INDIAN MIG 21 BISON CRASHES

[SamantK]

I dont think i expected a senior member to react so violently so forgive what im about to spew as it might hurt you, seeing the response im quoting....

First of all lets take a look

Q.How much time has been delayed for JF-17

The answer is around a year, the reason being (yada yada yada ) as no one really cares about the reasons and all.Now the new time frame given is 2013 for Block II and post 2016 for Block III.The production of batch 1 has been completed and pilot conversion i s taking place and the 3rd sq. is soon expected to rise.

Q.How many years has LCA tejas been delayed?

I'll let indian defense review answer that for me..


The Tejas Fleet for the IAF – to be or not to be? » Indian Defence Review

From 1995-end of 2012 that makes around 17 years of delay, as of today (not counting the current year)

Lets quote from janes.

Tejas IOC pushed back to 2013


IAF LCA Tejas Induction Possible Only By Mid-2014 | ASIAN DEFENSE NEWS



LCA Tejas IOC-2 by year end | Defence

Another minor "delay" in IOC-2





Now, add 6 months here and you have active service only by 2015 as the article in Janes I quoted, by that time PAF would be some where in the middle to last phase in producing the Block II and "looking at Block III" as I have stated before.

( I said it in the context of "next in line" if you didn't get the point the first time seeing your response to Sir windjammer )

Now coming to your statement of MK-II please educate me as to how DRDO will manage,

-A new engine
-A new radar
-Some design changes
-New avionics and other upgrades

in less than 1 year ?? Seeing as the total delay for LCA MK-1 would be around 19 years if its inducted in the time frame I quoted..

Comparison of JFT and LCA is flawed, JFT is not developed by Pakistan whereas LCA is.. The path to LCA was fraught with lack of infra, sanctions to over ambitiousness..

 

[kurup]

Comparison of JFT and LCA is flawed, JFT is not developed by Pakistan whereas LCA is.. The path to LCA was fraught with lack of infra, sanctions to over ambitiousness..

Now you have stir up the hornet's nest .

 

[帅的一匹]

Rumor said Rafale deal had been lagged behind due to IAF pernicious corruption scandal erupt out.

 

[karan.1970]

BISONS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE MOST ADVANCED AND SECURE OF ALL MIG 21'S, YET THEY ARE CRASHING IN LARGE NUMBERS

When was the last one before this ?

 

[帅的一匹]

Now you have stir up the hornet's nest .

LCA is a mixed hot pot with components from all over the world. Pakistan could produce JF17 by its own, no sanction will be imposed. At least JF17 works, while LCA is staggering all the way to induction.

 

[karan.1970]

LCA is a mixed hot pot with components from all over the world. Pakistan could produce JF17 by its own, no sanction will be imposed.

Unless China decides to impose them.. Or Russia (only applicable in near future till JF 17 is powered by RD 93).. No one would have anticipated USA sanctioning Pakistan when the F 16 deal was made..

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

LCA is a mixed hot pot with components from all over the world. Pakistan could produce JF17 by its own, no sanction will be imposed. At least JF17 works, while LCA is staggering all the way to induction.

If someone want to compare JF-17 with Indian plane then SU-30MKI is the perfect example, now INdia make Engine , Airframe and Avionics in India itself while PAK, cant make anything other then J-17 in Pak.

India's Contribution in SU-30MKI is more then what PAK has in JF-17 has

 

[帅的一匹]

Lets wait to analyse the reasons for this one's crash. You're right Bison is the most secure and
powerful mig-21 variant out there. But tahts does not mean its immune to crashing. Its crash arte
is still very less compared to the older mig-21 variants.

IAF is left with nothing better than the second choice nowadays. Waiting Rafale to save your a$$

 

[Gessler]

IAF is left with nothing better than the second choice nowadays. Waiting Rafale to save your a$$

Tell that to PLANAF still using AL-31 engine for taking off Liaoning instead of WS-10 as seen on
J-15 prototypes. It seems your left with no choice except please russians by buying more and more
russian engines and phase out the failed WS-10.

 

[帅的一匹]

If someone want to compare JF-17 with Indian plane then SU-30MKI is the perfect example, now INdia make Engine , Airframe and Avionics in India itself while PAK, cant make anything other then J-17 in Pak.

India's Contribution in SU-30MKI is more then what PAK has in JF-17 has

Not really, we are comparing LCA and JF17 here. Why bring MKI IN?

Tell that to PLANAF still using AL-31 engine for taking off Liaoning instead of WS-10 as seen on
J-15 prototypes. It seems your left with no choice except please russians by buying more and more
russian engines and phase out the failed WS-10.

You are picky ones....

 

[karan.1970]

If someone want to compare JF-17 with Indian plane then SU-30MKI is the perfect example, now INdia make Engine , Airframe and Avionics in India itself while PAK, cant make anything other then J-17 in Pak.

India's Contribution in SU-30MKI is more then what PAK has in JF-17 has

Su 30 MKI is now manufactured (not assembled) totally in India including manufacture of the engines.. Where as Pakistan still only assembles the Chinese kits of the airframe and other parts with the Russian engines within Pakistan. If i remember right, the Pakistan target is to achieve 50% local manufacture of JF 17 by 2015.

 

[Gessler]

LCA is a mixed hot pot with components from all over the world. Pakistan could produce JF17 by its own, no sanction will be imposed. At least JF17 works, while LCA is staggering all the way to induction.

Comparing indigenous plane with JV plane.

Indian components in LCA are above 65-70%, only the engine is fully foreign, even the radar's back-end
components are designed in India.

JF-17 is a JV plane that is 85% chinese, 10% russian (engine) and 5% pakistani (some license-build
components). If you want to compare, compare with India's JV fighter Su-30MKI that is atleast 10-15% Indian.
Plus MKI's radar + engines are all made in Indian production lines.

First JF17 deliveries began in 2007, 5 years ago and still there are only 35 jets in service.

IAF has ~200 MKIs built from scratch in India (except some sensitive stuff imported), Pakistan only
assembles JF17 with semi-knock down kits received from China like this -

 

[帅的一匹]

That's called resembling, not indeginous!

 

[Icewolf]

@gessler

LOL!!

Even the appearance of Tejas looks the same as Mirage...

Believe me only 1-2% of Tejas is Indian, rest is European and Israeli!! Even India didnt do the paint job on that thing!. Everything is foreign in the Tejas.

As for JF-17 50% is Pakistani as it is assembled in PAC Karma and shipped to China for refurbishments.

Su-40MKI is 15% Indian? Please! All of it is made in Russia, and later its shipped to India for paint job... Indian engineers dont dare touch that jet without Russians around as we all know India's failed military expenditures.

 

[Gessler]

@gessler

LOL!!

Even the appearance of Tejas looks the same as Mirage...

Believe me only 1-2% of Tejas is Indian, rest is European and Israeli!! Even India didnt do the paint job on that thing!. Everything is foreign in the Tejas.

As for JF-17 50% is Pakistani as it is assembled in PAC Karma and shipped to China for refurbishments.

Su-40MKI is 15% Indian? Please! All of it is made in Russia, and later its shipped to India for paint job... Indian engineers dont dare touch that jet without Russians around as we all know India's failed military expenditures.

Plain troll. You got banned a couple of weeks ago for trolling and now back to business eh?

Show me what in LCA makes it looks like Mirage with some pics, if you dare!

JF17 is only assembled in Kamra in semi-knock down kits recieved in IL-78MKPs as shown above!
I am prepared to show you Indian components in MKI with links and I challenge you to show
me pakistani-deisgned components in JF17 with adequate proof, and when I proof, I don't mean
speculations!

What do you have to say above Kamra's pathetic assembling rate? 5 years and just 36 jets!

First MKI was receieved 10 years ago and we have 200 jets now! You're assembling rate is not even
50% of our production rate. Since 2010, most of MKI is manufactured in India from scratch (including
raw materials), I have told you people this months ago, but still you fail to learn