INDIAN MIG 21 BISON CRASHES

[Secur]

^

Bro these little kids with their twisted logics alone , let them live in their make.believe reality ...

He trolled himself on a Mig 21 Bison thread dragging unrelated matter into it ...

 

[Abingdonboy]

Since this is the Indian side, I wont try to hit any nerves by going to the roots of LCA which happens to be in the same time frame as the wright brothers jet itself (in the context that u put with the JF-17)

i.e

Mig-21 related to F-7 ---> SAbre II project related to F-7 ---->Super 7 related to Sabre II ------Super 7 related to JF-17

so therefore "JF-17 based on Mig-21"

Now let me bring in something even more fun, most of our Indian friends and even some of our pakistani members believe that JF-17 is influenced by the Project 33 or Mig-33.

Now this baby was dropped by the soviets due to economic reasons however the idea and work floated right about the time when F-16 was introduced.


Now, lets take your statement, and let me make it categorical, it doesn't even matter that its based on either of the jets, you may use it and post it over again and again, but the fact is this even the PT-01 and PT-04 of JF-17 were two different beasts so it doesn't really matter.

What matters is that PAF is now fielding a cost effective fighter with capabilities which give it a 2 generation gap over what its replacing, and whats more important is that the integration of new weapons etc is taking it place making it more potent while all your precious new design is getting new dates when to get FOC with continuous delays, By the time LCA MK-1 makes it to the IAF, PAF would be looking at the block III JF-17 (hopefully)

First SQD of LCA Mk-1 will be inducted by late 2013 or early 2014 and the LCA Mk-2 (which is what the IAF really wants with AESA and other advanced features) will begin induction in 2016. Given it is the end of 2012 now and the Block II JF-17 has yet to be inducted your talk of Block III being inducted by time LCA is inducted is nothing but arrogant jingostic hot air.


The proof will be in the pudding my friends.

 

[Windjammer]

First SQD of LCA Mk-1 will be inducted by late 2013 or early 2014 and the LCA Mk-2 (which is what the IAF really wants with AESA and other advanced features) will begin induction in 2016. Given it is the end of 2012 now and the Block II JF-17 has yet to be inducted your talk of Block III being inducted by time LCA is inducted is nothing but arrogant jingostic hot air.


The proof will be in the pudding my friends.

Did you even read your post after typing.....on one hand you are talking about LCA MK-2 being inducted by 2016, where as the first LCA squadron is no where on the horizon.....OTOH, the JF-17, which has been operational in squadron service for the last several years, doesn't seem to put wind in your sail. The induction fo Block-2 is reportedly imminent and as the gentleman said, PAF (Hopefully) would be looking at Block-3 in near future.!!......why is that so hard to digest. ?? or is it Cherry picking at it's best.

 

[killerx]

This is categorically untrue- for the age of the 21s the IAF is doing a commendable job of keeping the birds in be air and whilst there maybe crashes from time to time they are within acceptable numbers. And anyway the 21s are being replaced by MKIs (many mig-21 SQDs have already been completely converted to MKI SQDs) Rafales and LCAs. As such if any other unexpected delay crops up wrt the LCA the IAF will simply induct more Rafales or MKIs to make up the difference. The IAF has committed itself to a complete overhaul and has the funds to see this through to fruition- nothing will stop these effort now. No matter howuch you may wish.

mig 21 are not replaced my MKI the are in totally different category regarding the commendable job of Indian air force to keep these birds flying in what all air force do but he problem is the the inertial LCA was to replace the migs which not gonna happen until 2015 lets just say India should have a back up plan if the LCA takes longer that's why i suggested to replace them with third party jets no matter how much more money the India gov ha they still need to replace them invest in LCA and git it done in time and right by 2015

 

[killerx]

They already did that. It was called the M-MRCA, and rafales won. The stated reasons for the MRCA purchase when the idea was first floated was precisely that.

yes yes they did but i think LCA project is an diversion i think indain air force is might replace the Jaguar with F35 good option

 

[abdulbarijan]

First SQD of LCA Mk-1 will be inducted by late 2013 or early 2014 and the LCA Mk-2 (which is what the IAF really wants with AESA and other advanced features) will begin induction in 2016. Given it is the end of 2012 now and the Block II JF-17 has yet to be inducted your talk of Block III being inducted by time LCA is inducted is nothing but arrogant jingostic hot air.


The proof will be in the pudding my friends.

I dont think i expected a senior member to react so violently so forgive what im about to spew as it might hurt you, seeing the response im quoting....

First of all lets take a look

Q.How much time has been delayed for JF-17

The answer is around a year, the reason being (yada yada yada ) as no one really cares about the reasons and all.Now the new time frame given is 2013 for Block II and post 2016 for Block III.The production of batch 1 has been completed and pilot conversion i s taking place and the 3rd sq. is soon expected to rise.

Q.How many years has LCA tejas been delayed?

I'll let indian defense review answer that for me..

In 1983, DRDO obtained permission to initiate a programme for the design and development of a Light Combat Aircraft with the initial flight in 1990 and entry into service by 1995.

The Tejas Fleet for the IAF – to be or not to be? » Indian Defence Review

From 1995-end of 2012 that makes around 17 years of delay, as of today (not counting the current year)

Lets quote from janes.

(LCA) has been further delayed to mid-2013, postponing its active squadron service with the Indian Air Force (IAF) to 2015, if not beyond.

http://www.janes.com/products/janes/defence-security-report.aspx?id=1065971024

Air Staff Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne said the IOC-2 is expected only by mid-2012 and the final operational clearance could be scheduled only two years after that.

IAF LCA Tejas Induction Possible Only By Mid-2014 | ASIAN DEFENSE NEWS

IOC-2 will be the sea-trials. All the requirements for IOC-2 is expected to fulfilled by the end of this year.

LCA Tejas IOC-2 by year end | Defence

Another minor "delay" in IOC-2

The additional 20 aircraft will be built to the Final Operational Clearance (FOC) standards

At the time of IOC, the Tejas was expected to get its FOC by December 2012, after which HAL was to start production at the rate of 10 aircraft a year.

The first squadron was to be delivered to the IAF by the end of 2014 and the second squadron by 2016.

On October 3, 2011, addressing a press conference, IAF Chief NAK Browne said FOC would be delayed by a year.

On November 18, 2011 the IAF Chief said that the Tejas is expected to get its FOC in the middle of 2014.

Now, add 6 months here and you have active service only by 2015 as the article in Janes I quoted, by that time PAF would be some where in the middle to last phase in producing the Block II and "looking at Block III" as I have stated before.

( I said it in the context of "next in line" if you didn't get the point the first time seeing your response to Sir windjammer )

Now coming to your statement of MK-II please educate me as to how DRDO will manage,

-A new engine
-A new radar
-Some design changes
-New avionics and other upgrades

in less than 1 year ?? Seeing as the total delay for LCA MK-1 would be around 19 years if its inducted in the time frame I quoted..

 

[Abingdonboy]

Did you even read your post after typing.....on one hand you are talking about LCA MK-2 being inducted by 2016, where as the first LCA squadron is no where on the horizon.....OTOH, the JF-17, which has been operational in squadron service for the last several years, doesn't seem to put wind in your sail. The induction fo Block-2 is reportedly imminent and as the gentleman said, PAF (Hopefully) would be looking at Block-3 in near future.!!......why is that so hard to digest. ?? or is it Cherry picking at it's best.

Mate did you even read the post? The guy was saying by the time the LCA MK-1 is inducted which WILL begin to happen within the next 15 months the Block-III of the JFT will be in service which simply isn't true. As it stands the block-II is only "imminent" and that could mean we are looking at another year+ to see a block II in service. So he is categorically wrong.

mig 21 are not replaced my MKI the are in totally different category regarding the commendable job of Indian air force to keep these birds flying in what all air force do but he problem is the the inertial LCA was to replace the migs which not gonna happen until 2015 lets just say India should have a back up plan if the LCA takes longer that's why i suggested to replace them with third party jets no matter how much more money the India gov ha they still need to replace them invest in LCA and git it done in time and right by 2015

No mate- LISTEN, MKIs ARE replacing Mig-21s in IAF service(wrt Mig-21 SQDs converting to MKI SQDs)- this is an undeniable FACT. Yes the roles are are different for he two fighters but this is happening.The same course of action is to be taken with the Rafales(they will replace Mig-21s). As such by 2015/17 the mig-21s and mig-27s will be complety out of service with the IAF. And you seem unable grasp the fact that the LCA's delay has almost NO bearing on the Mig-21 phasing out process- the LCAs will simy be the cherry on the IAF's cake.

 

[killerx]

First SQD of LCA Mk-1 will be inducted by late 2013 or early 2014 and the LCA Mk-2 (which is what the IAF really wants with AESA and other advanced features) will begin induction in 2016. Given it is the end of 2012 now and the Block II JF-17 has yet to be inducted your talk of Block III being inducted by time LCA is inducted is nothing but arrogant jingostic hot air.


The proof will be in the pudding my friends.

yes two years till 2014 the first LCA will be inducted buy that time the current ratio the PAF would have 150 at least not to mention we have 49 operational and 50 china will built at no cost and 100 by 2013 at that rate the jf17 will replace the half of the F7 and mirages to the question regarding the thread is the MIG 21 will be still in operation with indian air force in large no waiting to be replaced by LCA

 

[Secur]

Mate did you even read the post? The guy was saying by the time the LCA MK-1 is inducted which WILL begin to happen within the next 15 months the Block-III of the JFT will be in service which simply isn't true. As it stands the block-II is only "imminent" and that could mean we are looking at another year+ to see a block II in service. So he is categorically wrong.

I request all to keep unrelated things out of this thread as it will invite a troll fest ...

A correction " Various sources say that induction of LCA will only be possible after 2015 when it gets FOC " ... I will happy to post links if you want but the news was very well reported here ... So 15 Months time table just isn't true , you are planning to replace Bisons with MKI's and Rafales ... Think again , are you replacing them or merely trying to get close to the sanctioned strength of 39.5 squadrons the numbers that your planners think are necessary to maintain air superiority over adversaries ? ... Different aircrafts have different roles ... Why doesn't US replace all of A10's with Raptor ?

 

[killerx]

self delete

 

[eddie01]

Get rid of those old Mig in your fleet, get some new one like J7BGI.

every thing that starts with " J" seems JUNK in the context of CHina... series of J15 J17 JF 12, 13, 14, 17 and now J7 ( a , b , c, d, e .f . g ). first correct the series of your JUNK Fighters.

 

[Windjammer]

Mate did you even read the post? The guy was saying by the time the LCA MK-1 is inducted which WILL begin to happen within the next 15 months the Block-III of the JFT will be in service which simply isn't true. As it stands the block-II is only "imminent" and that could mean we are looking at another year+ to see a block II in service. So he is categorically wrong.

This is what was quoted.

By the time LCA MK-1 makes it to the IAF, PAF would be looking at the block III JF-17 (hopefully)

I have highlighted the term purposely. You see my friend, one could also argue that while you are claiming the LCA to be operational by the end of 2013....where as those with contacts and know how report other wise.
As i did say else where it's never wise just to shoot in the dark.

Rs 25k cr Tejas won?t be ready before 2015 - Times Of India

 

[killerx]

Mate did you even read the post? The guy was saying by the time the LCA MK-1 is inducted which WILL begin to happen within the next 15 months the Block-III of the JFT will be in service which simply isn't true. As it stands the block-II is only "imminent" and that could mean we are looking at another year+ to see a block II in service. So he is categorically wrong.



No mate- LISTEN, MKIs ARE replacing Mig-21s in IAF service(wrt Mig-21 SQDs converting to MKI SQDs)- this is an undeniable FACT. Yes the roles are are different for he two fighters but this is happening.The same course of action is to be taken with the Rafales(they will replace Mig-21s). As such by 2015/17 the mig-21s and mig-27s will be complety out of service with the IAF. And you seem unable grasp the fact that the LCA's delay has almost NO bearing on the Mig-21 phasing out process- the LCAs will simy be the cherry on the IAF's cake.

i thought the indian MKI where to counter the Chinese MKK and the MARCA was to fill up the gap between the MKI and the MIGS 29 it seems to me they are mig 29 replacements or india planes to buy mig35 of built new ones to replace the old ones each fighter jset has its own life span when it ends you either replace them or build new in place of them so leave the raffle and MKI out if it

 

[Abingdonboy]

I dont think i expected a senior member to react so violently so forgive what im about to spew as it might hurt you, seeing the response im quoting....

First of all lets take a look

Q.How much time has been delayed for JF-17

The answer is around a year, the reason being (yada yada yada ) as no one really cares about the reasons and all.Now the new time frame given is 2013 for Block II and post 2016 for Block III.The production of batch 1 has been completed and pilot conversion i s taking place and the 3rd sq. is soon expected to rise.

Q.How many years has LCA tejas been delayed?

I'll let indian defense review answer that for me..


The Tejas Fleet for the IAF – to be or not to be? » Indian Defence Review

From 1995-end of 2012 that makes around 17 years of delay, as of today (not counting the current year)

Lets quote from janes.

Tejas IOC pushed back to 2013


IAF LCA Tejas Induction Possible Only By Mid-2014 | ASIAN DEFENSE NEWS



LCA Tejas IOC-2 by year end | Defence

Another minor "delay" in IOC-2





Now, add 6 months here and you have active service only by 2015 as the article in Janes I quoted, by that time PAF would be some where in the middle to last phase in producing the Block II and "looking at Block III" as I have stated before.

( I said it in the context of "next in line" if you didn't get the point the first time seeing your response to Sir windjammer )

Now coming to your statement of MK-II please educate me as to how DRDO will manage,

-A new engine
-A new radar
-Some design changes
-New avionics and other upgrades

in less than 1 year ?? Seeing as the total delay for LCA MK-1 would be around 19 years if its inducted in the time frame I quoted..

My friend please don't go down the cliche "LCA delayed since forever" route. Yes HAL/ADA/DRDO were a bit optimistic in their planning but then they didn't factor in crippling sanctions and such huge fincail constraints not to mention ever changing requirements from the IAF. Given the climate in which they developed the LCA it has to be said they've done an incredible job. And the LCA that will be inducted shortly will be dramatically more capable than the mere Mig-21 replacement than was initially planned.

 

[killerx]

every thing that starts with " J" seems JUNK in the context of CHina... series of J15 J17 JF 12, 13, 14, 17 and now J7 ( a , b , c, d, e .f . g ). first correct the series of your JUNK Fighters.

stop trolling mate

My friend please don't go down the cliche "LCA delayed since forever" route. Yes HAL/ADA/DRDO were a bit optimistic in their planning but then they didn't factor in crippling sanctions and such huge fincail constraints not to mention ever changing requirements from the IAF. Given the climate in which they developed the LCA it has to be said they've done an incredible job. And the LCA that will be inducted shortly will be dramatically more capable than the mere Mig-21 replacement than was initially planned.

then you must admire PAF efforts we did quite will after the sanction and even with such small budget