Indian Navy P-8I tracks Pak Navy's PNS Yarmook corvette

[Basel]

No I can't prove it because this is not published by Haq musing. P8 I is considered to be the best surveillance air craft of world but that is not proof.



With same magic by which a donkey can do a return trip to moon in one night. I hail its capability to remain hidden.

Best Surveillance aircraft does not mean it can track its opponents all the time, its cats and mouse game and P-8I will have run for its money against very capable AIP submarines and stealth ships in hostilities.

 

[Chanakyaa]

That makes sense. The IN is building out an amazing aerial ISR/ISTAR capability -- it starts with their large P-8I fleet (which is as good as it gets LRMPA-wise), and they've got the MH-60Rs in the pipeline with plans for the Reaper MALE UAV.

We're seeing the PN basically emulate what the IN is doing, e.g., pursue a jet-powered LRMPA to build-out an analogous ISR/ISTAR capability, pursue MALE UAVs and so on.

The PN had even been looking for an MH-60R-like helicopter (if not the MH-60R itself if the US is willing to sell it) from Europe. I think they'll settle this soon, e.g., either with a high-cost option like NH-90/AW159 or a heavy mod of the AW139M or AW189K.

However, they should also think asymmetrically.

IMO it might be worth shuffling any plans for additional surface ships (e.g., follow-on 054A/Ps or MILGEM-Js) and pivot to SWAT submarines. It'd be a lot more difficult to track those, and it pairs better with an A2/AD strategy (to thwart an MEZ attempt).

Plus, they can scale out a large number of SWAT submarines if they select low-cost inputs (e.g., propulsion, electronics, etc). I'd rather 12+ SWAT submarines being an unpredictable variable than 4+ frigates that can obviously be seen.

Fantastic Post Mate. We need More of these.

Best Surveillance aircraft does not mean it can track its opponents all the time, its cats and mouse game and P-8I will have run for its money against very capable AIP submarines and stealth ships in hostilities.

True. Thats the Game.

 

[JamD]

That makes sense. The IN is building out an amazing aerial ISR/ISTAR capability -- it starts with their large P-8I fleet (which is as good as it gets LRMPA-wise), and they've got the MH-60Rs in the pipeline with plans for the Reaper MALE UAV.

We're seeing the PN basically emulate what the IN is doing, e.g., pursue a jet-powered LRMPA to build-out an analogous ISR/ISTAR capability, pursue MALE UAVs and so on.

The PN had even been looking for an MH-60R-like helicopter (if not the MH-60R itself if the US is willing to sell it) from Europe. I think they'll settle this soon, e.g., either with a high-cost option like NH-90/AW159 or a heavy mod of the AW139M or AW189K.

However, they should also think asymmetrically.

IMO it might be worth shuffling any plans for additional surface ships (e.g., follow-on 054A/Ps or MILGEM-Js) and pivot to SWAT submarines. It'd be a lot more difficult to track those, and it pairs better with an A2/AD strategy (to thwart an MEZ attempt).

Plus, they can scale out a large number of SWAT submarines if they select low-cost inputs (e.g., propulsion, electronics, etc). I'd rather 12+ SWAT submarines being an unpredictable variable than 4+ frigates that can obviously be seen.

I think there is some merit in trying to match a part of the IN's capability with respect to jet MPA. But you're right, Pakistan always has to be looking at an asymmetric response. I wonder what happened to the SWAT thread (has been quite for a long time). I doubt we would hear anything because it would be super classified.

PN is probably thinking heavily about net-centric warfare with surface vessels and coastal batteries getting targeting data from MPA and possibly UAVs. In the asymmetry department I would like to see more investment in new and faster FACs that are fed targeting data by aerial assets. Not sure if it would be doable but a slightly larger FAC could launch a fleet of high-speed drones that could give the FAC targeting data. Wouldn't be ideal but would basically make the FAC independent of any MPA giving it targeting data.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I think there is some merit in trying to match a part of the IN's capability with respect to jet MPA. But you're right, Pakistan always has to be looking at an asymmetric response. I wonder what happened to the SWAT thread (has been quite for a long time). I doubt we would hear anything because it would be super classified.

PN is probably thinking heavily about net-centric warfare with surface vessels and coastal batteries getting targeting data from MPA and possibly UAVs. In the asymmetry department I would like to see more investment in new and faster FACs that are fed targeting data by aerial assets. Not sure if it would be doable but a slightly larger FAC could launch a fleet of high-speed drones that could give the FAC targeting data. Wouldn't be ideal but would basically make the FAC independent of any MPA giving it targeting data.

IIRC the PN had moved the SWAT program in-house in 2016-2017. So, if there are any talks in that regard with suppliers, it'll be in that context. I take 'going in-house' might in part have been to classify the specs. Moreover, Turkey's STM did submit a proposal to the PN, but it's being shy about going any further. I take it the SWAT project may be a bespoke design managed by NRDI now (with select foreign suppliers involved).

Likewise, there was a new FAC requirement in 2016 for 4-6 boats, and that too fell off the radar publicly. Last the PN mentioned anything, it said it was talking to Turkey and China (and the Turks said they offered the FAC-55).

IMHO no excuse to not use VTOL UAVs for localized ISR/ISTAR, especially when there are small enough AESA radars in the market. In this sense, the Yarmouk-class may be a test-bed for experimenting with such UAV designs.

Finally, the network-centric aspect is 100% true. The PN invested in a bespoke solution and had Turkey's MilSOFT help out -- i.e., NIXS (see here and here for more).

The Jinnah Class Frigates will also be equipped with the Naval Information Exchange System (NIXS) developed by MilSoft for the Pakistan Navy and the indigenous data-link system “Link Green.” The Pakistan Navy has established a nationwide communication infrastructure called RedLine to enable communication between NIXS-equipped platforms. ​

 

[SIPRA]

Well done Indians, well done!!!

This is such a path breaking achievement.... surely, USNavy will be trying to learn from the good Indians now...

And the PLAAN needs to produce more underwanter autonomous vechicles now... since PLAAN has become sitting duck! @Khanivore

Paa Jee: We must accept superiority of Indian forces, where it is genuine. They appear to be very advanced in tracking, monitoring, measuring and recording. I think that last year, on Feb 27, also, when PAF attacked them; they, instead of responding, resorted to taking measurements, making observations and preparing due records, for the benefit of future generations.

My salute to Indian armed forces.

 

[Areesh]

With same magic by which a donkey can do a return trip to moon in one night. I hail its capability to remain hidden.

So mighty Indian navy can use P8 to spot a surface ship which can be done by any aircraft in the world

But can't use P8 to track a submarine which exactly is its job

You guys along with your military a complete circus. Everyday adds to exactly this

 

[Surya 1]

So mighty Indian navy can use P8 to spot a surface ship which can be done by any aircraft in the world

But can't use P8 to track a submarine which exactly is its job

You guys along with your military a complete circus. Everyday adds to exactly this

It can spot anything. This news has just come in. Other may not come out. P8I is the best plane for such mission.

 

[Basel]

That makes sense. The IN is building out an amazing aerial ISR/ISTAR capability -- it starts with their large P-8I fleet (which is as good as it gets LRMPA-wise), and they've got the MH-60Rs in the pipeline with plans for the Reaper MALE UAV.

We're seeing the PN basically emulate what the IN is doing, e.g., pursue a jet-powered LRMPA to build-out an analogous ISR/ISTAR capability, pursue MALE UAVs and so on.

The PN had even been looking for an MH-60R-like helicopter (if not the MH-60R itself if the US is willing to sell it) from Europe. I think they'll settle this soon, e.g., either with a high-cost option like NH-90/AW159 or a heavy mod of the AW139M or AW189K.

However, they should also think asymmetrically.

IMO it might be worth shuffling any plans for additional surface ships (e.g., follow-on 054A/Ps or MILGEM-Js) and pivot to SWAT submarines. It'd be a lot more difficult to track those, and it pairs better with an A2/AD strategy (to thwart an MEZ attempt).

Plus, they can scale out a large number of SWAT submarines if they select low-cost inputs (e.g., propulsion, electronics, etc). I'd rather 12+ SWAT submarines being an unpredictable variable than 4+ frigates that can obviously be seen.

PN is adding its capabilities they ate short on funds but still added new MPA and Surveillance drones, they were working on UUVs but that is where they never let things out, PN will get capability to monitor Arabian Sea as they are not blue water navy, but in Indian ocean PLAN will be their eyes and ears for now.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You TRIED to take Advantage in 1999

Not even close to the same situation. Kargil was not separated by thousands of miles of Pakistani territory & Pakistan chose not to escalate the conflict into a major military engagement to match Indian deployments.

Let me repeat, 1971 was an anomaly because of geographic and local dynamics. India has no hope or capability of repeating 1971 in a full fledged military conflict with Pakistan.

 

[Areesh]

I agree,

Did you ask about "slaps" from one of your PAF Chiefs?

Hint :

PS : Ignore the text on the images. I dont Agree that ANY SOLDIER should be given words like that. Salute to this man and abhi.

Remember this IAF aircraft in Pakistani museum?

The guy who gifted this perfectly flying air craft later became this:

The idiot who made that picture didn't know history of his own mighty Bharati Vayu Sena

And so didn't you

 

[Bilal.]

Not even close to the same situation. Kargil was not separated by thousands of miles of Pakistani territory & Pakistan chose not to escalate the conflict into a major military engagement to match Indian deployments.

Let me repeat, 1971 was an anomaly because of geographic and local dynamics. India has no hope or capability of repeating 1971 in a full fledged military conflict with Pakistan.

Exactly and when they did try to emulate the same (Brasstacks and Parakaram) they realized precisely the same and had to back down.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

I think they'll settle this soon, e.g., either with a high-cost option like NH-90/AW159 or a heavy mod of the AW139M or AW189K.

No Chinese Option?

 

[Bilal.]

IIRC the PN had moved the SWAT program in-house in 2016-2017. So, if there are any talks in that regard with suppliers, it'll be in that context. I take 'going in-house' might in part have been to classify the specs. Moreover, Turkey's STM did submit a proposal to the PN, but it's being shy about going any further. I take it the SWAT project may be a bespoke design managed by NRDI now (with select foreign suppliers involved).

Likewise, there was a new FAC requirement in 2016 for 4-6 boats, and that too fell off the radar publicly. Last the PN mentioned anything, it said it was talking to Turkey and China (and the Turks said they offered the FAC-55).

IMHO no excuse to not use VTOL UAVs for localized ISR/ISTAR, especially when there are small enough AESA radars in the market. In this sense, the Yarmouk-class may be a test-bed for experimenting with such UAV designs.

Finally, the network-centric aspect is 100% true. The PN invested in a bespoke solution and had Turkey's MilSOFT help out -- i.e., NIXS (see here and here for more).

The Jinnah Class Frigates will also be equipped with the Naval Information Exchange System (NIXS) developed by MilSoft for the Pakistan Navy and the indigenous data-link system “Link Green.” The Pakistan Navy has established a nationwide communication infrastructure called RedLine to enable communication between NIXS-equipped platforms. ​

@JamD
Would a localized smaller scale version of SOSUN like network spreading at least our EEZ be technical and financially feasible?

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

IMO it might be worth shuffling any plans for additional surface ships (e.g., follow-on 054A/Ps or MILGEM-Js) and pivot to SWAT submarines. It'd be a lot more difficult to track those, and it pairs better with an A2/AD strategy (to thwart an MEZ attempt).

Sir Why not getting Long Range SAM Destroyers like Type 052Ds having range upto 200km? That would keep Jets like P8I away from our seas

 

[Areesh]

I P8I is the best plane for such mission.

But failed to track PNS saad for more than 20 days and is now fooling own nation with posting picture of a surface ship with no sensors

Even a Boeing 777 travelling to New York from Karachi can spot a surface shit

Come back when you can use these P8 to do something meaningful like this: