India's Mighty Su-30MKI Fighter Jets Have a Big Problem

[Donatello]

Fighter planes like SU30 MKI can never have availability more than 85%.
Non availability problem arises due to non availability of certain parts and less overall capacity of HAL. So govt decided to stockpile the spares for 3 years taking the note

Stocking spares, ramping up spares production can have a huge effect on aircraft availability. Plus, increase in annual overhaul capacity to 15 and then to 30 units at HAL would improve availability percentage too.

Quote:
23rd Oct 14
...
According to ministry of defence (MoD) figures accessed by Business Standard, the serviceability rate of the Su-30MKI was just 48 per cent till last year. The remaining fighters were undergoing repair or maintenance.

Today, availability has risen slightly to 55 per cent, far lower than advanced western air forces, which generate 80-85 per cent availability rates. In terms of aircraft numbers, only 106 of the 193 Su-30MKIs that the IAF flies today would be available in war. The remaining 87 fighters, each worth Rs 358 crore at current prices, would remain on the ground.
...
According to figures presented in those meeting (a) 20 per cent of the fleet, i.e. some 39 Su-30MKIs, are undergoing “first line” and “second line” maintenance or inspections at any time, which is the IAF’s responsibility; (b) Another 11-12 per cent of the fleet is undergoing major repair and overhaul by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL); and (c) 13-14 per cent of the fleet is grounded, awaiting major systems or repairs --- the technical terms is: “aircraft on ground”.
...
To ensure that 13-14 per cent of the Su-30MKI fleet is not grounded for want of spares, HAL has stockpiled spares worth Rs 400 crore in Nashik. According to S Subrahmanyan, the chief of HAL’s Nashik facility, the inventory is based on a study of consumption patterns of Su-30MKI spares over the preceding five years.

That 13-14% awaiting major systems and repairs is where serviceability gains will be made. This is around 28 aircrafts (for a fleet of 200 Su-30 MKIs) that would be available quicker. [Note: 55% + 14% = 69% availability potential]

The availability of 70% of russian MKI is also high compare availability of F-22. Thats why govt decided to order very high qty of MKI

regards


IAF provides its fleet wise serviceability of all types at regular periods. It is an important measure of Op Preparedness. It was not a deliberate act to selectively issue out only Su 30 data. Even M2K data was released.

IIRC, it was a question in the parliament which got the Su 30 serviceability data attention it got. It was also in focus after the last Su 30 crashed and the fleet was kept on ground for some time.

I will point to an article on NDTV which is an interesting case of pulling data out of musharraff. The article mostly quotes the Defence Ministers reply in Parliament but when it quotes serviceability % it suddenly quotes an unnamed senior IAF officer.

Sukhoi-30 MKI, Air Force's Most Modern Fighter Jet, Plagued by Engine Trouble

I think the % servicability of SU30 and F/A22 are two different things. USAF still has thousands of F-16s and F-15s to count on. What does IAF have? A hundred odd aircraft capable of true 21st century warfare? And M2K fleet itself is undergoing upgrades, plus the Mig29.

 

[Windjammer]

janab thing is all western and indian media who is into such subjects is funded by defnce contractors to create a hysteria which is cahnnelled towards indians and MOD to show IAFs weaknesses so that IAF/MOD buys their hradware in huge numbers ... kya samjhe

rahi baat hosh khonne ki to miya khan abhi uska time nahi hua hai

Guru Bahi, during their service with IAF, the MKIs have been grounded at least three times due to defects in engine fan blades, fuel pumps and ejection mechanism.....was this all created by media.... and why would media target a platform which has been in IAF service for almost two decades and why doesn't Western media targets, Indonesia, Malaysia or other SU-30 users..... but any ways, believe what you must.

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

Folks, my sole purpose for opening this thread is to learn from Indian and Russian members some technical details and reason why this superb fighter is having some technical issues. I am requesting other members to kindly not derail the thread by using this thread to score points and settle scores. Let us discuss this as adults. Thank you for your support.

The engine burnout issue to which the author is referring to has already been sorted out -

Sukhoi engine burnout issue sorted: HAL

Union Minister Rajiv Pratap Rudy in Sukhoi Su-30MKI, ready to take off in Bangalore on Thursday. ANI​

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited on Thursday said the issue of frequent mid-air engine burnouts of the India’s front line fighter jet, the Sukhoi-30MKI, has been corrected.

HAL, a Ministry of Defence owned company, is the Indian integrator and producer of the Russian origin twin engines fighter – the main stay of the Indian Air Force (IAF) in its preparation for a simultaneous two-front war scenario with Pakistan and China.

The Sukhoi-30MKI faced repeated mid-air engine failures between 2012 and 2013, after which the IAF asked the Russians to rectify the problem in the fighter jet.

The Tribune had first highlighted the issue in a news report on July 21.

The Sukhoi engine was ordered to be modified under new specifications laid down by its Russian manufacturers to fix mid-air engine trouble in its fleet.

In a press conference at the three-day event of Aero India in Bangalore, HAL’s MiG division managing director S Subramanyam today said: “All modifications have been successfully carried out and this included a more frequent oil changes for proper lubrication of that moving parts.”

Subramanyam said the modified engines have been tested to their limits and since June 2014 there have been no mid-air engine failure.

The IAF has a fleet of 200 Sukhoi aircraft and another 72 are on their way from Moscow.

Sources said the modification will be carried out on 400 engines of the twin-engine aircraft, besides installation of some spares for emergencies. The Russians will install modified engines on the next lot of 72 jets, sources said.

The modification on existing engines has been carried out at HAL’s Sukhoi engine plant in Orissa.

The refit will be carried out in batches over the next 18-24 months.

The Russians had assured India that the modifications will eliminate the problem of mid-air engine failure.

Sukhoi engines — the AL-31FP — produced by NPO Saturn of Russia have been working inconsistently. Since the engines powering the jet are still being produced, there is a scope for modification.

The IAF studied each failure in detail between 2012 and 2013.

The instances of single-engine Su-30MKI landings were very high during the period. This was lowering the operational ability of the fleet, besides raising questions about war readiness.

The Su-30MKI is a twin-engine aircraft and can land even if one of its engines fails mid-air. But this limits pilot’s ability to attack or withdraw during a conflict.

Source:- Sukhoi engine burnout issue sorted: HAL

The serviceability rate of the MKI's is likely to improve to 75 per cent by the end of this year from the last year level of 56-57 per cent.

Sukhoi's Serviceability To Improve By Year-End: Parrikar / Sputnik India English - News, Opinion, Radio

 

[Infinity]

Guru Bahi, during their service with IAF, the MKIs have been grounded at least three times due to defects in engine fan blades, fuel pumps and ejection mechanism.....was this all created by media.... and why would media target a platform which has been in IAF service for almost two decades and why doesn't Western media targets, Indonesia, Malaysia or other SU-30 users..... but any ways, believe what you must.

Simple..............What is the Defense Budget of these countries.....and ours you Know..... West requires a Pie from it

 

[knight11]

I think the % servicability of SU30 and F/A22 are two different things. USAF still has thousands of F-16s and F-15s to count on. What does IAF have? A hundred odd aircraft capable of true 21st century warfare? And M2K fleet itself is undergoing upgrades, plus the Mig29.

you are right but this is difference between Soviet and western designer and thinker. You can see how soviet design their Mig 21, because they think in war there is no need to make long lasting airplane because in war the avg life of airplane is of few 100 hours.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Su-30 have also been supplied to other nations such as Malaysia. Do they experience similar problems with the engines?

Secondly, the fighters initially supplied by the Russians experience similar engine issues or those are more prevalent in fighters rolling out of Nasik facility?

standard Indian web reply regarding Su-30s of other countries is that

they are all crap
worthless
and old junk



only Indian MKI is the best

 

[GURU DUTT]

Guru Bahi, during their service with IAF, the MKIs have been grounded at least three times due to defects in engine fan blades, fuel pumps and ejection mechanism.....was this all created by media.... and why would media target a platform which has been in IAF service for almost two decades and why doesn't Western media targets, Indonesia, Malaysia or other SU-30 users..... but any ways, believe what you must.

well thing is russian engine tech though is light yet powerfull but at the same time has serous issue with quality and all nations using russian engines face that pakistan , malasia and even china incleuded and thats the main western marketing ploy against their russian counterparts

things are not that bad in cold or cold and humid climate as they are in indian conditions where their bulk is used in hot , moist or dry hot conditions as russian hardware is developed primarrily in cold russian conditions hope you can understand that

 

[SrNair]

standard Indian web reply regarding Su-30s of other countries is that

they are all crap
worthless
and old junk



only Indian MKI is the best

In the Flanker series ,yes MKI is the best because of the advanced avionics configuration in it.

 

[NKVD]

The IAF operates 200 Su-30MKIs, but of these only 110 or 55% were operationally available due to poor serviceability, Parrikar said, adding that this would increase to 70% by the end of 2015.

@Windjammer
You Also Forgetting to Add Most important Fact That IAF is Adding New 15-16 MKI Each Year Till Number Gets 272 Or Even Beyond As its Only Cost Mere 58 Million $ Per Piece And We have All Manufacturing Capability That We Gained For this Deal to Carry These Numbers Further.

 

[[Bregs]]

It is a fact that quantity has a quality all its own. Including aircraft under order, India’s Sukhoi-30 MKI fleet is currently pegged at 272. It is an impressive number for such a high-end and expensive weapons platform. This shows a keen sense of judgement by the IAF, which realises that 100 per cent fleet utilisation is impossible and having a large number of air superiority aircraft around is the key to getting the job done.

 

[GURU DUTT]

@Windjammer
You Also Forgetting to Add Most important Fact That IAF is Adding New 16 MKI Each Year Till Number Gets 272 Or Even Beyond As its Only Cost Mere 58 Million $ Per Piece And We have All Manufacturing Capability That We Gained For this Deal to Carry These Numbers Further.

but the real strenth oh indian flankers are its mix of french , isaeli avionicks & Jammers on it and once the new AESA radar is fully tested in russia its gonna be a real beast even in its current format three MKIs flying in a formation are as good as an AWACS platform

 

[[Bregs]]

but the real strenth oh indian flankers are its mix of french , isaeli avionicks & Jammers on it and once the new AESA radar is fully tested in russia its gonna be a real beast even in its current format three MKIs flying in a formation are as good as an AWACS platform

India has chosen to buy barebones Sukhois from Russia and then cram them with Israeli and French equipment. Plus, the already excellent Bars radar, which can track an aircraft at 125 km and a battle tank 40 km away, is being replaced with the Russian Zhuk active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars.

Another quantum leap the IAF is making is in beyond visual range (BVR) missiles for the Su-30 MKI. Complementing the Zhuk radar will be the Novator KS-172 air-air missile, with an estimated 300-400 km range and a speed of Mach 4. If Russia and India can bring this missile to production, the IAF will finally be capable of anti-AWACS and anti-satellites missions.

 

[knight11]

I would also want to suggest why IAF don't use mould Tejas MKI trainer for the MKI pilot training because MKI is been used for fighter training presently (Twin seater). Here the glass cockpit can mimik the gadgets and instruments of MKI thus increasing the Technical Service Life.

India has chosen to buy barebones Sukhois from Russia and then cram them with Israeli and French equipment. Plus, the already excellent Bars radar, which can track an aircraft at 125 km and a battle tank 40 km away, is being replaced with the Russian Zhuk active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars.

Another quantum leap the IAF is making is in beyond visual range (BVR) missiles for the Su-30 MKI. Complementing the Zhuk radar will be the Novator KS-172 air-air missile, with an estimated 300-400 km range and a speed of Mach 4. If Russia and India can bring this missile to production, the IAF will finally be capable of anti-AWACS and anti-satellites missions.

That will be the part of Super Sukhoi Upgradation plan. Upgradation of Bar or not but Aesa is confirmed add airframe hardening for carrying 3 mini Brahmos, Air launch Nirbhyay through center line, New upgraded Mission computer by DARE, upgraded Tarang MK2, upgraded navigation system, DASH Helmet.

 

[Donatello]

you are right but this is difference between Soviet and western designer and thinker. You can see how soviet design their Mig 21, because they think in war there is no need to make long lasting airplane because in war the avg life of airplane is of few 100 hours.

Well, the design philosophy behind the Flanker series is very different than the Mig21. Flankers came out of the need to counter American F-15s, just like the Mig29 came to counter the Mirage/Tornado/F-16s. While the Mig29 did have it's own issues, it still is not disposable.
Flanker is not a cheap aircraft, you don't build such a large aircraft as disposable.
Mig21 was simple in construction, that is why they built thousands of them, but not the same case with flankers.

 

[he-man]

There have been no fewer than 69 investigations involving engine failures since 2012, according to Parrikar. Between January 2013 and December 2014 alone, the Indian Air Force recorded 35 technical problems with the turbofans

Whos fault it is??

Russia's??

Nope.

We are still using the old al-31 series when even chinese have moved on to the improved one with 132 kn thrust.can anyone confirm this??

Are we using this?

Or this???

If we are still with al-31f simple or the first one then our air force and ministry is the most stupid one in this world.

AL-31

Its a different series,al-31fn series 3 engine.A further upgradation of al-31f(series 42)m1