"Innocent" Ishrat Jahan

[Dragon4]

Congress used the case to frame Modi and Shah when they were in power, now its BJP's time to screw Congress; All top tier congress leaders in some mess or the another. Lets see how PC gets away when Jaya is on his tail too. Typical politics, dont get so warmed up

 

[nair]

Unlike you, we didn't vote him to throne

You will not understand how democracy works....

For record your PM was financially helped by world's month notorious terrorist named OBL

 

[Brahmaputra Mail]

Why not a single round fire from inside, as per investigation all the bullets was from out side no evidence recovered to suggest they fire a single round from inside.
@Levina
Ishrat receive bullet in her upper back while sitting in a car (front seat) while as per police records the fire from the side...now tell me how can bullet hit a person on his / her back when fired from side.

First volley of bullets shattered the window-glass. Human tendency is to bow down after that. Then second volley of bullets hit her back.

 

[Random Jan-e-mann]

She went with two guys to purchase arms in kanpur UP ( Ishrat Jahan fake encounter case: Javed, Rana failed to buy gun in UP - Times of India )

Why they need gun ? they already have Ak-47 plus many handguns .... as u people said they are LeT operatives why they need to buy Gun LeT as per other allegation can arrange guns simply....

First volley of bullets shattered the window-glass. Human tendency is to bow down after that. Then second volley of bullets hit her back.

straight at 90 degree waooo...how comes still wound will cause side to side entrance...how come back to front...check the autopsy reports.

Unless she was trying to run from the police, which is a possibility if she was a terrorist who tried to escape.

What alme excuse they all dead inside the car, check the events of the encounter even the eyewitneses saw the car stoped for a long time before Police starts shooting, i must say bad staged drama.

 

[Spectre]

I personally have no issue with fake encounter, it might sound horrible, but that is how Bengal Naxals, Punjab Khalistan, Mumbai Underworld, all were brought under control.
As far as Ishrat Jehan being an outfit of terror organisation, how can that be if our dear politicians say she is Bihar ki beti?

this is the national family perhaps.
Ishrat- Beti
Afzal guru- Bhai
Maqbool Butt- baap
Bhatkal- Damaad


After Nitish, Lalu's son Tej Pratap Yadav calls Ishrat Jahan 'daughter of Bihar' | Zee News

I am hopeful that fortress of democracy and free speech will soon plead for the justice for the entire national family.

I have a couple of points which I need to make in the interest of sanity.

1. One can't condone fake encounters for reasons of convenience in a legal society. Once we start down that road, then what's to stop anyone inconvenient to the authoritarian narrative being given a similar "Good Bye". The issue here is not of guilt of Ishrat Jahan but to the circumstances leading to her death and the possible allegations regarding abortion of justice via denial of her day in court. Even the most disgusting and lowest among us must be judged according to laws of the land and given a fair hearing. Why else give a trial to likes Yakoob Menon, Afzal Guru, Kasab, Godse and others?

2. The other point which is important is that by using encounters frequently we only make them martyrs. We give this fight the legitimacy of this being a "War" which terrorism is most certainly not. Terrorism is plain and simple "murder" and needs to be deal as a matter of criminal justice system via probable cause, charge sheets, arrests, evidence discovery and trial under the constitution of India.

Martin Luther King said it best "Injustice Anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere"

@Joe Shearer @Levina @Abingdonboy

 

[Levina]

What alme excuse they all dead inside the car, check the events of the encounter even the eyewitneses saw the car stoped for a long time before Police starts shooting, i must say bad staged drama.

Even if it was staged i will support our agencies, for the ones killed had a proven track record as LeT operators.

 

[MilSpec]

I have a couple of points which I need to make in the interest of sanity.

1. One can't condone fake encounters for reasons of convenience in a legal society. Once we start down that road, then what's to stop anyone inconvenient to the authoritarian narrative being given a similar "Good Bye". The issue here is not of guilt of Ishrat Jahan but to the circumstances leading to her death and the possible allegations regarding abortion of justice via her day in court. Even the most disgusting and lowest among us must be judged according to laws of the land and given a fair hearing. Why else give a trial to likes Yakoob Menon, Afzal Guru, Kasab, Godse and others?

2. The other point which is important is that by using encountes frequently we only make them martyrs. We give this fight the legitimacy of this being a "War" which terrorism is most certainly not. Terrorism is plain and simple "murder" and needs to be deal as a matter of criminal justice system via probable cause, charge sheets, arrests, evidence discovery and trial under the constitution of India.

Martin Luther King said it best "Injustice Anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere"

@Joe Shearer @Levina @Abingdonboy

Sounds really nice, sane, and politically correct.
As I said, my personal opinion is security forces of India, will come across the situation where they know they need to eliminate a threat, I am ok with them taking them out, same should have been done with masood azhar, zargar, dawood, tiger memon, and co. My opinion doesn't need to be correct, I can be absolutely wrong.

"Once we start down that road, then what's to stop anyone inconvenient to the authoritarian narrative being given a similar "Good Bye". - By design of intent. The intent by the certain mandate to security forces would be to ensure elimination of terror threat, that is where the conscience of security forces comes in. When they saw what khalistani terrorist were doing, they took the decision to do what they did, similarly in Mumbai underworld encounters, it was planned to combat the nature of the beast. neither Punjab not mumbai became dictatorships.

 

[Spectre]

Sounds really nice, sane, and politically correct.
As I said, my personal opinion is security forces of India, will come across the situation where they know they need to eliminate a threat, I am ok with them taking them out, same should have been done with masood azhar, zargar, dawood, tiger memon, and co. My opinion doesn't need to be correct, I can be absolutely wrong.

If anyone resists arrest then Police and other authorities always have the avenue open to use justifiable amount of force to enforce arrest and take measures to defend themselves and if that results in elimination of the perpetrators then so be it.

One also needs to make a distinction between enemy combatants which tools of Lashkars are and Indian citizens. While Indian citizens have rights an enemy combatant on Indian soil like Kasab don't. Enemy combatant on foreign soil like Azhar are outside of the purview of Indian laws and are to be dealt with at the discretion of PM and his advisors.

One needs to face the reality that not every one puts nation before self and political parties can and do make use of the opportunities presented by fissures in our society for electoral and personal gains. They will resort to rabble rousing and incite passions of minority communities at the detriment of very integrity of our country. In such a scenario all my reasoning goes for a toss and may be what you advocate can seem like a prudent course of action but as I said this is a tough dilemma which would test very foundations of our society and country.

 

[Levina]

I have a couple of points which I need to make in the interest of sanity.

1. One can't condone fake encounters for reasons of convenience in a legal society. Once we start down that road, then what's to stop anyone inconvenient to the authoritarian narrative being given a similar "Good Bye". The issue here is not of guilt of Ishrat Jahan but to the circumstances leading to her death and the possible allegations regarding abortion of justice via denial of her day in court. Even the most disgusting and lowest among us must be judged according to laws of the land and given a fair hearing. Why else give a trial to likes Yakoob Menon, Afzal Guru, Kasab, Godse and others?

2. The other point which is important is that by using encounters frequently we only make them martyrs. We give this fight the legitimacy of this being a "War" which terrorism is most certainly not. Terrorism is plain and simple "murder" and needs to be deal as a matter of criminal justice system via probable cause, charge sheets, arrests, evidence discovery and trial under the constitution of India.

Martin Luther King said it best "Injustice Anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere"

@Joe Shearer @Levina @Abingdonboy

Frankly speaking i do not see anything wrong in shooting down few terrorists in a fake encounter. We can not wait till they cause a carnage.

 

[Spectre]

Frankly speaking i do not see anything wrong in shooting down few terrorists in a fake encounter. We can not wait till they cause a carnage.

If you are in a position to shoot them then surely you are in a position to arrest them. If arrest cannot be made then it points to glaring tactical deficiencies in the police which need to be corrected. Of-course if in process of executing an arrest the terrorist resists violently so much so that his/her existence is a threat to well being of officers on the ground then he/she can be terminated.

P.S. Police are trained in the SOP and RoE. I will not countenance killing for convenience, anything else is fair game

 

[MilSpec]

If anyone resists arrest then Police and other authorities always have the avenue open to use justifiable amount of force to enforce arrest and take measures to defend themselves and if that results in elimination of the perpetrators then so be it.

One also needs to make a distinction between enemy combatants which tools of Lashkars are and Indian citizens. While Indian citizens have rights an enemy combatant on Indian soil like Kasab don't. Enemy combatant on foreign soil like Azhar are outside of the purview of Indian laws and are to be dealt with at the discretion of PM and his advisors.

One needs to face the reality that not every one puts nation before self and political parties can and do make use of the opportunities presented by fissures in our society for electoral and personal gains. They will resort to rabble rousing and incite passions of minority communities at the detriment of very integrity of our country. In such a scenario all my reasoning goes for a toss and may be what you advocate can seem like a prudent course of action but as I said this is a tough dilemma which would test very foundations of our society and country.

Sure... all sound hunky dory.
all said and done, I still dont have a problem with forces taking out scumbags.
regards.

 

[Spectre]

Sure... all sound hunky dory.
all said and done, I still dont have a problem with forces taking out scumbags.
regards.

And good Sir, how do you arrive at a conclusion that they indeed were "scumbags" and not some patsy served on a platter for promotions and other incentives which come in play

 

[SrNair]

but this way create more violence janab . violence will bring more violence

I dont think so janab .Salaskar ,Kakare and others did so much extrajudicial killings ( sometimes it was 75 in a day) for Mumbai's security .And I think that worked out very well .

innocent or not but it was fake encounter

Of Course that was a fake encounter based on the tips of a IB's intel .
But anyone that has minimum common sense would think about one basic fact .What was this ' young woman' doing with some strangers in a car ?What was her urgent requirement in Gujarat ?
The other guy in that video was a Keralite .To be precise he was from Thamarakkulam ,Noornad ,Alappuzha .His real name was Pranesh Kumar Pillai ,a hindu .Then converted in to Muslim to marry here
If she was alone with him there wouldnt be any problem .Because both of them are Indians .But what was those two Pakistanis doing in there?.

Lolzzz

Ishrat Jehan Case: Chidambaram Rewrote Affidavit, Bypassed Me, Says GK Pillai - NDTV.com

Congress used so much nasty political tricks to bog down the political future of Narendra Modi .They used 2002 riots , this encounter case and alots of others .But they failed miserably why?
Because they didnt thought about a younger gen educated Indians.They cant fool them .

 

[Sipahi]

You will not understand how democracy works....

For record your PM was financially helped by world's month notorious terrorist named OBL

In 80s and early 90s, when the western world was praising them as Mujaheedeen and The American President was kissing their cheeks and CIA planting them in Afghanistan.

And you PM a proven murderer of more then 3000 muslims ? Teri jamhoriyat tujhe mubarak

 

[Abingdonboy]

I have a couple of points which I need to make in the interest of sanity.

1. One can't condone fake encounters for reasons of convenience in a legal society. Once we start down that road, then what's to stop anyone inconvenient to the authoritarian narrative being given a similar "Good Bye". The issue here is not of guilt of Ishrat Jahan but to the circumstances leading to her death and the possible allegations regarding abortion of justice via denial of her day in court. Even the most disgusting and lowest among us must be judged according to laws of the land and given a fair hearing. Why else give a trial to likes Yakoob Menon, Afzal Guru, Kasab, Godse and others?

2. The other point which is important is that by using encounters frequently we only make them martyrs. We give this fight the legitimacy of this being a "War" which terrorism is most certainly not. Terrorism is plain and simple "murder" and needs to be deal as a matter of criminal justice system via probable cause, charge sheets, arrests, evidence discovery and trial under the constitution of India.

Martin Luther King said it best "Injustice Anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere"

@Joe Shearer @Levina @Abingdonboy

In a utopian world I would agree with you sir but I think it is unfair to ignore the threat these scumbags do present and by not calling this a "war" you are being rather unfair. This is a war in all but name, it is a war waged by an enemy state with all of the same objectives and machinery as any conventional military offensive.

The fact remains that these incidents are exceptionally rare and this was an inteligence driven operation that was increidbly succesful. India has enough examples of what can happen if you fail to eliminate these kinds of threats. The enemy is at India's gates, it is not the time to try and take the moral high ground because these man made laws will only be exploited by enemies of the state, does ISAF/NATO ever attempt to capture terrorists in FATA, Syria/Iraq or Afghanistan? Did Seal Team Six go into Abbotobad with a search warrent and handcuffs? No, they went in with body bags. The enemy has no regard for your laws, they only seek to destroy every thing you hold dear, sometimes you have to treat them the only way you know how.

These weren't petty criminals but terrorists, two of who were enemy combatants (Pakistanis), I don't think the security forces acted in an unreasonable manner, they are simply bound by archaic laws and a lack of a clear cut anti-terror framework. @Levina

I don't have much issue with their executions other than the IB lost the opportunity to glean valuable intel from these losers.

@MilSpec

And you PM a proven murderer of more then 3000 muslims ? Teri jamhoriyat tujhe mubarak

Utter BS, who has "proven" this?

And good Sir, how do you arrive at a conclusion that they indeed were "scumbags" and not some patsy served on a platter for promotions and other incentives which come in play

The role the IB played in this makes it abudently clear. This was not some chance encounter but an operation intiated based on direct intel provided by the IB after months of investigation, monitering and interceptions. This is a huge success story for India but look how it has been framed by those with nerfarious motives.