were falsely targeted and the entire encounter was faked?

So what? This can only be filed, not as a petition, by which presumably you are referring to a direct application to court, but as an FIR. Nobody can apply direct to court; the court will quite properly tell them to go and see the police about it.

If such an FIR is filed, the police investigate the matter. If it is genuine, they then convert the FIR and start looking for the perpetrators. If not, they note it accordingly and drop the matter.

These hypothetical cases are puzzling in the extreme.

what do you do then, what happens to morale of security forces, these chaps are laying their live day in day out for what? to be second guessed for everything, and harassed.

Nothing happens to the morale of the Army. There may be a lot that affects the morale of a policeman, but sadly, they are not trained to deal with these situations, and, as a direct result, they create a mess, they are subjected to investigative and sometimes punitive investigation.

What happened to the the IB officials who tracked this entire intel, what was the treatment dealt out to them?

The IB is supposed to function as information- and intelligence-gatherers. They are not the CID. Please find out the difference. In this case, they took a terribly wrong role upon themselves, and it led directly to the killings.

Aren't we making the vanguard think ten times before he strikes that it might come back to haunt him, because he did his duty to protect the people.

No.

You are labouring under a misapprehension. None of this happens in normal cases. It happens in case of fake 'encounters' and it is in those cases that people fear investigation.

and where will we stop, should we question tomorrow, during a border flareup that Pakistani high commission has complained that Indian side fired first, lets now investigate which guard fired ?

But aren't you aware that the higher echelons of command always check the facts, irrespective of what they represent to the world at large? Do you imagine that a general officer takes every statement at face value, and does not try to validate what happened? If you think so, did you see what happened during Kargil, when a division commander tried to bury his criminal neglect of the situation as it was unfolding by saying that he was going by what his brigadier had said? (The brigadier hadn't, but that didn't stop the major general.) This is what happens if the seniors do not value evidence on the ground....

I am fine with whichever direction is taken by the law makers they are much smarter than I can ever be, I am just a simpleton who doesn't understand much of the politics and associated legalities, when a big tree fall earth shudders without any implications., but pre-emptive action on a terrorists needs to be clamped down upon with all the might of courts. I might have bit more than i can chew, I will limit myself to aviation and equipment threads.

Did you see any partisan behaviour favouring the congress in this particular thread?

[fapologies to both you and @Joe Shearer

@Joe Shearer Bhai what are you doing here on a fine Saturday evening ?

Take Bhabi out for dinner or better yet cook some for Bhabi and serve it with love while you sing 'O meri zohra jabeen tujhee malooon nahin tou abhi tuk hai haseeen aur mein jawaaan...' !

Woh programme toh ho gaya.

 

[Eminent Mainstream Media]

Perhaps you didn't get my point

- It is not a war - if the action is on domestic soil. To say such is a height of a folly for reasons which is obvious.
- Most of the US actions of elimination were on foreign soil. That's why have external and internal intelligent agencies. Internal Agencies like IB have to work within confines of Indian constitutions while RAW gets a relatively free hand.
- Much more intelligence would have been achieved via arrest and interrogation of Ishrat Jahan. To kill them is wasteful.
- Killing such domestic terrorists when there is a even a shadow of doubts makes them a martyr.
- Not everyone is on the same team. Not even our elected leaders. Why give them a opportunity to further harm our nation.

I don't understand where you are taking this-

-Most wars India fought have had action on domestic soil- Can your wish or mine to turn a blind eye change the realities of present day warfare-
-I suppose your understanding of IB comes with formation of RAW and the distinction you associate with Its formation- Let me put it this way If RAW is an external intel- agency It doesn't mean IB is an internal intel- agency-
-This is the reason why Pakistanis laugh at us- getting intelligence from Ishrat is similar to seeking intelligence from that Pigeon or that camel named Musharraf-
-How indifferent is the sympathy for Ishrat from that shown for Rajeev Killers or Beant Killers or Yakub or Afzal or Godse-
-Aren't they doing enough harm already- How feasible is the solution to ignore the political mess just in hope to deny them opportunities for harming the Nation- because the last time such a thing happened Pakistan was born and things have been worse ever since-

 

[Eminent Mainstream Media]

I don't want to take sides but I do find that the other side has strong points too. The key point Verma makes is that it takes quite a bit of training to become a 'Fidayeen'- takes about 15 days to learn how to even shoot properly. So any mapping of her time spent in past doesn't indicate so much of time spent in training.


Ishrat Jehan: 'Brilliant Op' But 'Fake Encounter,' Says Investigator Satish Verma

I think you need to know this Verma before making your key points-

-This person has been accused of helping Sattar Maulana to eascape from his custody- Sattar Maulana is the the person who brought RDX from Pakistan to Gosbara near Porbandar and that RDX was used in Mumbai blasts of 93-

-He was suspended in 1997 when as DSP Porbandar, Jasu Gagan Shiyal was killed in alleged fake encounter-

-He was also accused torturing people he picked to death and hanging them in Police custody- It was done to benefit rival gangs or underworld mafias-

This person was never a CBI officer and was brought just to probe Ishrat case after two CBI officer refused to tow the investigation on the lines of Chidambram-

And the last thing I would say here is- Its not hard to brainwash a motivated person- 15 days may be a bit long- a teen can be turned into an explosive bag in just 72 hours- Those with even slightest background into these things will tell you that-

I don't want to take sides but I do find that the other side has strong points too. The key point Verma makes is that it takes quite a bit of training to become a 'Fidayeen'- takes about 15 days to learn how to even shoot properly. So any mapping of her time spent in past doesn't indicate so much of time spent in training.


Ishrat Jehan: 'Brilliant Op' But 'Fake Encounter,' Says Investigator Satish Verma

I think you need to know this Verma before making your key points-

-This person has been accused of helping Sattar Maulana to eascape from his custody- Sattar Maulana is the the person who brought RDX from Pakistan to Gosbara near Porbandar and that RDX was used in Mumbai blasts of 93-

-He was suspended in 1997 when as DSP Porbandar, Jasu Gagan Shiyal was killed in alleged fake encounter-

-He was also accused torturing people he picked to death and hanging them in Police custody- It was done to benefit rival gangs or underworld mafias-

This person was never a CBI officer and was brought just to probe Ishrat case after two CBI officer refused to tow the investigation on the lines of Chidambram-

And the last thing I would say here is- Its not hard to brainwash a motivated person- 15 days may be a bit long- a teen can be turned into an explosive bag in just 72 hours- Those with even slightest background into these things will tell you that-

 

[axisofevil]

Unpleasantness aside, there are ways and means to handle such "encounters". What happens in our "wild west" cannot happen in centres of civilisation, Mumbai being a very peculiar exception due to multitude of extraneous factors associated and game within games being played there by Indian Intelligence agencies in the era such things used to happen and a certain gentleman was charge d'affairs.

Suffice to say all the grandstanding on my part is not out of some bleeding heart syndrome for Ishrat Jahan but out of disgust for how the things have folded out in large part due to incompetency of actors involved and rank political opportunism.

Many of the posters here are too young (not you and Joe) to look beyond than the current events of the millennium. Old timers may recall the security dynamics of PVN era and before. The security situation was way more critical but dealt with minimum of fuss in the mainland. Those days people used to think beyond enforcement and dared to go reach for exploitation.

This "exploitation" aspect is missing in recent times and operations are geared for media headlines. Sad state of affairs really in my opinion.

P.S. Apologies for being deliberately dense.



Boyoh i know it's tough but try to be civil. As for congress today, they are rotting corpse of a party which bled for India and is largely responsible for keeping it intact all these years against many odds. It is easy to beat on a dead horse but takes gumption to take on the lion in it's den.

Congress wouldn't give a chance to anyone else but itself to keep India intact. Look at the framed BS charges against Modi all these yrs. The fact that manipulated data to purposely hold Modi back is quite clear.