Indian Navy gets new MiG-29K carrier-borne fighters

[koushik]

and how superior in both of them can be compared to F-16 b60++??
i mean which is superior??

The MKI gives a very good match to the Blk-60+ due to its good radar,onboard avionics and the upgraded MKI will be better than the blk-60.As far as the MiG-29k to me will be little less than the Blk-60 but if it is upgraded with an AESA radar it will be great.The MKI can take care of the Blk-60 at BVR ranges whereas in WVR and close quarter combat both the MKI and MiG-29k due to their manueverability and coupled with HMS and R-73 AAM will beat the Blk-60.So to compare them overall,the situation is a bit even-stevens.

 

[IndianArmy]

What are they inspired by JFT's Black Panthers? Also Panthers for the Navey-- "je bat kuch hajam nahi hue" -- not even with Hajmola!

Technically the first Mig 29K Squadron "Black Panthers" were opened on 2009 ... And More over Indian Airforce has Black Panther squadron since 1957..... So who needs a Hajmola now?

 

[Omega007]

Dear Sancho,you are right.But one thing I can not understand is that why you always emphasys on rcs of a 4th gen fighter?True rcs of rafale should be no less than 1.5-2 squire meter.Besides the external stores will increase the rcs to atleast 4 to 5 sq meter.

 

[luckyyy]

I assume you mean the MMRCA trials, if so, you are mistaken because the Russians sent a modified Mig 29K and KUB to the trials and not a real Mig 35 prototype,

care to provide a source / proff of your claim..

 

[sancho]

Dear Sancho,you are right.But one thing I can not understand is that why you always emphasys on rcs of a 4th gen fighter?True rcs of rafale should be no less than 1.5-2 squire meter.Besides the external stores will increase the rcs to atleast 4 to 5 sq meter.

Because that is the most important factor of when a fighter will be detected and the Eurocanards has much more focus on a low RCS than the old design Migs. The 1.5 - 2 m² btw is estimated for the latest Migs, EF and Rafale are estimated below 1 (all in clean config of course), so if they have a lower RCS, the better BVR missiles, comparable, or even better detection capabilities, they will have an edge over the Mig in BVR and these new fighters (including the Mig 29Ks) have to be in service for nearly 40 years. One more reason why a small RCS, or better low observability are important for the future as well and these Russian fighters generally are not that good in this fields.

 

[kingdurgaking]

Because that is the most important factor of when a fighter will be detected and the Eurocanards has much more focus on a low RCS than the old design Migs. The 1.5 - 2 m² btw is estimated for the latest Migs, EF and Rafale are estimated below 1 (all in clean config of course), so if they have a lower RCS, the better BVR missiles, comparable, or even better detection capabilities, they will have an edge over the Mig in BVR and these new fighters (including the Mig 29Ks) have to be in service for nearly 40 years. One more reason why a small RCS, or better low observability are important for the future as well and these Russian fighters generally are not that good in this fields.

when in clean config it is fine.. but once they start adding drop tanks , missiles and all stores. you cant expect it to come below 5m2... 5m2 is enough for MiG and R-77 package ...
External stores are always a problem...

 

[sancho]

care to provide a source / proff of your claim..

I was the first that posted the pics of those prototypes in the MMRCA thread:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/4347-mrca-news-discussions-102.html#post761339

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/4347-mrca-news-discussions-102.html#post761342


Mig 29K / KUB airframe, but no hook and a modified nose to integrate a bigger radar. RD 33MK engines but no TVC nozzles, or integrated LDP and only 6 hardpoints on the wings, compared to 10 the Mig 35 models always showed at Aero India:

And I also showed that the Mig 35 prototype that often was shown at Aero India was just an older Mig 29M /M 2:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/89126-2-mig-35-rafale-eft-7.html#post1447479

 

[sancho]

when in clean config it is fine.. but once they start adding drop tanks , missiles and all stores. you cant expect it to come below 5m2... 5m2 is enough for MiG and R-77 package ...
External stores are always a problem...

Why do you expect the Eurocanards needs more fuel tanks than the Mig? All 3 carries close to 5t internal fuel, in A2A role in IAF, they would carry a single fuel tank if at all, so if you add the same number of tanks and AAMs, the Mig still has the highest RCS and will be detected and attacked way earlier.

Have to go, cya!

 

[luckyyy]

is this small image is enough to ride on you big claim ...

 

[tvsram1992]

Hey why are u comparing mki's with F-16?
Mki is ultimate.

 

[sancho]

is this small image is enough to ride on you big claim ...

So that is all you got out of my post?

Then let me break it down for you once again. Just like Saab had no production version of the Gripen E/F and has fielded the Gripen C, D and Demo (NG) to the trials, the Russians had no Mig 35 production version, just early demo aircrafts, based on other versions.

They only have:

- the Mig 35 Demo with the serial number 154, based on the older Mig 29M/M2 airframe
- the single seat with the serial number 961, based on the Mig 29K airframe
- the twin seat with the serial number 967, based on the Mig 29KUB airframe

The 154 can demonstrate features like the TVC nozzels, or the integrated LDP, while the 961 and 967 got a modified nose to integrate the bigger radar and made the tests with the AESA as well.

 

[tvsram1992]

So that is all you got out of my post?

Then let me break it down for you once again. Just like Saab had no production version of the Gripen E/F and has fielded the Gripen C, D and Demo (NG) to the trials, the Russians had no Mig 35 production version, just early demo aircrafts, based on other versions.

They only have:

- the Mig 35 Demo with the serial number 154, based on the older Mig 29M/M2 airframe
- the single seat with the serial number 961, based on the Mig 29K airframe
- the twin seat with the serial number 967, based on the Mig 29KUB airframe

The 154 can demonstrate features like the TVC nozzels, or the integrated LDP, while the 961 and 967 got a modified nose to integrate the bigger radar and made the tests with the AESA as well.

Even we have no Su30mki prototype when we ordered according to our requirements. We got Su30mk1/mk2 initially so that they can be modified to MKI version easily when the upgrades were complete. Russians thought of same with Mig35 but failed.

 

[sancho]

Even we have no Su30mki prototype when we ordered according to our requirements. We got Su30mk1/mk2 initially so that they can be modified to MKI version easily when the upgrades were complete. Russians thought of same with Mig35 but failed.

WE don't have MKI prototypes, Russia has:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/19170-su-30-family-5.html#post488222

 

[tvsram1992]

WE don't have MKI prototypes, Russia has:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/19170-su-30-family-5.html#post488222

Russia had prototypes before India is interested in?
Who gave them Indian,Israeli and French avionics and other combos?

 

[sancho]

Russia had prototypes before India is interested in?
Who gave them Indian,Israeli and French avionics and other combos?

Of the airframe, the radar, or the engines of course, western avionics were integrated later only and are only minor changes.